Sunday: Boston Celtics at Cleveland Cavs
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ytownfootball
The part you left out, compared to this yearWhat part is bullshit? The subs I listed or the fact that the team was a well oiled machine? -
Footwedge
I'm the idiot? After you post this fuckin garbage? LOLOLOLOL. Wanna post your little numbers per minute? And secondly, what about the defensive side of the equation?ytownfootball wrote: Sasha, Wally, Ben and Joe Smith
avg 21.0 pts/game
avg 7 rebs/game
Jamison, Parker, Moon and Shaq
avg 32.5 pts/game
avg 21.3 rebs/game
That's +11.5 pts. and +14.3 rebs. per game.
The Cavs are better this year and it's not close. You're an idiot.
I'll put you in the column with the other mathematically challenged dolts here on ohiochatter that don't understand gross results.
Simple question for you Slueth. Explain to me why...
A. Last year's winning percenatge was .805 and this year's winning percentage to date is .776?
Why............I want specific answers. Bullshit won't fly.
Or that last year's winning margin was 8.9 points per game vs. 7.2 this year?
Again, I don't want to hear about Moon, or Jamison or Parker, or even Shaq. The ball don't lie, fuckstick.
Yeah this year's bench is sooooooooo much better. -
ytownfootball
That's +11.5 pts. and +14.3 rebs. per game
ballgame -
Footwedge
Answer the fuckin questions. Or do you want me to do the leg work. Which is it?ytownfootball wrote: That's +11.5 pts. and +14.3 rebs. per game
ballgame -
3reppom
it's funny you write a couple hundred word retort to my post and you didn't even try refute my central point. -
ytownfootball
Foot
First of all, it's so fucking stupid to compare this years winning percentage to last years it's not worth discussing. There are different players not just on the Cavs but on every other team. Injuries happen to all teams at different times of the year also. Why discuss that? Same goes for margin of fuckin' victory. I can't help you if you don't see the idiocy of discussing apples and oranges, the variables are too many for one or the other to be valid.
This years team is better because what we got to replace what we lost FAR exceeds what we gave up. It's that simple. -
FootwedgeJust looked up Joe Smith vs PoonTawn Jamison. Joe Smith averaged 10% more rebounds PER MINUTE than ole Poon. They had virtually the same shooting percentage after today's game was included, and Smith hit over 70% of his free throws. And Smith was a better defender than PoonTawn.
Just another reminder...figures don't lie...but liars figure. -
Footwedge
And your media induced, opiated delusions is why I argue the point.,,,and enjoy doing so.ytownfootball wrote: Foot
First of all, it's so fucking stupid to compare this years winning percentage to last years it's not worth discussing. There are different players not just on the Cavs but on every other team. Injuries happen to all teams at different times of the year also. Why discuss that? Same goes for margin of fuckin' victory. I can't help you if you don't see the idiocy of discussing apples and oranges, the variables are too many for one or the other to be valid.
This years team is better because what we got to replace what we lost FAR exceeds what we gave up. It's that simple.
I hope the Cavs win a title every bit as much as anyone else on these boards. They have a great chance of doing so.
You, like most everybody else here, forget how good last year's team was...because they were edged by an overachieving Orlando team.
Whether you think so or not, the actual odds of the Cavs winning it all this year are about 3 to 1 aghainst. Last year, the odds were more in the Cavs favor.
Believe what you want...enjoy the rest of the season...but knock off the shit that this team is better. Because the numbers prove they aren't. -
Heretic
While I'm not this Mr. Slueth you're asking these questions to, the answer to them is so simple to give that I feel compelled to deliver it.Footwedge wrote:Simple question for you Slueth. Explain to me why...
A. Last year's winning percenatge was .805 and this year's winning percentage to date is .776?
Why............I want specific answers. Bullshit won't fly.
Or that last year's winning margin was 8.9 points per game vs. 7.2 this year?
Again, I don't want to hear about Moon, or Jamison or Parker, or even Shaq. The ball don't lie, fuckstick.
Yeah this year's bench is sooooooooo much better.
Before answering, though, I must ask why you feel SO compelled to deliver this argument that you're bringing up meaningless things like a slightly less amazing winning percentage (as long as they have home court advantage, who cares if they're .29 worse in percentage?) and margin of victory? Shit, ask Sage, 2quik or any Laker fan how much at least one Shaq-Kobe team cared about the regular season. They coasted to a good (not great) record and saved up their pimp hand for the playoffs when they delivered one slap-down after another.
Back on point. After last year's debacle against Orlando, Cleveland felt the need to add pieces to their line-up. The primary two pieces have been Shaq and Jamison. Both of those guys are elderly folk who've been stars on teams in the past, but are now somewhere they HAVE to to accept lesser "support cast" roles. The team struggled early on when Shaq and the rest were adjusting to each other and they struggled in those first few games with Jamison for that same reason. If you take their first 3 games with each of those players, I believe you'll wind up with a 1-5 record. That's your win-percentage difference and a decent bit more, I'd imagine. -
Footwedge
Because I don't have the time to go line by line. Enjoy your media laced opiated delusions. Oh...and tell me again how bad Brownie is as a coach. That one is a leg tingler.3reppom wrote: it's funny you write a couple hundred word retort to my post and you didn't even try refute my central point. -
ytownfootball
I'm not opiated nor deluded foot, I just have an opinion that differs from yours.
Were every GM asked if they would rather have Sasha, Wally, Ben and Joe
---or---
Shaq, Jamison, Moon and Parker.....
What the fuck do you think the answer would be? -
Footwedge
OK....finally a logical retort. Thanks for the reply. At the very least, you have put some thought into your reasoning.Heretic wrote:
While I'm not this Mr. Slueth you're asking these questions to, the answer to them is so simple to give that I feel compelled to deliver it.Footwedge wrote:Simple question for you Slueth. Explain to me why...
A. Last year's winning percenatge was .805 and this year's winning percentage to date is .776?
Why............I want specific answers. Bullshit won't fly.
Or that last year's winning margin was 8.9 points per game vs. 7.2 this year?
Again, I don't want to hear about Moon, or Jamison or Parker, or even Shaq. The ball don't lie, fuckstick.
Yeah this year's bench is sooooooooo much better.
Before answering, though, I must ask why you feel SO compelled to deliver this argument that you're bringing up meaningless things like a slightly less amazing winning percentage (as long as they have home court advantage, who cares if they're .29 worse in percentage?) and margin of victory? Shit, ask Sage, 2quik or any Laker fan how much at least one Shaq-Kobe team cared about the regular season. They coasted to a good (not great) record and saved up their pimp hand for the playoffs when they delivered one slap-down after another.
Back on point. After last year's debacle against Orlando, Cleveland felt the need to add pieces to their line-up. The primary two pieces have been Shaq and Jamison. Both of those guys are elderly folk who've been stars on teams in the past, but are now somewhere they HAVE to to accept lesser "support cast" roles. The team struggled early on when Shaq and the rest were adjusting to each other and they struggled in those first few games with Jamison for that same reason. If you take their first 3 games with each of those players, I believe you'll wind up with a 1-5 record. That's your win-percentage difference and a decent bit more, I'd imagine.
However, I would argue that last year's team also had some changes that reflected negatively in their overall record.
But to suggest that outscoring opponents collectively by an additionl 200 points on the year as being "trivial" or "unimportant" is ridiculous.
The media will feed the Cav fans that the "issues were addressed". Not so...especially in Shaq's case. The team has played much better with him off the court versus on the court. It's an illusion...a ruse...if you will.
I still think the Cavs have the best team in the NBA THIS YEAR. But to say they are better than last year is simply an implication that I find nothing logical in supporting. -
Footwedge
After reviewing the numbers...the GM's would prefer last year's team. and any GM that thinks otherwise, would be an idiot.ytownfootball wrote: I'm not opiated nor deluded foot, I just have an opinion that differs from yours.
Were every GM asked if they would rather have Sasha, Wally, Ben and Joe
---or---
Shaq, Jamison, Moon and Parker.....
What the fuck do you think the answer would be?
The major difference in my argument with the rest of you that have been opiated by the sports media....the Cavs absorbed a HUGE UPSET at the hands of the Magic last year.
Last year's team was far better than Orlando last year....that was the reason why the Cavaliers were a monsterous 6 to 1 favorites to beat them.
It had nothing to do with match ups...but had everything to do with Orlando playing far above their station...and the Cavs, particularky the guard play, well below their station. -
ytownfootball
OK then answer 3reppom assertion that they can play differing styles. Your boy Poontawn had the same answer after todays game, they're more versatile, they can go big, they can play run and gun etc... Point is they can MATCH-UP with anyone, yeah you HATE that terminology but it's the truth. Having been in town only a month he certainly has the advantage of an outsiders perspective, one that I'm sure you'll discount but I'll take and NBA all-stars word over yours.
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sportswizuhrdFoot...Did you ever think that the differences in stats and wins/losses from last year and this year could be the number of new players we have from 08-09 to this year? We didnt have that much change over in the summer before 08-09 and in during the season. We do this year. Adapting to new teammates, new roles, new city, Brown adapting to new rotations, etc. I know they are professionals but still, its gonna take some time. What new players did they have to adjust to last year? Mo, Darnell Jackson and Joe Smith(mid-season trade). There was a big deadline deal in '07-08 but that didnt really affect last season in terms of adjusting.
09-10 In-Shaq, Moon, Powe, Parker, Green, Jamison and then Z again.
Out-Z, Wallace, Sasha, Wally, Smith, Kinsey, Wright. -
Footwedge
Fair argument. Compare and contrast with the newbies when Mo came in and the trades throughout the season. Last year's team had plenty of new team members with the same issues. Last year's team was projected to come in second behind the Pistons, and projected to be 4th or 5th seed before the season started.sportswizuhrd wrote: Foot...Did you ever think that the differences in stats and wins/losses from last year and this year could be the number of new players we have from 08-09 to this year? We didnt have that much change over in the summer before 08-09 and in during the season. We do this year. Adapting to new teammates, new roles, new city, Brown adapting to new rotations, etc. I know they are professionals but still, its gonna take some time. What new players did they have to adjust to last year? Mo, Darnell Jackson and Joe Smith(mid-season trade). There was a big deadline deal in '07-08 but that didnt really affect last season in terms of adjusting.
09-10 In-Shaq, Moon, Powe, Parker, Green, Jamison and then Z again.
Out-Z, Wallace, Sasha, Wally, Smith, Kinsey, Wright.
One can argue that they over achieved. To me, the Cavs ended up being who we thought they were. And who they were was the best team in the NBA. Sometimes the best team doesn't win the championship. -
Footwedge
I'm done for the night...I'll take this up with you later. But just a tip...........don't call me or anyone else an idiot if their views don't allign up with Jupiter or Mars...or your Utopian world view of the NBA....and then others won't jump your bones...Kapish?ytownfootball wrote: OK then answer 3reppom assertion that they can play differing styles. Your boy Poontawn had the same answer after todays game, they're more versatile, they can go big, they can play run and gun etc... Point is they can MATCH-UP with anyone, yeah you HATE that terminology but it's the truth. Having been in town only a month he certainly has the advantage of an outsiders perspective, one that I'm sure you'll discount but I'll take and NBA all-stars word over yours. -
Lovejoy1984
10%, you serious Clark?Footwedge wrote: Just looked up Joe Smith vs PoonTawn Jamison. Joe Smith averaged 10% more rebounds PER MINUTE than ole Poon. They had virtually the same shooting percentage after today's game was included, and Smith hit over 70% of his free throws. And Smith was a better defender than PoonTawn.
Just another reminder...figures don't lie...but liars figure.
Joe Smith played 1102 minutes last season with 263 rebounds
1102/263= 4.19
With Cavs
411/100= 4.41 RPM
Jamison has 1932 minutes with 437 rebounds
1932/437= 4.42
With Cavs
337/75= 4.49 RPM
Um. Jamison wins? -
devil1197Haha.
This guy is a fucking ratard. -
2quik4u
Maybe in football but in a sport with a 7 game series the better team wins.Footwedge wrote:
Fair argument. Compare and contrast with the newbies when Mo came in and the trades throughout the season. Last year's team had plenty of new team members with the same issues. Last year's team was projected to come in second behind the Pistons, and projected to be 4th or 5th seed before the season started.sportswizuhrd wrote: Foot...Did you ever think that the differences in stats and wins/losses from last year and this year could be the number of new players we have from 08-09 to this year? We didnt have that much change over in the summer before 08-09 and in during the season. We do this year. Adapting to new teammates, new roles, new city, Brown adapting to new rotations, etc. I know they are professionals but still, its gonna take some time. What new players did they have to adjust to last year? Mo, Darnell Jackson and Joe Smith(mid-season trade). There was a big deadline deal in '07-08 but that didnt really affect last season in terms of adjusting.
09-10 In-Shaq, Moon, Powe, Parker, Green, Jamison and then Z again.
Out-Z, Wallace, Sasha, Wally, Smith, Kinsey, Wright.
One can argue that they over achieved. To me, the Cavs ended up being who we thought they were. And who they were was the best team in the NBA. Sometimes the best team doesn't win the championship. -
sportswizuhrd
Last year's team only had Mo, Terrance Kinsey, Lorenzo Wright and Darnell Jackson as their new player at the start of the season and they acquired Joe Smith in the middle of the season. Mo and Smith were the only ones that saw significant time. Also, Delonte, Wally, Big Ben all came the season before.Footwedge wrote:
Fair argument. Compare and contrast with the newbies when Mo came in and the trades throughout the season. Last year's team had plenty of new team members with the same issues. Last year's team was projected to come in second behind the Pistons, and projected to be 4th or 5th seed before the season started.sportswizuhrd wrote: Foot...Did you ever think that the differences in stats and wins/losses from last year and this year could be the number of new players we have from 08-09 to this year? We didnt have that much change over in the summer before 08-09 and in during the season. We do this year. Adapting to new teammates, new roles, new city, Brown adapting to new rotations, etc. I know they are professionals but still, its gonna take some time. What new players did they have to adjust to last year? Mo, Darnell Jackson and Joe Smith(mid-season trade). There was a big deadline deal in '07-08 but that didnt really affect last season in terms of adjusting.
09-10 In-Shaq, Moon, Powe, Parker, Green, Jamison and then Z again.
Out-Z, Wallace, Sasha, Wally, Smith, Kinsey, Wright.
One can argue that they over achieved. To me, the Cavs ended up being who we thought they were. And who they were was the best team in the NBA. Sometimes the best team doesn't win the championship.
The truth could be that they played better because Damon Jones was gone.
-
Footwedge
I have no idea where you come up with your numbers. But your numbers are wrong.HighRoller74 wrote:
10%, you serious Clark?Footwedge wrote: Just looked up Joe Smith vs PoonTawn Jamison. Joe Smith averaged 10% more rebounds PER MINUTE than ole Poon. They had virtually the same shooting percentage after today's game was included, and Smith hit over 70% of his free throws. And Smith was a better defender than PoonTawn.
Just another reminder...figures don't lie...but liars figure.
Joe Smith played 1102 minutes last season with 263 rebounds
1102/263= 4.19
With Cavs
411/100= 4.41 RPM
Jamison has 1932 minutes with 437 rebounds
1932/437= 4.42
With Cavs
337/75= 4.49 RPM
Um. Jamison wins?
Just as "no one touches the Shaqtus"....."no one questions the Fooqtus"
Per the official NBA stats..,,,
PER 36 MINUTES.
PoonTawn Jamison with cavs. 8.0 total rebounds.
Joe Smith 8.8 total rebounds.
Read link 1 and 2.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamisan01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smithjo02.html -
Footwedge
3 short years ago, the Mavericks were 67 and 15. The Warriors were 42 and 40. The Warriors not only won the series, but they blew out the Mavericks in 6 games...winning the last game by 20 points.2quik4u wrote:
Maybe in football but in a sport with a 7 game series the better team wins.Footwedge wrote:
Fair argument. Compare and contrast with the newbies when Mo came in and the trades throughout the season. Last year's team had plenty of new team members with the same issues. Last year's team was projected to come in second behind the Pistons, and projected to be 4th or 5th seed before the season started.sportswizuhrd wrote: Foot...Did you ever think that the differences in stats and wins/losses from last year and this year could be the number of new players we have from 08-09 to this year? We didnt have that much change over in the summer before 08-09 and in during the season. We do this year. Adapting to new teammates, new roles, new city, Brown adapting to new rotations, etc. I know they are professionals but still, its gonna take some time. What new players did they have to adjust to last year? Mo, Darnell Jackson and Joe Smith(mid-season trade). There was a big deadline deal in '07-08 but that didnt really affect last season in terms of adjusting.
09-10 In-Shaq, Moon, Powe, Parker, Green, Jamison and then Z again.
Out-Z, Wallace, Sasha, Wally, Smith, Kinsey, Wright.
One can argue that they over achieved. To me, the Cavs ended up being who we thought they were. And who they were was the best team in the NBA. Sometimes the best team doesn't win the championship.
That's just one example. To suggest the better team always wins in a 7 game series is absolute lunacy. More media delusions. And I doubt if Cuban blamed it on "match up" problems.
Read about it here....
http://www.nba.com/games/20070503/DALGSW/recap.html -
namod65
The Cavs/Magic series was three last second shots away from being the Cavs in 6...2quik4u wrote:
Maybe in football but in a sport with a 7 game series the better team wins.Footwedge wrote:
Fair argument. Compare and contrast with the newbies when Mo came in and the trades throughout the season. Last year's team had plenty of new team members with the same issues. Last year's team was projected to come in second behind the Pistons, and projected to be 4th or 5th seed before the season started.sportswizuhrd wrote: Foot...Did you ever think that the differences in stats and wins/losses from last year and this year could be the number of new players we have from 08-09 to this year? We didnt have that much change over in the summer before 08-09 and in during the season. We do this year. Adapting to new teammates, new roles, new city, Brown adapting to new rotations, etc. I know they are professionals but still, its gonna take some time. What new players did they have to adjust to last year? Mo, Darnell Jackson and Joe Smith(mid-season trade). There was a big deadline deal in '07-08 but that didnt really affect last season in terms of adjusting.
09-10 In-Shaq, Moon, Powe, Parker, Green, Jamison and then Z again.
Out-Z, Wallace, Sasha, Wally, Smith, Kinsey, Wright.
One can argue that they over achieved. To me, the Cavs ended up being who we thought they were. And who they were was the best team in the NBA. Sometimes the best team doesn't win the championship.
And yeah see above for the Mavs/Warriors series as well. -
hoops23
First of all, why would you list per 36 minutes? An NBA game is per 48 minutes.. Usually, when you compare stats PER minute, you're comparing it over the course of an entire NBA game..
However, I'm tired of arguing over your bullshit. It's obvious that Antawn has made us a much better team.. He's bringing in double-doubles nightly with us.. Stop being fucking ignorant, because that's the only thing you're doing on this subject.
As far as Andy, I was on the "Pay the man" bandwagon.. I remember me and SQ going to war over on JJ Huddle when this happened, trying to debate his value to this team with other posters.
With that said, AGAIN, Andy is more effective when he gets around 20-23 MPG because he can play 100% the entire time on the court w/o being tired and ineffective.
Seriously, enjoy what we fucking have and stop finding reasons to suddenly BITCH about... I hate fans who bitch about anything and everything on a team that is currently 52-15. Seriously. SHUT THE FUCK UP.