posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

This was my point.  The student body at Penn is almost 20% Jewish and the alumni base is higher than that.  If Jewish members of the Penn community don’t like what’s being said there, they are in a strong position to affect change.  Penn is not an antisemitic environment.  Some people that go there clearly are antisemitic, but so what.  Outside of making a lot of noise, they have no substantive influence.

But clearly if it wasn't an anti-semitic atmosphere she wouldn't have been pressured and resigning...

And you're assuming she's more Jewish than woke, which is both ignorant and racist.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Please point it out for me.

The part where you assumed a large percentage minority dictates policy.

Or the part where you assumed the ethnicity of a university President would dictate certain policies.

And finally equating "tolerating anti-semitism" with failure to condemn calls to kill Jews.

Do you honestly believe if a white nationalist said these things about black people that he wouldn't have been expelled minutes later?  And you wouldn't be wrong, but that's why your equivocating shows inherent bias.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I’m aware of them of the protests.  I don’t look at social media.  I don’t excuse anything someone says about genocide.  But I don’t believe the Ivy League schools are bastions of antisemitism.

Again, then you haven’t paid attention. Studies have already shown that on these campuses 73% of Jews have witnessed antisemitism since October, and over 50% now do not feel safe on campus due to actions and statements being made.

posted by gut

But clearly if it wasn't an anti-semitic atmosphere she wouldn't have been pressured and resigning...

And you're assuming she's more Jewish than woke, which is both ignorant and racist.

All I am saying is this congressional committee testimony was more about a congresswoman getting her 15 minutes under the guise of doing something meaningful.  I’m not assuming this woman at Penn is Jewish either.  My point about these woke Ivy League schools is that everyone knows they’re woke. They have been for decades.  Who cares what a bunch of nutty ass students on their campus say.  I also don’t see any reason to worry about an Ivy League campus being a threatening place for a Jewish student.  That is comical to even write.

posted by jmog

Again, then you haven’t paid attention. Studies have already shown that on these campuses 73% of Jews have witnessed antisemitism since October, and over 50% now do not feel safe on campus due to actions and statements being made.

Can you ever engage on here without saying something pompous?  I’ve paid attention.  Just because someone sees something differently than you doesn’t mean their I’ll-informed.  When you’re positive you’re right every time, you need to examine your simplistic view of the world.

posted by gut

The part where you assumed a large percentage minority dictates policy.

Or the part where you assumed the ethnicity of a university President would dictate certain policies.

And finally equating "tolerating anti-semitism" with failure to condemn calls to kill Jews.

Do you honestly believe if a white nationalist said these things about black people that he wouldn't have been expelled minutes later?  And you wouldn't be wrong, but that's why your equivocating shows inherent bias.

I don’t assume they dictate policy.  But if you think Jewish students, faculty and alumni do not have an outsized influence at Harvard, MIT, and Penn, then you don’t know very much about those schools.

posted by jmog

Again, then you haven’t paid attention. Studies have already shown that on these campuses 73% of Jews have witnessed antisemitism since October, and over 50% now do not feel safe on campus due to actions and statements being made.

Oh so now jmog all of the sudden believes racism is a real thing love to see it 

posted by geeblock

Oh so now jmog all of the sudden believes racism is a real thing love to see it 

I'm not sure I've ever read such a denial. Can you please point me to the posts so that I can mock him?

As an aside: right now I'd be willing to bet that there are more people at these schools chanting along with "from the river to the sea" than there are people calling for an extermination of black people. 

Is the v-bookie still a thing here?

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

All I am saying is this congressional committee testimony was more about a congresswoman getting her 15 minutes under the guise of doing something meaningful.  I’m not assuming this woman at Penn is Jewish either.  My point about these woke Ivy League schools is that everyone knows they’re woke. They have been for decades.  Who cares what a bunch of nutty ass students on their campus say.  I also don’t see any reason to worry about an Ivy League campus being a threatening place for a Jewish student.  That is comical to even write.

I would say getting at least one of these leftists fired (thus far) is meaningful.  

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I don’t assume they dictate policy.  But if you think Jewish students, faculty and alumni do not have an outsized influence at Harvard, MIT, and Penn, then you don’t know very much about those schools.

No way you can say I was pompous and then post this. Good lord zero self aw

posted by jmog

No way you can say I was pompous and then post this. Good lord zero self aw

Fair enough.  My phrasing was not good.  My point continues to be that Harvard, Penn and MIT are not hostile towards Jewish people despite what some vocal protesters say and woke administrators talking in circles. 

posted by QuakerOats

I would say getting at least one of these leftists fired (thus far) is meaningful.  

Do you think her replacement will be John Birch Society type?

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Do you think her replacement will be John Birch Society type?

Lol, he's just falling into the typical politard trap of "They fired a member of the opposition party; this HAS to be a win!!!!" that doesn't take into effect things such as who will be the replacement because I'm guessing the odds of the new Penn prez having political views that he agrees with are extremely low. 

Kind of like when the Ds were running victory laps due to the House Rs being in shambles, unable to agree on a name to get behind for the speaker race. And then the Rs got together to elect some crazy overly-religious dipshit who thinks he's the new Moses or some such stupidity. And all a person can say is, "Good job, guys, you decided to go all-in in the short-term 'these people are SOOOOO dysfunctional' win and rode that horse until it was too late.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Fair enough.  My phrasing was not good.  My point continues to be that Harvard, Penn and MIT are not hostile towards Jewish people despite what some vocal protesters say and woke administrators talking in circles. 

Aside from my first “pompous” sentence above, my stats are from surveys and studies done since October attacks.  That is direct evidence against your stance.

posted by jmog

Aside from my first “pompous” sentence above, my stats are from surveys and studies done since October attacks.  That is direct evidence against your stance.

If you want to believe those schools have an antisemitism problem, you go right ahead.  It’s an irrelevant story to most people since it doesn’t affect them even indirectly and never will.  I don’t believe those places are antisemitic in the least.  Calling a bunch of woke administrators up to capital hill so a congresswoman can pontificate on righteousness is the epitome of using the media to distract the populace from anything remotely impactful.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

If you want to believe those schools have an antisemitism problem, you go right ahead.  It’s an irrelevant story to most people since it doesn’t affect them even indirectly and never will.  I don’t believe those places are antisemitic in the least.  Calling a bunch of woke administrators up to capital hill so a congresswoman can pontificate on righteousness is the epitome of using the media to distract the populace from anything remotely impactful.

So statistical studies/surveys vs your feelings  got it.

I think that “ pompous” was just about right.

posted by Devils Advocate

I think that “ pompous” was just about right.

Possibly, but really hard to take serious when his next post was just as "pompous".

"But if you think Jewish students, faculty and alumni do not have an outsized influence at Harvard, MIT, and Penn, then you don’t know very much about those schools."

posted by jmog

So statistical studies/surveys vs your feelings  got it.

I don't know anything about your surveys.  I will once again state my point: This congressional testimony was a huge soft ball at bat for this congresswoman.  She called up three woke administrators from Ivy League and similar schools.  Surprising no one, they talked in circles when she asked them about their schools' tolerance for hate speech against Jews.  The predicted reaction and outrage ensued.  Yet lost in this is the fact that these three schools have a long history of having a large Jewish population in their student bodies, on their faculty and in their alumni base.  They have each been historical bastions of Jewish intellectual life.  

Despite some idiots chanting about "from river to sea for Palestine" or whatever they like to say, these schools are hardly antisemetic.  This was a standard attention grab by yet another worthless member of congress who has a track record of accomplishing nothing. 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I don't know anything about your surveys.  I will once again state my point: This congressional testimony was a huge soft ball at bat for this congresswoman.  She called up three woke administrators from Ivy League and similar schools.  Surprising no one, they talked in circles when she asked them about their schools' tolerance for hate speech against Jews.  The predicted reaction and outrage ensued.  Yet lost in this is the fact that these three schools have a long history of having a large Jewish population in their student bodies, on their faculty and in their alumni base.  They have each been historical bastions of Jewish intellectual life.  

Despite some idiots chanting about "from river to sea for Palestine" or whatever they like to say, these schools are hardly antisemetic.  This was a standard attention grab by yet another worthless member of congress who has a track record of accomplishing nothing. 

https://www.adl.org/resources/report/campus-antisemitism-study-campus-climate-and-after-hamas-terrorist-attacks

70+% have seen anti-sematic since Oct 7th.

The percent of Jews that feel comfortable has dropped from 64% down to 39%.

So you still want to say its not a problem... 

I think the biggest issue here is what these edifices of "higher learning" are going to do about what is considered hate speech. Because right now it seems to be that calling for the extermination of a people is not hate speech, but calling somebody the N-word is.

Personally, I'd much rather somebody call me a mean name than I'd like for them to call for my death. I don't know... something about levels of severity.

At any rate, I think society has to get a firm grasp of what hate speech really is, because the redefining of words that has been going on has done nobody any favors.

posted by jmog

https://www.adl.org/resources/report/campus-antisemitism-study-campus-climate-and-after-hamas-terrorist-attacks

70+% have seen anti-sematic since Oct 7th.

The percent of Jews that feel comfortable has dropped from 64% down to 39%.

So you still want to say its not a problem... 

I know this is always your MO - I believe your engineer, so I get your inclination to quantify every last topic.  Despite this ADL survey, I stand by my opinion.  This is a nothing story that has been predictably stoked to keep the outrage machine running.

posted by CenterBHSFan

I think the biggest issue here is what these edifices of "higher learning" are going to do about what is considered hate speech. Because right now it seems to be that calling for the extermination of a people is not hate speech, but calling somebody the N-word is.

Personally, I'd much rather somebody call me a mean name than I'd like for them to call for my death. I don't know... something about levels of severity.

At any rate, I think society has to get a firm grasp of what hate speech really is, because the redefining of words that has been going on has done nobody any favors.

The biggest issue here is you have two groups of people vying for the same shitty piece of desert because each believes their own God favors them over others.  The extreme Palestinians want the Israelis wiped out and the extreme Jews want the Palestinians wiped out.  The moderates on both sides are of no help because they essentially legitimize the zealots by following a cafeteria version of the same twisted faith, thereby sending the message that the zealots are simply believers of legitimate world views who happen to follow each a “little too enthusiastically”.  A simple reading of the Torah or Quran will show the zealots are actually following their respective faiths pretty much the way they were laid out.

Until we admit that this entire ordeal is simply two religions reaching their potential, we’ll continue to pretend that there is somehow a right and a wrong side to this.  Of course, and in spite of the noise about Ivy League presidents/protests, the US is entirely behind one side.  As a result we will continue to pay the harsh price anyone does who comes between fanatical believers and their heavenly mission.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I know this is always your MO - I believe your engineer, so I get your inclination to quantify every last topic.  Despite this ADL survey, I stand by my opinion.  This is a nothing story that has been predictably stoked to keep the outrage machine running.

They want it to be a non-story, but the withholding of billions of dollars in future donations is a story, as is the the enlightenment of those who may not have realized the depths to which these radical Marxist 'organizations' have fallen. 

posted by QuakerOats

They want it to be a non-story, but the withholding of billions of dollars in future donations is a story, as is the the enlightenment of those who may not have realized the depths to which these radical Marxist 'organizations' have fallen. 

In 365 days, this will all be long forgotten.  I think you know that deep inside.