posted by Spock

 

The money that is going to corporations today is for employee retention and other things that will trickle down.  UNlike TARP by Obama/Biden that companies did shit like stock buy backs and sock away in CEO slush funds.

 

Its different now

Oh sweet Moses!!!

I'm actually impressed at how much nonsense you fit into so few words.
 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Plus his daughter is heavily involved. She and Jared went to the Hunter Biden School of Daddy Got Me a Cool Job.

lol'd

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

The people that risk their lives and there family's welfare to get here are generally not looking for "free shit". 

But they're getting it more than those that deserve it.

And to reply to your previous paragraph, much different times now. As was mentioned, didn't have a Welfare system when our ancestors came here. I wasn't around when my ancestors came over but, from all accounts, the immigrants that came over were hard workers not a bunch of freeloaders.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

TARP was Bush bro...

Also, we are not sure how this money will get filtered out, Trump is pretty much canning all the IGs that would provide oversight. He also is not keen on the idea of Congressional oversight on how these funds will be dispersed. 

TARP was rammed through right at the end of Bush presidency.....Biden actually over saw the distribution.

https://www.thebalance.com/tarp-bailout-program-3305895

Here is a pretty good analysis of TARP......basically, the TARP money was used to prop up big corporations FOR stock buy backs and other crap.  It also was a money grab that allowed the GOVERNMENT to make money on our money.  Anything that COULD have trickled down to the the US taxpayer was things like refy mortgage programs but the banks were only generous to some and not all.

This bailout has trillions that are coming in your mailbox and oversight on things like stock buy backs.

posted by Spock

TARP was rammed through right at the end of Bush presidency.....Biden actually over saw the distribution.

TARP was a loan, paid back with interest.  The taxpayer made money on that, so I've never understood why it's derisively referred to as a "bailout".  Loaning money at a profit is, as far as I know, the complete opposite of a handout.

posted by BR1986FB

But they're getting it more than those that deserve it.

And to reply to your previous paragraph, much different times now. As was mentioned, didn't have a Welfare system when our ancestors came here. I wasn't around when my ancestors came over but, from all accounts, the immigrants that came over were hard workers not a bunch of freeloaders.

You're combining things that have no causal relationship.  Being an illegal doesn't correlate to being lazy.

And frankly, have you seen some of "our own?"  I'd argue we've got a disproportionate number of lazy asses that were born here.  You said "they're getting it more than those that deserve it."  Who deserves any of it, and based on what?  Winning the genetic lottery and being born to parents who happened to be in a particular location when you came sliding out of the birth canal isn't some intrinsic blessing on society.  To think otherwise is textbook entitlement.

Instead of using a broken welfare system to justify a broken immigration system, maybe our efforts would be better spent getting rid of the broken welfare system.  If we do that, anyone who wants to come in and work hard isn't a burden on the economy, but anyone who would be looking to come in for free stuff wouldn't get it.  At that point, all are free to come, but none are entitled to the labor of others.

posted by BR1986FB

But they're getting it more than those that deserve it.

And to reply to your previous paragraph, much different times now. As was mentioned, didn't have a Welfare system when our ancestors came here. I wasn't around when my ancestors came over but, from all accounts, the immigrants that came over were hard workers not a bunch of freeloaders.

Your anecdotal stories about how hard our ancestors worked are fine, but not relevant. I'm sure when our ancestors came, there were a lot of hard working immigrants. Guess what, a lot of these "illegals" are hard working too. I've got all sorts of anecdotal stories about that.  Back when our ancestors came, with most being hard working and decent, there were also some criminals and bums that came too. Some were maybe freeloaders who didn't have the option of public assistance, but perhaps took advantage of other freebies from churches, charities or other organizations. Similarly today, some Hispanic immigrants are bums or criminals and there are no doubt free loaders. But the vast majority are people who have risked more than most Americans can even imagine to be here. They didn't do all that to collect food stamps and call it at day. They bust their ass at hard, dirty, hot, tough jobs so they can make something for their family. And most have families with higher rates of steady marriage than the American public. 

You can debate who gets handouts, but I think you should not fall into the trap of writing off these people because they didn't follow some bullshit rules about getting in here that were only made up during the last 30-50 years. I'll take them anyway over the work ethically challenged segments of our society. They are what America is about. 

posted by Spock

TARP was rammed through right at the end of Bush presidency.....Biden actually over saw the distribution.

LOL 

The distribution ... per the terms passed and signed in 2008.

Don't try to pass the buck just because you were wrong.  TARP was the baby of Bush, Paulson, and Bernanke.

posted by Spock

https://www.thebalance.com/tarp-bailout-program-3305895

 

Here is a pretty good analysis of TARP......

LOL, no.  It IS a good summary, but you misunderstood what was meant by "stock buybacks".

The "loans" were mostly structured as a Treasury purchase of preferred stock, with high dividends.  The intention was the banks would exercise a buyback within 5 years (again, it was mostly a liquidity crisis, "technical" default as opposed to an actual failed business).  That's how the govt guaranteed their profit.  "Preferred stock" is more like debt than equity.

Those funds were used to restructure balance sheets, which usually refers exclusively to debt.  TARP funds were probably not used to buyback common stock from the market.  I don't imagine that was allowed, but it's conceivable banks who didn't need the money but were forced to take it bought back their common stock at deep discounts, and used the proceeds to eventually pay back the TARP loan, with interest.

Regardless of anyones opinion,..,,  The TARP benefited big business and DC.  It never made it to your pocket like Trumps will soon.  The economy post TARP was stale for a decade.   I bet this "bailout' brings us back in 6 months

posted by Spock

Regardless of anyones opinion,..,,  The TARP benefited big business and DC.  It never made it to your pocket like Trumps will soon.  The economy post TARP was stale for a decade.   I bet this "bailout' brings us back in 6 months

LOL

Keep doubling down all you want.

The economy wasn't stale.  And it wasn't Obama's or Biden's brain child.  These aren't opinions; these are documented, verifiable facts.

posted by O-Trap

LOL

Keep doubling down all you want.

The economy wasn't stale.  And it wasn't Obama's or Biden's brain child.  These aren't opinions; these are documented, verifiable facts.

In CC's world, something being a documented, verifiable fact means about 1/10th as much as his personal, unverifiable opinion and about 1/100th as much as a random kook's rambling diatribe on any far-right blog site like Breitbart.

posted by Heretic

In CC's world, something being a documented, verifiable fact means about 1/10th as much as his personal, unverifiable opinion and about 1/100th as much as a random kook's rambling diatribe on any far-right blog site like Breitbart.

I lol'd

This thread went off the rails. Y’all know the Kroger guy works for a billion dollar Corp tho right? And just to reiterate, the PPP program was only available to companies with under 500 employees. 

posted by Spock

Regardless of anyones opinion,..,,  The TARP benefited big business and DC.  It never made it to your pocket like Trumps will soon.  The economy post TARP was stale for a decade.   I bet this "bailout' brings us back in 6 months

Wait a minute.  You realize that TARP is basically trickle down economics - so why do you hate Reagan so much?

posted by gut

Wait a minute.  You realize that TARP is basically trickle down economics - so why do you hate Reagan so much?

TARP didnt trickle anywhere and it had no mandates in it that corporations do anything but buyback their stocks.

posted by Spock

TARP didnt trickle anywhere and it had no mandates in it that corporations do anything but buyback their stocks.

Not sure you understand "trickle down economics"....TARP stopped the liquidity crisis that was tanking the economy - seems like that would have benefited everyone.  Also, TARP saved several more banks (remember, Lehman and Bear were already gone) from failing - which would have benefited all their employees.  TARP also included GM and Chrysler, who couldn't access capital markets to avoid bankrupcty - seems like that saved the jobs of thousands of first, second and third tier automotive workers.

So you're wrong that TARP only benefited big business.  And you're wrong that TARP was a handout.  Also, the "mandate" was to buy back the stock that was issued for the funds.  That's prototypical financial market stuff, except here you had the federal govt stepping in to be that buyer because there were no buyers in a liquidity crunch.  TARP was the federal govt acting as the bank-of-last resort (more accurately, given the money made, the world's largest hedge fund), as they should do in a financial crisis.  None of your characterizations of TARP are accurate.

ICL—what is the point of your post? I think we all know Kroger is a large corporation. That wasn’t the point. The point was if some money goes to grocery store employees who are putting themselves at huge risks to make sure we can all grocery shop, then I’m all for it. 

posted by gut

Not sure you understand "trickle down economics"....TARP stopped the liquidity crisis that was tanking the economy - seems like that would have benefited everyone.  Also, TARP saved several more banks (remember, Lehman and Bear were already gone) from failing - which would have benefited all their employees.  TARP also included GM and Chrysler, who couldn't access capital markets to avoid bankrupcty - seems like that saved the jobs of thousands of first, second and third tier automotive workers.

So you're wrong that TARP only benefited big business.  And you're wrong that TARP was a handout.  Also, the "mandate" was to buy back the stock that was issued for the funds.  That's prototypical financial market stuff, except here you had the federal govt stepping in to be that buyer because there were no buyers in a liquidity crunch.  TARP was the federal govt acting as the bank-of-last resort (more accurately, given the money made, the world's largest hedge fund), as they should do in a financial crisis.  None of our characterizations of TARP are accurate.

Your explanation is good. But I think CC's problem isn't the economics. It's that he perceived TARP as "Obama's", therefore failed. Even though it's been pointed out to him that this isn't accurate, he'd already thrown his dart. He won't be taking it back. 

I hope this present CARES (or whatever it's called) helps. 2008 and now are different, so different solutions were needed. None thing both have in common is no one knew how late ng they'd last when the federal government stepped in. 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

...But I think CC's problem isn't the economics. It's that he perceived TARP as "Obama's", therefore failed.

LOL....very astute observation

posted by SportsAndLady

ICL—what is the point of your post? I think we all know Kroger is a large corporation. That wasn’t the point. The point was if some money goes to grocery store employees who are putting themselves at huge risks to make sure we can all grocery shop, then I’m all for it. 

Bc everyone bitches about big corps getting money, but they’re also the same people who employ a shit ton of people. I fully understand there is bullshit in politics, but just screaming about billionaires getting money is worthless. 

posted by iclfan2

Bc everyone bitches about big corps getting money, but they’re also the same people who employ a shit ton of people. I fully understand there is bullshit in politics, but just screaming about billionaires getting money is worthless. 

Who’s bitching about corporations getting money? So confused. You’re just saying things that no one disagrees with lol 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

It is not just Hispanics, but everyone. The Green card/ visa system is so overloaded and burdensome that wait times are years for people. The people with the worst wait time is actually India.  

It is easy to say go to the back of the line, but harder to say that when the back of the line may take 10-20 years. 

I remember this article from December 2019 about how screwed up the system is. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/the-employment-green-card-backlog-tops-800000-most-of-them-indian-a-solution-is-elusive/2019/12/17/55def1da-072f-11ea-8292-c46ee8cb3dce_story.html

We all agree the immigration system is screwed up, we just cannot agree on a solution. Meanwhile, millions are people are in limbo and have to do what they can do survive. 

 

And yet some people want to hand them our health care and beg them to change the earth’s climate.

LMAO

posted by QuakerOats

 

 

 

And yet some people want to hand them our health care and beg them to change the earth’s climate.

 

 

LMAO

What the hell are you talking about?

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

What the hell are you talking about?

Referencing the ‘screwed up immigration system’ as mentioned above.  Politicians have had 30 years to fix the system – they have done jackshit.  And yet, some people want to hand these politicians their health care and expect them to solve climate change.   Hilarious.