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2013 Wayne County Athletic League Football

  • dontcare
    iced earth;1522122 wrote:Can not imagine this is going to turn out well for the Rittman city schools. No way this kid should be suspended. Rittman should probably back track in a hurry. If the coach wants to sit him now...that's the coaches decision. But a public school suspending a kid for this...seems like a big risk for the school to take. Did you see that lawyer foaming at the mouth?
    Legal Action coming.
  • WCALfootballfan


    How can the truth and doing your homework be Bullying? This is not the intent of why they have policies on Bullying. This Kid was doing his assignment. I think this is as wrong as it gets, if anyone follows Rittman football they know this kid is right on target.
  • jaco
    Flash;1522218 wrote:Can't disagree about political correctness. But as an administrator and whats occurred at Rittman in the past you can't let this happen. I'm not disagreeing about the coach and how he's promoting his son, I'm just saying on principle you have to respond this way. The school may still lose this in court, but if the son decided to commit suicide over this stupid act, what would be said then about how this was handled. The administration would be blamed for not responding. Its a no win situation. Blamed for over reacting or blamed for not doing anything. I have no dog in this fight. Just a school board member that knows what its like to be in a pickle that wasn't your fault.
    It doesn't really matter how the school board defines "bullying". What matters is how the courts define the First Amendment. Friedman is a darn fine attorney. He's going to have the superintendent for lunch. And even being sympathetic to the administration, I don't see how this is defined internally as "bullying". It was an expressive piece, and the kid expressed frustration with football and perceived favoritism. Unless the kid was in the room or mentioned by name, I don't see bullying or intimidation. I'd bet 90% of these poems dealt with how much high school life sucks for teenagers. How would this be any different from a kid who expressed frustration that he gets B's while the "teacher's pet" gets A's? Is that bullying of the teacher's pet? By this standard it would be. This is why administrators really need to talk to lawyers before doing stupid stuff like suspending a kid for four days because he completed a homework assignment.
  • rrfan
    I read the poem and it sure seems that the kid nailed it! Can you pick one thing in the poem that is not true?
  • pdracer
    Flash;1522179 wrote:This is called bullying. Bullying a fellow student is not taken lightly these days. ODE is emphasizing this point to school districts and they have educational programs for students and administrators to curb this type of activity. Juvenile mistake with a light penalty and lesson learned. That's the lesson from this.

    This is the definition of bullying taken directly from StopBullying.gov:

    Bullying is unwanted, aggressive behavior among school aged children that involves a real or perceived power imbalance. Thebehavior is repeated, or has the potential to be repeated, over time. Both kids who are bullied and who bully others may have serious, lasting problems.


    In order to be considered bullying, the behavior must be aggressive and include:
    • An Imbalance of Power: Kids who bully use their power—such as physical strength, access to embarrassing information, or popularity—to control or harm others. Power imbalances can change over time and in different situations, even if they involve the same people.
    • Repetition: Bullying behaviors happen more than once or have the potential to happen more than once.
    The power imbalance is in the favor of the supposed victim in this case. The victim was not present, it was not a repeated action and according to what I was told, the teacher gave this kid a good grade on the assignment.

    The head coach/AD/ Dean of students was offended, I get it. But this is a little overboard. I have talked to a number of administrators, not board members, but principals and vice principals, from around the area and you are the first that has agreed with this. Bench him for the year, maybe, but a suspension and KICKED off the team, sounds a little excessive for doing what was asked to do.

    If in fact this paper was graded, and if, as I have been told, this was allowed to be read in class even after the teacher new about the content, wouldn't that teacher be responsible for allowing this "Hazing and Harassment" to take place? Any discipline on that end?

    Regardless, it's another black eye for the Rittman football team and one more thing to add to a horrible Senior year for yet another group of football players. I feel bad for all those kids and hope they get what they deserve next year.
  • RedRider1
    How would have it been handled had the subject of the poem not been the head coach & his kid.

    Probably doesn't leave the room.
  • WCALfootballfan
    Good post, to me it seems like the Kid that wrote the poem is being bullied..
    Some one posted earlier that we were all interested in watching this train wreck. Who thought it would be this bad. Carma is a bit....
  • Hunter86
    Poetic Justice !

    Went to class at Rittman

    The way I always do.

    How was I to know
    I'd be in trouble too? :confused:


    Did my comp assignment

    Wrote a good one too

    Read it in the classroom

    as soon as I was through


    After I was done, The teacher got the gist:

    She sent me to the office,

    The principal was pissed !


    Send lawyers, social counselors & money

    as soon as you can

    It's all out in Rittman

    The __it has hit the fan


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lP5Xv7QqXiM

    Thanks to Warren Zevon & the Rittman schools for the inspiration.
  • BRF
    Interesting that the DR didn't have a story on this today.
  • RedRider1
    BRF;1522381 wrote:Interesting that the DR didn't have a story on this today.
    doubt you'll see it. Guessing they'll steer clear of this. Which is too bad...this is news with a lot of local interest from several different angles & they're a newspaper.
  • O-Trap
    jaco;1522292 wrote:It doesn't really matter how the school board defines "bullying". What matters is how the courts define the First Amendment. Friedman is a darn fine attorney. He's going to have the superintendent for lunch. And even being sympathetic to the administration, I don't see how this is defined internally as "bullying". It was an expressive piece, and the kid expressed frustration with football and perceived favoritism. Unless the kid was in the room or mentioned by name, I don't see bullying or intimidation. I'd bet 90% of these poems dealt with how much high school life sucks for teenagers. How would this be any different from a kid who expressed frustration that he gets B's while the "teacher's pet" gets A's? Is that bullying of the teacher's pet? By this standard it would be. This is why administrators really need to talk to lawyers before doing stupid stuff like suspending a kid for four days because he completed a homework assignment.
    I completely agree.

    The more I think about this case, the more the administration far oversteps their bounds. Bullying, though it should be discouraged, does not trump free speech from a legal rights standpoint, and censorship is not the solution to bullying, even if this piece WERE an example of bullying.

    Taken to its ultimate conclusion, one could use the exact same logic to say that those public speakers who speak out against government action or inaction could be said to be bullying. I think dominance, real or perceived, need to come into play in the discussion of bullying, particularly in schools.

    Censorship, however, should not come into play, and legally cannot come into play.
    pdracer;1522302 wrote:This is the definition of bullying taken directly from StopBullying.gov:

    Bullying is unwanted, aggressive behavior among school aged children that involves a real or perceived power imbalance. Thebehavior is repeated, or has the potential to be repeated, over time. Both kids who are bullied and who bully others may have serious, lasting problems.


    In order to be considered bullying, the behavior must be aggressive and include:
    • An Imbalance of Power: Kids who bully use their power—such as physical strength, access to embarrassing information, or popularity—to control or harm others. Power imbalances can change over time and in different situations, even if they involve the same people.
    • Repetition: Bullying behaviors happen more than once or have the potential to happen more than once.
    The power imbalance is in the favor of the supposed victim in this case. The victim was not present, it was not a repeated action and according to what I was told, the teacher gave this kid a good grade on the assignment.

    The head coach/AD/ Dean of students was offended, I get it. But this is a little overboard. I have talked to a number of administrators, not board members, but principals and vice principals, from around the area and you are the first that has agreed with this. Bench him for the year, maybe, but a suspension and KICKED off the team, sounds a little excessive for doing what was asked to do.

    If in fact this paper was graded, and if, as I have been told, this was allowed to be read in class even after the teacher new about the content, wouldn't that teacher be responsible for allowing this "Hazing and Harassment" to take place? Any discipline on that end?

    Regardless, it's another black eye for the Rittman football team and one more thing to add to a horrible Senior year for yet another group of football players. I feel bad for all those kids and hope they get what they deserve next year.

    WCALfootballfan;1522365 wrote:Good post, to me it seems like the Kid that wrote the poem is being bullied.
    Yet another point worth mentioning. Should someone being bullied not be permitted to respond? Talk about mean-spirited.
    BRF;1522381 wrote:Interesting that the DR didn't have a story on this today.
    I'm betting they don't want to be associated with the quagmire this has become in any way.
  • Jmar25
    Flash;1522195 wrote:This suspension was not from the coach is my understanding. It was from administration. The coach is the AD. Like the coach- don't like the coach. I'm not defending him. He bullied a fellow student. All administrators, teachers and students are warned about this and have in school programs to deter this type of behavior. The student is allowed to quit any sport at anytime if he wants to. If they don't like whats going on they can complain to the administration and it will be looked into. I may not like what's going on in a program but this is not the way to approach it.
    Knock that crap off. It's not close to bullying at all. They over reacted because a coach and fellow administrator got his feelings hurt.
  • Flash
    Jmar . I can tell by your response you're a genius. I don't care one way or the other about this. Just thought a perspective from the school side would be in order. Since you edited your post I guess I'll edit mine. That's up to the courts. I'm sure this could have been handled in a different way also.
  • Jmar25
    Flash;1522465 wrote:Jmar . I can tell by your response you're a genius. I don't care one way or the other about this. Just thought a perspective from the school side would be in order.
    A rationale, reasonable, and competent administrator would have brought the kid in, explained how the poem could be perceived as a bad idea, and then issued the student a detention. Would have covered the school district in the extreme case that the kid goes home and commits suicide. Not to mention that they could have avoided the public relations mess they will now have to deal with. Does that cover the school side of things?
  • Hunter86
    Jmar25;1522477 wrote:A rationale, reasonable, and competent administrator would have brought the kid in, explained how the poem could be perceived as a bad idea, and then issued the student a detention. Would have covered the school district in the extreme case that the kid goes home and commits suicide. Not to mention that they could have avoided the public relations mess they will now have to deal with. Does that cover the school side of things?
    I think the real bullying & life lesson will come next fall when the boy gets on the Akron team, not from a class assignment written by some teammate kid speaking his mind.

    The teacher should have some responsibility for this in choosing the topic of the composition.
  • Jmar25
    Hunter86;1522520 wrote:I think the real bullying & life lesson will come next fall when the boy gets on the Akron team, not from a class assignment written by some teammate kid speaking his mind.

    The teacher should have some responsibility for this in choosing the topic of the composition.
    I'll keep my opinion on that subject quiet on this site.


    I agree that the teacher needs to take some "heat". I don't think it was a bad assignment or anything like that. They should not punish the teacher either.

    The teacher probably shouldn't have allowed the kids to read it out loud and will hopefully adjust this lesson in the future. I don't know how the teacher could correct the current situation after the fact. Demand the principal do the right thing and reinstate the student back into school and on the football team is my only suggestion. The fact is that no one should be punished and this kid should not have been kicked off the team and SUSPENSION SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN CONSIDERED. Extra conditioning or sit a quarter of a game.... yes, I could see that and would support that. I would support a detention at worst even though I feel a good principal/admin would have just talked to the student and left it at that.
  • Birddog
    Jmar25;1522544 wrote:I'll keep my opinion on that subject quiet on this site.


    I agree that the teacher needs to take some "heat". I don't think it was a bad assignment or anything like that. They should not punish the teacher either.

    The teacher probably shouldn't have allowed the kids to read it out loud and will hopefully adjust this lesson in the future. I don't know how the teacher could correct the current situation after the fact. Demand the principal do the right thing and reinstate the student back into school and on the football team is my only suggestion. The fact is that no one should be punished and this kid should not have been kicked off the team and SUSPENSION SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN CONSIDERED. Extra conditioning or sit a quarter of a game.... yes, I could see that and would support that. I would support a detention at worst even though I feel a good principal/admin would have just talked to the student and left it at that.
    This kid said exactly what everyone in Rittman knows and thinks and I give him credit for saying it. The program is sinking quick and heading south in a hurry. Get Dennis out. Also heard he is coaching track this year to eliminate his son getting yelled at by another coach. It happened last year and that coach got let go when he told the boy to run hard all the way through the finish line and the boy ran and told his daddy and the dad/AD chewed out the coach and told him to never talk to his son again. Sometimes you reap what you sew and the seamstress is going full go right now.
  • Flash
    Jmar , agree with your post above. This could have all been avoided had the assignment been different. You could have given the kid a do over because this wasn't acceptable. After he read it it's harder to do that.
  • Old Rider
    Just the read the poem and all I can say is that atleast he was speaking the truth and sometimes the truth DOES HURT! Good for that kid in having the balls to speak up and shame on the teacher for giving an assignment with such a broad topic and opening the door for just this type of thing!

    Suspend the teacher not the kid. This IS NOT BULLYING in any way shape or form!
  • rock turner
    Nepotism should be avoided like the black plague. Everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) knows this kid's sentiments are heartfelt and widely held. I can't wait for the administration to make the case that a D1 football recruit felt bullied by poetry. Kinda makes his case that dad/coach/AD exaggerated his son's ability to play FOOTBALL. At most the kid should be benched but only because he's expressed his unwillingness to be a team player. I can't really blame him for that.

    Coaching takes its toll on a family even when a team has a winning season - now imagine calling in some favors to get your son a D1 scholarship and in an attempt to showcase to the community why he deserves it you end up with a disaster of epic proportions. This thing doesn't end well for anyone involved and there are going to be plenty of bridges burned while it all gets sorted out.

    This should serve as a warning to school administrators - this sort of thing will happen again. As administrators you should take steps to avoid creating these clear conflicts of interest or be prepared to take the heat when the inevitable consequences of your inaction occur.
  • pdracer
    Hunter86;1522371 wrote:Poetic Justice !

    Went to class at Rittman

    The way I always do.

    How was I to know
    I'd be in trouble too? :confused:


    Did my comp assignment

    Wrote a good one too

    Read it in the classroom

    as soon as I was through


    After I was done, The teacher got the gist:

    She sent me to the office,

    The principal was pissed !


    Send lawyers, social counselors & money

    as soon as you can

    It's all out in Rittman

    The __it has hit the fan


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lP5Xv7QqXiM

    Thanks to Warren Zevon & the Rittman schools for the inspiration.

    Awesome, now get to the damn principals office and take your lashes!
  • jaco
    rock turner;1522645 wrote:Nepotism should be avoided like the black plague. Everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) knows this kid's sentiments are heartfelt and widely held. I can't wait for the administration to make the case that a D1 football recruit felt bullied by poetry. Kinda makes his case that dad/coach/AD exaggerated his son's ability to play FOOTBALL. At most the kid should be benched but only because he's expressed his unwillingness to be a team player. I can't really blame him for that.

    Coaching takes its toll on a family even when a team has a winning season - now imagine calling in some favors to get your son a D1 scholarship and in an attempt to showcase to the community why he deserves it you end up with a disaster of epic proportions. This thing doesn't end well for anyone involved and there are going to be plenty of bridges burned while it all gets sorted out.

    This should serve as a warning to school administrators - this sort of thing will happen again. As administrators you should take steps to avoid creating these clear conflicts of interest or be prepared to take the heat when the inevitable consequences of your inaction occur.

    Personally, I've got issues with any coach coaching his own son. I know it happens all the time around here, but that doesn't make it right. It's not fair to your son, and not fair to the other kids. It's very tough to treat your own son like "just another player", because he's not. And alot of very bad coaches worm their ways onto staffs just for the hope of coaching their own kids.
  • O-Trap
    jaco;1522807 wrote:Personally, I've got issues with any coach coaching his own son. I know it happens all the time around here, but that doesn't make it right. It's not fair to your son, and not fair to the other kids. It's very tough to treat your own son like "just another player", because he's not. And alot of very bad coaches worm their ways onto staffs just for the hope of coaching their own kids.
    Yeah, I've seen it done well, and I've seen it done poorly, but the chances of it being done poorly are too high with particular emotions liable to get in the way.
  • Havin Fun
    This whole Rittman situation could bring down the athletic program if not handled correctly. With Dennis being the AD, his actions could spark a backlash from all student athletes and parents. In my opinion he should be fired immediately and asked to not have contact with any athletes, administrators or parents. No family is going to consider moving to Rittman if their kids want to play a sport as long as he is anywhere around the school system. This is turning into a national embarrassment and the only solution is for him to leave and move his family ASAP. Can you imagine the things his kids will endure this basketball season?
  • 1_beast
    Dennis: Winning at football since, NEVER. Winning at AD....Just LOST! What a black eye for the program he destroyed. Bescancon had the rebuilding process under way, until Big D came to town. He has done the same thing he did at West Holmes. Created an offense to highlight HIS kid at the cost of all other TEAMMATES! Personal records...a shady scholly....and another lackluster coaching performance. The BOE should take care of the problem at the root.

    This kid simply did his homework assign, albeit toeing the line, he stated what his teamates, school, community and entire COUNTY has BEEN saying. He stated what EVERYONE else see's. He got a GREAT grade on his assignment!

    How do you get a GREAT grade and get reprimanded? Rittucky is in bad shape...and Norwayne gets ANOTHER transfer!