posted by kizer permanente

Yeah and look at state level voting... it's down across the country too from 2020. Do you think the Dems rigged every state too? Why didn't they do better in the state level if they were going thru that effort?

Yeah IMO the most plausible outcome regarding 2020 is that the Dems just had massive, massive turnout.  The "beat Trump" message was really strong, and Donald didn't help himself.  At that point he was angry, on the attack 24/7, not great.   I also think he's better chasing the belt than he is as the defending champion.  

posted by kizer permanente

Yeah and look at state level voting... it's down across the country too from 2020. Do you think the Dems rigged every state too? Why didn't they do better in the state level if they were going thru that effort?

Take another Xanax. I have never said the Dems rigged anything 4 years ago. I just countered your statement on Trump vote totals.

posted by kizer permanente

Trumps votes were also 10 million  higher in 2020. Do you really need someone to explain participation to you or nah? 3rd election with Trump vs a candidate that didn't win a primary. You thought participation would be higher?

No, Trump had 74 million in '20; and currently has 72 million and will likely end up around 74 million. 

Can we ask again, are you able to explain extreme deviation from normal in '20 for the dem candidate. 

posted by jmog

Trump is going to end up pretty close to the same number of votes in 2024 as he did in 2020, +/- a couple million. The Ds dropped right back down to 66m ish  

After going up 11ishM from 2016 to 2020 -- which was when the Ds had the huge bump in votes.

Which would mean, if cheating is an issue, that Biden cheated better than Trump in 2020. Then Harris didn't cheat to go back to pre-Biden numbers, while Trump maintained his cheating.

OR, it more likely came down to...

1. Trump was pretty unpopular outside his base at the end of his term and also had a ton of heat (whether correctly or incorrectly) over his COVID response, which the Ds were able to take advantage of to get the largest turnout of an election that had a historically huge turnout because way too many people used their months of lockdown to really devour any and all poli-shit.

2. And those people didn't bother with this one because of any number of factors ranging from Biden wasn't remotely what his voters were hoping to get and had popularity numbers as bad or worse than Trump's TO Biden's failing mental state TO him being abruptly replaced by a VP who had been amazingly unpopular when she tried for the presidential nomination in '20 TO how Kamala had no real answer after her immediate surge ended and reality set in.

3. And credit to Trump: He lived up to the "Teflon Don" nickname in so many different ways, as he was able to dodge and avoid shit that would tank almost anyone else. Basically ignored all the talk about his declining mental state and when that turned into "he's getting too tired to campaign", he picked things up and was doing multiple stops a day leading into the election. He crossed the finish line doing what he had to do in order to win; I don't think Kamala can say that.

In short, the way 2020 went down, a lot more people were fired up and wanted their voice heard. In 2024, most of those people were just numb and didn't GAF because it wasn't like doing so magically changed anything for the better.

I'd like to say things will be learnt by the Ds based on this failure, but their immediate reaction today online seems to be "big mad; flailing". I've seen people repeat the 2020 R line of "we had better crowds at rallies, so these numbers don't add up" and also seen people call Latinos stupid for "voting against their self-interest". Because in politics, it's never "Our messaging wasn't good enough and we cared more about pet project issues than what people wanted to see front and center."; it's always, "No. The people are wrong and we are right."

Nice to see Trump win Miami Dade county; that is pretty special. 

posted by QuakerOats

No, Trump had 74 million in '20; and currently has 72 million and will likely end up around 74 million. 

Can we ask again, are you able to explain extreme deviation from normal in '20 for the dem candidate. 

I already did. And it, unsurprisingly, was too much for you. 

Trump went from 62 mil to 74 mil from 16 to 20. Did he cheat too? Of course not. No reasonable person would assume that. But, reasonable is the key word here. 

A couple of unrelated things.

1. Anyone who has participated in the election process knows that significant cheating is all but impossible.

2. Someone on one of the Sunday morning shows (wish I remember who) suggested that we would be better served basing our votes on the relative integrity of the candidates rather than issues, even important ones. I tend to agree.

posted by queencitybuckeye

2. Someone on one of the Sunday morning shows (wish I remember who) suggested that we would be better served basing our votes on the relative integrity of the candidates rather than issues, even important ones. I tend to agree.

What? 

"relative integrity" is just another way of saying that likeability is more important than ability to solve problems. To me that just sounds like DEI- adjacent. 

Yeah, I will just kind of respectfully disagree.

On the flip side… I am seeing what some of you are talking about as far as the melodrama from my Democrat friends on Facebook today lol. It’s really not as serious as the examples you’re using. 

I've been trying to explain to some people that it's not the Supreme Court's job to create laws and kicking the abortion topic back to the states is the correct course of action. And boy, they just do not want to hear it. They still make the claim that RvW was law in fact. It really makes me wonder just how sick the state of our education system really has become. 

When I graduated HS in the late 80's, the separation of govt powers was taught in clear terms, boring as all that was. Are our schools not as good about some classes as they have been in the past? Is it a national, state or district problem? I'm trying to understand where this lack of knowledge is coming from. 

posted by CenterBHSFan

What? 

"relative integrity" is just another way of saying that likeability is more important than ability to solve problems. To me that just sounds like DEI- adjacent. 

Yeah, I will just kind of respectfully disagree.

Just the opposite, actually. It's saying that doing what is right (while admittedly subjective) is better than what is popular.

Arizona is all that remains.

posted by CenterBHSFan

I've been trying to explain to some people that it's not the Supreme Court's job to create laws and kicking the abortion topic back to the states is the correct course of action. And boy, they just do not want to hear it. They still make the claim that RvW was law in fact. It really makes me wonder just how sick the state of our education system really has become. 

When I graduated HS in the late 80's, the separation of govt powers was taught in clear terms, boring as all that was. Are our schools not as good about some classes as they have been in the past? Is it a national, state or district problem? I'm trying to understand where this lack of knowledge is coming from. 

RvW should have never been a federal issue. I think the reasonings for the SC taking on the case as a constitutional right or not is debatable, though. And at that point, my problem is I hate overturning it without explicitly making it a law. 

I do not really think a previous SC judgements should be overturned just because a new Justice has a different thought. Sets a bad precedent, imo. If you want a judgment overturned, it should have to be codified. 

posted by CenterBHSFan

Arizona is all that remains.

If Arizona falls for Trump, I want Justin picking my lottery tickets the next time I play.

My FB Dems….

posted by kizer permanente

On the flip side… I am seeing what some of you are talking about as far as the melodrama from my Democrat friends on Facebook today lol. It’s really not as serious as the examples you’re using. 

My favorite so far is the women and/or trans people crying saying they don’t understand how people can believe the price of a loaf of bread is more important than their very LIVES!

Like women and trans people are going to be in front of firing squads come Jan

I have very liberal friends going through things today. Very 2016 like. 

I figured the writing was on the wall a few weeks before last night. 

Cook Political Report is stating the Republicans have a decent chance to hold the House.

So, Republicans could get the full sweep.

posted by jmog

My favorite so far is the women and/or trans people crying saying they don’t understand how people can believe the price of a loaf of bread is more important than their very LIVES!

Like women and trans people are going to be in front of firing squads come Jan

I chuckle when I see these young girls, crying with their hands over their faces. It's as if their plan to get pregnant and then abort has been thwarted when they probably don't know how this works.

When Trump got elected in 2016, my "save the world/I'm smarter than everyone else/Green Party" nephew called my younger sister (his mom) curled up in the fetal position crying that the "world was coming to an end.....because, Trump."

posted by Ironman92

My FB Dems….

By the wording that person is a teacher. I never knew, and still don't upon thought, what politics my old teachers held. Maybe one male teacher who taught social studies, just from the way he dressed lol.

posted by Ironman92

My FB Dems….

Ruthkanda Forever!

Woe is me posts are the absolute worst. Main reason I ditched FB 10 yrs back. Twitter is getting just as bad, but still too many journalists and sporting folks I like. 

Reddit is the absolute worst and it’s not even close. I’m apart of the Facepalm and Wellthatsucks subreddits and it’s just endless posts about how fucked we are. 

posted by friendfromlowry

Reddit is the absolute worst and it’s not even close. I’m apart of the Facepalm and Wellthatsucks subreddits and it’s just endless posts about how fucked we are. 

Go to the suicide sub...... insanity.

posted by Ironman92

My FB Dems….

So, no mention of being saved from socialism? 

posted by Trueblue23

Go to the suicide sub...... insanity.

Sounds like a bad time even if there wasn’t an election yesterday. 

Why are you on the suicide subreddit. Do you want to talk about your feelings?