Orrville Red Rider Football 2012
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Red Rider NationTroll King;1285153 wrote:hell if our coaches ran off the field I think the cardiac unit at the hospital would be pretty busy, by the looks of those physiques.
Hahahhahahahahhahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha good point! Im not one to talk because I am fat and out of shape but that is a great post. Davault my be OK he looks like he works out but if he ran he would pull a hammy. He would be strething some muscles that arent usually used! -
Red Rider NationREDRIDER555;1285163 wrote:Red Rider Nation, is going to the Massillon/Austintown game, maybe the fans of these two teams will realize what a positive force he is to the team and community as a whole, not to mention all the football experience and knowledge he brings. I say even though it would be an irreplaceable asset to the team and coaching staff, we auction off Red Rider Nation unyielding positive influence and patronage to all that are blessed to be in his magnificent presence, and he could become a fan of either school. Then we could use the revenue this auction would bring, to buy something for the football stadium. I know its Aiming high but with his vast knowledge I bet we could have enough to get a new urinal cake for our new restroom.
Who will start the bidding?
I for one will miss you, but what a blessing you would be to Austintown or Massillon.
Wow smashing post. I am so hurt right now! Do you really think that bothers me? Are you going to the Orrville game Friday with the other 58 fans? Where have you been lately? I thought you disappeard like a fart in the wind! For me let me say again since you dont pay attention; football experience=NONE, football knowledge=SOME, so I guess I just dont know what I am talking about. You got me again! In order to auction me off doesnt your community actually have to go to the games? Numbers are down in the stands just like on the sidelines and I wonder why??? I am sure though you have all the answers. -
RedRider1
You really think our kids aren't in the weight room & watching film? Really?Red Rider Nation;1285158 wrote: Orrville continues to talk about tradition while kids from neighboring communities are hitting the weight room and watching films and working hard to get better.
We're just lolly gagging all summer & during game weeks? If you really think that you're just wrong.
That tradition that we talk about is what keeps our kids working hard..to uphold that tradition.
A 1-5 record isn't indicative of the work the kids have done this year. They're doing all they can with that they have. We're not creating turnovers or making big plays anywhere on the field. That's not coaching. Or it's not any different coaching that we've had the last several years.
Do we need to be the better executing team and the better coached team to make up for a talent deficiency? Yes. But have we ever been that? Go back to Mo & Mac. We've always had "that guy" or guys to make the big plays and win games. We don't this year.
One bad season doesn't render our tradition worthless. -
Red Rider NationRedRider1;1285170 wrote:You really think our kids aren't in the weight room & watching film? Really?
We're just lolly gagging all summer & during game weeks? If you really think that you're just wrong.
That tradition that we talk about is what keeps our kids working hard..to uphold that tradition.
A 1-5 record isn't indicative of the work the kids have done this year. They're doing all they can with that they have. We're not creating turnovers or making big plays anywhere on the field. That's not coaching. Or it's not any different coaching that we've had the last several years.
Do we need to be the better executing team and the better coached team to make up for a talent deficiency? Yes. But have we ever been that? Go back to Mo & Mac. We've always had "that guy" or guys to make the big plays and win games. We don't this year.
One bad season doesn't render our tradition worthless.
Sounds like someone is actually starting to believe their own lies. Boooohoooooo with the Mac and Mo had playmakers Bullcrap! We have them too but we DONT get them the ball. Stop with all the excuses!
MAC and Mo never had all the D1 talent that This character has had and he just isnt getting it done! Did you see the list from above by 5 knots? All kids that played for Davault. All kids that NEVER won a state title. Yes I know it cant happen every year but we had a chance 3 years in a row and didnt do it once. -
rrfan
Redrider1 we may be having this discussion for a few years to come. That is the part that is sad. I also don't think this team did the work in the weight room. They may have spent there time there but the work was not done. This is a weak team.
Maybe that high tech weight room made them soft! -
OQB
Red Rider Nation;1285164 wrote:Hahahhahahahahhahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha good point! Im not one to talk because I am fat and out of shape but that is a great post. Davault my be OK he looks like he works out but if he ran he would pull a hammy. He would be strething some muscles that arent usually used!
Davault does the conditioning before he puts the players through it....and that's a fact. -
rrfan
Mac and Mo had more playmakers then Davault has ever had. They did not help them get to college. Red Rider Nation we do not have playmakers this year. Like it or not it is the truth. The ones you call playmakers average about 4 drops per game. When we get them the ball they just put it on the ground.
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RedRider1
The playmakers didnt start showing up in 2006.
Griggs, Leeder, Bradley, Bolyard, Denson (x2), Ray, Reusser, Stultz, Jared Zwick, Haley.
Lots of guys who played D1 or had D1 talent. Not a football state title among that group either.
The 98 team was one of the best teams we've ever had. One standout in Dru Robinson, but lots of football players around him. Just like Norwayne last year. -
RedRider1
rrfan;1285178 wrote:Redrider1 we may be having this discussion for a few years to come. That is the part that is sad. I also don't think this team did the work in the weight room. They may have spent there time there but the work was not done. This is a weak team.
Maybe that high tech weight room made them soft!
Weight room may make a kid muscular, but can't make a kid tough. Toughness is in a kid or its not.
And not ALL the kids put the work in. Some showed up on day 1 of 2-a-days. Weight room work in the summer is voluntary. But to hear some talk on here, the kids that weren't in the weight room were already better & didn't need to put in the time....but better give them the ball on Friday nights! -
OQB
I think ALL of us agree things could be done differently on the field whether it be running something new or playing certain players.....whether that makes us a winner I don't know. Where the difference is...some of us want to replace coaches and others don't see a need to replace coaches.
We can bicker all we want but the fact is, are WE (Ohio Chatter Posters) going to do anything that changes the outcome of the games....no. That comes down to the coaches putting players in position to succeed and players executing the gameplan....I think we can say both are not happening to some extent, but to just get rid of the coaching staff that has had a lot of success here and bleed Red Rider Football is just crazy....especially after 1 bad season.
It's obvious none of us are going to change our opinions....which is fine we are all entitled to have an opinion and be able to voice it, we live in a great country and have been blessed with a great community and football tradition. -
REDRIDER555
rrfan;1285178 wrote:Redrider1 we may be having this discussion for a few years to come. That is the part that is sad. I also don't think this team did the work in the weight room. They may have spent there time there but the work was not done. This is a weak team.
Maybe that high tech weight room made them soft!
For those of you that think that there was no lifting program, during the winter or summer, I would invite you to look just inside the locker room; there is a huge spread sheet with the progression of each boy and their final maxes after two-a-days. If you look at it, you would notice the upward trend, and just guessing that about 90% participated on a regular bases, they had lifting offered, to the kid at three different times twice in the morning, and once in late afternoon or early evening (not sure on exact time). I can’t confirm this but I heard they had Mike Jarrett help on one of the days. Might I suggest that it could be that we are small and the kids on the line and backfield are giving up 75 pounds on average? -
thePITman
Orrville may be 1-5, but they have lost to some pretty good teams:
Triway (5-1)
Copley (4-2)
Lexington (4-2)
Mansfield Senior (5-1)
West Holmes (6-0)
That's one heck of a schedule since the season opener. The Red Riders have only one more opponent left on their schedule over .500. What if the Riders finish the season going 3-1, to get a 4-6 record? Would that change anyone's perception of what's "going on" in Orrville? Every school has a down year. Sure, maybe Orrville has lost to the teams they "should" have lost to (the better teams), but as long as they don't lose the games they shouldn't lose, it's hard to put it all on either the players or the coaches. If the team's just not very good, it's just not very good. It is what it is.
From another angle: Before last year, Triway went 8-3 in back-to-back seasons, then went 2-8 last year after starting 0-8. I don't remember anybody crying about wanting Coach Lee out as coach. Now I understand that Orrville's expectations may be higher than ours, but there was a sense developing in our area that we were starting to expect to win, kind of like the Red Riders expect to win when they step on the field. However, we understood that during the previous years we were blessed with great athletes such as Derek Carmichael, Sawyer Polen, Zach Houmard, Eric Myers, Ben Cline, and many others. Sure they weren't DI Big Ten players like Orrville is used to, but they were our version of them, basically. Last year we had some good (not great) players, and were very inexperienced. Senior leadership is very, very, very important, as well, as we are finding out this year. Orrville has some good players this year, but not a lot of great ones, IMO; and I'm not familiar with the players, but how good of leaders does this year's team have? That's my view from the outside, at least. -
rrfan
redriders555- now you are talking about 2 different things. I know we are undersized as far as height and weight. We usually are. What I see as a difference watching these kids is they are not Strong. I know the weight room was open and kids showed up, but why are they not stronger? They have to have the "want to" and out work everybody. I don't see that on the field. I am not being a smart guy. I am really curious. Coach Davault is a work out warrior and if you don't know Mike Jarrett's back ground look it up. So what is missing?
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5knots
Red Rider Nation;1285158 wrote:
I understand what you are saying. Here is my response. You do not need D1 talent scattered about your roster to win at the5knots;1285144 wrote:The beauty of this thread is that many of you are ticked off. what a beautiful thing. I hope that desire for winning never ends here...RTR. some of you stay positive because that is how you cope...or you have vested interest with a family or close friend or co-workers kid(s) you follow. Some are sooo ticked because you want more than what you seeing and that's OK too. Me, I'm not happy about losing, but I know what kind of men are leading these kids and they do things right. I don't know if they are guru coaches. show me a guru coach and I'll show you some talent on the team as well. We are young and small and don't seem to have that "guy" or "guys" to bail us out this year. We have been small and very limited in numbers for some time now....but we have been blessed with that "guy"...take your pick
Hiller
Brenner X 2
Simmons
Bescancon
Miller
Hoobler
Turner
Monheim
Bowman
Great post 5knots. Regardless of your feelings about me I have always respected you and your family and the support you continue to give at Orrville. I really enjoy watching Mason on Saturdays and he is just one heck of a player and an even better kid. As far as the coaching guru thing i will give you one; Norwayne! How many kids from last year's team did they send to a D1 college??? ZERO! That is a team with a coach that has a refuse to lose attitude. He gets the best out of the players he has and that is obvious. Talent? Yes they were talented but they just had a great gameplan every game last year and the kids executed on that gameplan! They were not intimidated by Orrville or Kenton for that matter or anyone else who stood in their way. They were just a D5 school playing up for their first year in D4 and cleaned house. What that coach has done over there is impressive. Nobody and I mean nobody in their right mind should or could compare Davault to that guy. Orrville continues to talk about tradition while kids from neighboring communities are hitting the weight room and watching films and working hard to get better. Yes the tradition at Orrville is great but that is NOT intimdating anyone who plays us and it shouldnt!
dIV level. It certainly helps, but not necessary. What you do need, if you don't have that, is a solid ball club...top to bottom. Norwayne may not have graduated any DI talent last year...but I assure you there will be 1-3 that were Jr or Sophs. Add to that fact that they were solid up front, had a QB that knew exactly how to manage the offense and got thru the year w/o any injuries to speak of. All of that = success. Our last Solid ball club top to bottom would prolly be the 2009 club. Although we were not very big up front so that may even be a stretch. So our success has come form stellar athletes carrying us....and yes....a coaching staff that seemed to do a good job. Take away the 4-5 trunovers in the Ottowa Glandorph game and that team is in the State Semis and you never know what is going to happen. Genoa was a better ball club than us that year but we had a fantastic game plan and exploited their aggressiveness. they never adjusted. We won. You win some and you lose some but I assure you Norwayne had all the pieces in place and the sophs and jrs on that team are now jrs and srs and look what they are doing. -
Troll King
Looking at the youg men on this team, i have a hard time believing more than a handful put in any serious effort in the weight room.RedRider1;1285170 wrote:You really think our kids aren't in the weight room & watching film? Really?
We're just lolly gagging all summer & during game weeks? If you really think that you're just wrong.
That tradition that we talk about is what keeps our kids working hard..to uphold that tradition.
A 1-5 record isn't indicative of the work the kids have done this year. They're doing all they can with that they have. We're not creating turnovers or making big plays anywhere on the field. That's not coaching. Or it's not any different coaching that we've had the last several years.
Do we need to be the better executing team and the better coached team to make up for a talent deficiency? Yes. But have we ever been that? Go back to Mo & Mac. We've always had "that guy" or guys to make the big plays and win games. We don't this year.
One bad season doesn't render our tradition worthless. -
Troll King5knots;1285273 wrote:
I will never agree that genoa was a better team than us that year. They just played a team that was better than all those soft D5 and D6 teams they played all year.Red Rider Nation;1285158 wrote:
I understand what you are saying. Here is my response. You do not need D1 talent scattered about your roster to win at the
dIV level. It certainly helps, but not necessary. What you do need, if you don't have that, is a solid ball club...top to bottom. Norwayne may not have graduated any DI talent last year...but I assure you there will be 1-3 that were Jr or Sophs. Add to that fact that they were solid up front, had a QB that knew exactly how to manage the offense and got thru the year w/o any injuries to speak of. All of that = success. Our last Solid ball club top to bottom would prolly be the 2009 club. Although we were not very big up front so that may even be a stretch. So our success has come form stellar athletes carrying us....and yes....a coaching staff that seemed to do a good job. Take away the 4-5 trunovers in the Ottowa Glandorph game and that team is in the State Semis and you never know what is going to happen. Genoa was a better ball club than us that year but we had a fantastic game plan and exploited their aggressiveness. they never adjusted. We won. You win some and you lose some but I assure you Norwayne had all the pieces in place and the sophs and jrs on that team are now jrs and srs and look what they are doing. -
5knots
I would not debate that point...they were very very good though. gave Alter all they could handle the year before in state semis and ROLLED thru 2009!!!
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5knots
Commitment by all not by some or most, by all. That has always been the missing piece as of late. Coaches don't have the numbers to force kids to sit until they reach the level of commitment required to be a champion. We have had very few kids over the last several years who have had that level of commitment. We have some....just not enough. Some got by on talent. They could have been better, but were very good with God given ability they had and to them, that was good enough. Can't win championships that way. You might win some football games, but not the pie in the sky. It is very obvious we have the program in place for kids to excel. How many of them continue to pee it away just boggles my mind. As if they have something better to do all spring and summer....rrfan;1285268 wrote:redriders555- now you are talking about 2 different things. I know we are undersized as far as height and weight. We usually are. What I see as a difference watching these kids is they are not Strong. I know the weight room was open and kids showed up, but why are they not stronger? They have to have the "want to" and out work everybody. I don't see that on the field. I am not being a smart guy. I am really curious. Coach Davault is a work out warrior and if you don't know Mike Jarrett's back ground look it up. So what is missing? -
Troll KingREDRIDER555;1285252 wrote:For those of you that think that there was no lifting program, during the winter or summer, I would invite you to look just inside the locker room; there is a huge spread sheet with the progression of each boy and their final maxes after two-a-days. If you look at it, you would notice the upward trend, and just guessing that about 90% participated on a regular bases, they had lifting offered, to the kid at three different times twice in the morning, and once in late afternoon or early evening (not sure on exact time). I can’t confirm this but I heard they had Mike Jarrett help on one of the days. Might I suggest that it could be that we are small and the kids on the line and backfield are giving up 75 pounds on average?[/I just wonder what there max lifts were when they started. You can tell when a kid is serious in the weight room and when he is just showing up and going through the motions. Anyone can add a little to his max even by lifting once a week, but to look like most of the kids on other teams you have to be dedicated and push yourself to the limit. It doesn't look like our kids do that except for a couple. I know what im talking about, i have been lifting for 20 years, hitting 50 and still have a 400 pound bench and can rep 225 for 27 reps. I am no idiot in this area, if i can do it at my age they should be able to also. They have to want it though.
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5knots
And the last 5 words say it all....THEY HAVE TO WANT IT THOUGH Amen brother. Everything is in place to achieve success...everything. Mason left HS benching 340 and doing 21-22 reps under the guidance of Davault, Jarrett, Olsen, Mosley. How did he do it? He never, ever,ever missed a workout. ever. Does not mean you will win every game. but success is more than a W or L. I don't even have to read back but I can prolly guess that certain posters who show up when things are bad are saying this kid or that kid should be playing and getting the ball more and I would also guess that the same this kid or that kid was a no show all summer. Been around the program along enough myself Troll.
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RedRider1
5knots;1285457 wrote:Commitment by all not by some or most, by all. That has always been the missing piece as of late. Coaches don't have the numbers to force kids to sit until they reach the level of commitment required to be a champion. We have had very few kids over the last several years who have had that level of commitment. We have some....just not enough. Some got by on talent. They could have been better, but were very good with God given ability they had and to them, that was good enough. Can't win championships that way. How many of them continue to pee it away just boggles my mind. As if they have something better to do all spring and summer....
So much good stuff 5k. Great point about numbers...in a program where you have 100 kids in 10th-12th grades, a kid gets lazy, he loses his spot.5knots;1285475 wrote:I don't even have to read back but I can prolly guess that certain posters who show up when things are bad are saying this kid or that kid should be playing and getting the ball more and I would also guess that the same this kid or that kid was a no show all summer. -
5knots
100 kids???? heck give me 50-60 kids and you can do that. We just don't have that luxury.
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Troll King
I wonder what they're max lifts were to begin with .You can tell if a kid is serious in the weight room or just they're going through the motions .You can add To your max by just lifting once a week. The teams that we play look like their kids are serious about lifting .We have a couple who look like they take it serious. The rest of them I think are just fooling around going through the motions . I'm not an idiot in this area , Even though some of you think I am in other areas . I live in the weight room I'm nearing 50 in a couple months and I can still bench 400 and rep 225 for 27 reps. If I can do it at my age they can certainly do it at there's . They just have to want it . By the way I'm not bragging or blowing my own horn I was just trying to make a point .REDRIDER555;1285252 wrote:For those of you that think that there was no lifting program, during the winter or summer, I would invite you to look just inside the locker room; there is a huge spread sheet with the progression of each boy and their final maxes after two-a-days. If you look at it, you would notice the upward trend, and just guessing that about 90% participated on a regular bases, they had lifting offered, to the kid at three different times twice in the morning, and once in late afternoon or early evening (not sure on exact time). I can’t confirm this but I heard they had Mike Jarrett help on one of the days. Might I suggest that it could be that we are small and the kids on the line and backfield are giving up 75 pounds on average? -
5knots
Start listening to this at the 3:40 mark. Beckman fields a question about his 2 freshman LBs. One from Cleveland St Ignatius and Mason from little old Orrville. The "program" he speaks of is not St Iggys...he is referring to Orrville's program. Now I am not saying we have a better program than St Iggys...I am saying we have a "program" that is respected in the D1 ranks. That doesn't just happen by itself. Takes a lot of sacrifice by many coaches and their families. They love what they do.
http://www.fightingillini.com/sports/m-footbl/ill-m-footbl-body.html and click the Beckman presser pic for the 10-1 presser -
Old Rider
Great post and so true! Sanitizer loves this one!5knots;1285457 wrote:Commitment by all not by some or most, by all. That has always been the missing piece as of late. Coaches don't have the numbers to force kids to sit until they reach the level of commitment required to be a champion. We have had very few kids over the last several years who have had that level of commitment. We have some....just not enough. Some got by on talent. They could have been better, but were very good with God given ability they had and to them, that was good enough. Can't win championships that way. You might win some football games, but not the pie in the sky. It is very obvious we have the program in place for kids to excel. How many of them continue to pee it away just boggles my mind. As if they have something better to do all spring and summer....