Ohio Chatter DEV

SQ_Crazies

LOL@ slamming a player who has been WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY better all the time and never giving him credit for BETTER games and then praising a player who puts up a fluke game based on his averages, mostly during a period of time where we had a stranglehold on the DETROIT PISTONS.

Cleveland Buck

For the record, in case you were replying to my post, I was LOLing at not only the name Poon Tawn Jamison, but the fact that he abbreviated it PTJ. I in no way endorse 'Wedge's views on Jamison and Powe.

SQ_Crazies

Yes, I know.

Footwedge

SQ_Crazies wrote: Exposing you for the troll that you are. Which this last post is yet ANOTHER great example of.

Look at what you do, you just post for shock value and to try to get a response. You don't add any intelligence to the debate anymore. You disagreed with a move the team made and you have gone totally overboard to support your stance on it. Like I said before, you've taken on the persona of the "uncool Cav fan" ever since you put it in your signature. You make a point to try to be that at this point and disagree on anything with anyone who called you a fool over the Jamison thing. There have been multiple instances of this in response to something I've posted now, it's been easy to get you to walk right into it..

And I just fucking destroyed you in those posts, it isn't my fault you can't see it. It's very clear what you are.

Curly, I just post facts to back up my claims. I'm sorry that facts are unpopular with you people. The facts state that Jamison is a poor outside shooter. The facts show that last year's Cavs team was better...in a myriad of statistical categories.

The media's opium has done wonders on the Cav fanbase en masse. But somehow, I'm the bad guy in presenting the numbers. The numbers...just like the ball...they don't lie.

I think this Cav team is the best in basketball. Just like last year's team was. Last year's team was the greatest Cleveland sports team in over 5 decades, with the only legit argument coming from tribe fans and the 95 team.

People want to downplay the work of Wally, Sasha, and Smith. Well, they were winners, and part of the best sports experience I ever witnesssed.

Only a few flukes cost the Cavs the Eastern title last year. And they were in fact flukes.

Let me remind you Curly, the Cavs were a 6 to 1 to beat Orlando last year.

The Vegas odds were formulated by the power strength of the team. A team that was 74 and 16 up until that point, were 43 and 2 in home games (one of the losses was an exhibition game), were the only team in the 60 year history of the NBA to win 8 straight playoff games by double digits.

The Cavs WILL NOT be favored by 6 to 1 over anyone in the finals of the east this year.

What that means is...the subtraction of certain players from last year, and the addition of certain players this year, has not improved the overall power ratings of this team.

These are the facts. I've stated them for 3 weeks now. If you, Larry, Moe and Shemp want to opine differently, knock yourself out.

SQ_Crazies

LOL, facts...

Like posting false stats?

Or assuming you know what the Vegas odds will be this year and parading that around as a fact?

You're an idiot, bottom line. I have no interest in arguing with you anymore, I really haven't but I went out of my way to expand on what others have done to prove that you are in fact a mental midget with a loud mouth and some fast fingers.

Cleveland Buck

I somewhat agree with many of your points about Jamison, though not the degree you do, but I must interject regarding the Vegas odds. The pretty much set their odds to where they feel they will have the same amount of money on both sides of the bet. Some of that has to do with how good a team is, some of it is based on how good a team is perceived to be.

SQ_Crazies

And if it's the Cavs/Magic again--no fucking shit they won't be a 6-1. Based on what happened last year, no matter how much more favorable the match up is for us, they won't make Cleveland that big a favorite.

Clearly they shouldn't have been that much of a favorite LAST year, so you could say they were overrated right?

If the Cavs win the title this year you're still going to tell us last years team was better aren't you?

SQ_Crazies

Also, could you provide me with a link to those 6-1 odds? Because your "facts" have clearly been a bit off tonight.

Footwedge

Cleveland Buck wrote: I somewhat agree with many of your points about Jamison, though not the degree you do, but I must interject regarding the Vegas odds. The pretty much set their odds to where they feel they will have the same amount of money on both sides of the bet. Some of that has to do with how good a team is, some of it is based on how good a team is perceived to be.

Agreed Buck. You are correct in your assessment. The odds are set by an internet connected group of slimeballs that hoodwink idiots into trying to beat the odds.

Last year, right after the Cavs had smoked Atlanta and Detroit, the oddsmakers "opened" the line with the Cavs at 6 to 1 favorites. And then the public pounded in their hard earned money on the Cavs...driving the odds up to 8-1 favorites. If you would like me to show the links, I'll dig them up.

Yet somehow, the perception is that this year's team is better? They are fantastic...and a great ride for the title starved Cleveland fans. But this team is not quite as good as last year's team.

The best team doesn't always win...just ask the undefeated Patriots, the 1991 Oakland A's, the Colts in Super Bowl 3, the Colts in the 1964 championship game, the 95 Indians, or the Dallas Mavericks who won 67 games in 07, only to be blown out by the 8th seeded GS Warriors ..first round. Or go all the way back to 1054, when the tribe went 111 and 43, only to be swept by the lowly NY baseball Giants.

SQ_Crazies

Dude I totally agree with you that the Magic series was an upset. The Cavs were the better team, I've been a firm believer in that--they just had matchup issues.

But the roster this year vs. the roster last year isn't even close. That's why they're better. That's what you ignore. Say that people didn't appreciate Wally and Joe Smith all you want but there is absolute no argument here.

Footwedge

SQ_Crazies wrote: Also, could you provide me with a link to those 6-1 odds? Because your "facts" have clearly been a bit off tonight.

Not now...I'm going to bed. But your memory is bad...I showed them to you 4 weeks ago when this "pile on FootWedge" craze was all that and then some.

But remember...you don't touch the Shaqtus, and you don't question the Fooqtas.

But I will get you the links.

SQ_Crazies

Footwedge wrote: But remember...you don't touch the Shaqtus, and you don't question the Fooqtas.

You are the epitome of a douche bag.

Footwedge

SQ_Crazies wrote: And if it's the Cavs/Magic again--no fucking shit they won't be a 6-1.
If the Cavs win the title this year you're still going to tell us last years team was better aren't you?

Tthe best team on paper only. But the Cavs will be the World Champions...obviously.

Being the best team on paper only means that you have the best chance to win. In the big picture, it means nothing. Only the winners are remembered. that's part of the reason why so many forget how fuggin good the Cavs were.

Let me ask you a serious question here. If Anderson V tips in LBJ's second free throw with .05 left in game 4, do you think the Cavs win game 7?

And the second part of my question, if the Cavs would have won game 7, would you and others be crying over the "bad match ups" this year?

Footwedge

SQ_Crazies wrote:
Footwedge wrote: But remember...you don't touch the Shaqtus, and you don't question the Fooqtas.
You are the epitome of a douche bag.

Buy a sense of humor.

SQ_Crazies

Footwedge wrote:
SQ_Crazies wrote:
Footwedge wrote: But remember...you don't touch the Shaqtus, and you don't question the Fooqtas.
You are the epitome of a douche bag.
Buy a sense of humor.

Wasn't trying to be funny...

SQ_Crazies

Footwedge wrote:
SQ_Crazies wrote: And if it's the Cavs/Magic again--no fucking shit they won't be a 6-1.
If the Cavs win the title this year you're still going to tell us last years team was better aren't you?
Tthe best team on paper only. But the Cavs will be the World Champions...obviously.

Being the best team on paper only means that you have the best chance to win. In the big picture, it means nothing. Only the winners are remembered. that's part of the reason why so many forget how fuggin good the Cavs were.

Let me ask you a serious question here. If Anderson V tips in LBJ's second free throw with .05 left in game 4, do you think the Cavs win game 7?

And the second part of my question, if the Cavs would have won game 7, would you and others be crying over the "bad match ups" this year?

Ok, first of all, that's fucking hilarious that you could honestly say they were better last year if they win the title this year. I mean really, that's the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard.

Um, why are we playing the if game? He didn't. I have no idea if they would have won game 7--I want to say yes because it would have been in the Q, but it would have been a toss up game just like the others.

And no, I wouldn't have thought the matchups were that much of a problem because we would have won the series. Those games were all toss ups basically, ON PAPER the Cavs were a hell of a lot better--the only difference was they were able to use unique abilities to their advantage. Abilities like having a center good enough to keep FOUR guys on the perimeter and having 2 of those 4 guys stand basically at 7 feet--and when they're shooting over small guys they're on fire. When they're guarded by bigger guys they were blowing right by them. I mean, it wasn't that hard to see the reason we lost to them. We had no answer for that defensively.

Footwedge

SQ_Crazies wrote:
Footwedge wrote:
SQ_Crazies wrote:
Footwedge wrote: But remember...you don't touch the Shaqtus, and you don't question the Fooqtas.
You are the epitome of a douche bag.
Buy a sense of humor.
Wasn't trying to be funny...

I was...asshole.

Footwedge

SQ_Crazies wrote: Also, could you provide me with a link to those 6-1 odds? Because your "facts" have clearly been a bit off tonight.

Here ya go Curly....the Cavs were 6 to 1 favorites over the Magic.

Danny Sheridan's odds: Cavaliers favored 6:1 for the series; Cavaliers 5:7 and Magic 15:1 against winning the NBA title

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2009-05-19-matchup-cavaliers-magic_N.htm

And from Vegas Insider......

"Series Price: Cleveland -600 Orlando +550" which in gamblese...it means lay $6 to win $1.

http://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/story.cfm/story/861738

Footwedge

SQ_Crazies wrote:
Footwedge wrote:
SQ_Crazies wrote: And if it's the Cavs/Magic again--no fucking shit they won't be a 6-1.
If the Cavs win the title this year you're still going to tell us last years team was better aren't you?
The best team on paper only. But the Cavs will be the World Champions...obviously.

Being the best team on paper only means that you have the best chance to win. In the big picture, it means nothing. Only the winners are remembered. That's part of the reason why so many forget how fuggin good the Cavs were.

Let me ask you a serious question here. If Anderson V tips in LBJ's second free throw with .05 left in game 4, do you think the Cavs win game 7?

And the second part of my question, if the Cavs would have won game 7, would you and others be crying over the "bad match ups" this year?

Ok, first of all, that's fucking hilarious that you could honestly say they were better last year if they win the title this year. I mean really, that's the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard.
The best team during the regular season doesn't always win a championship. If you can't grasp the concept, then you should quit posting on a sports forum. It's an easy concept to understand.

Um, why are we playing the if game? He didn't. I have no idea if they would have won game 7--I want to say yes because it would have been in the Q, but it would have been a toss up game just like the others.
I asked you a hypothetical...because it was a quarter inch from reality. Given the fact that the Cavs were 45 and 3 at home at that point, I would say the Cavs were a much better than 50-50 chance in winning game 7.

And then all the hyperbole and bullshit that we "didn't match up" would never have been slobbered over this entire past season. In fact, the Cavs probably beat the Lakers and then had a parade down Euclid Avenue. Just a quarter of an inch was all that was needed. And I won't even get into a discussion regarding game one...when all the Cavs had to do was foul Jameer Nelson up 2 with 15 seconds left. And the Cavs would have won that game as well.

And no, I wouldn't have thought the matchups were that much of a problem because we would have won the series. Those games were all toss ups basically, ON PAPER the Cavs were a hell of a lot better--the only difference was they were able to use unique abilities to their advantage.
Doublespeak much? Were the Cavs better or weren't they? Vegas says the Cavs were 6 to 1 favorites. are you smarter than the Vegas people?

Abilities like having a center good enough to keep FOUR guys on the perimeter and having 2 of those 4 guys stand basically at 7 feet--and when they're shooting over small guys they're on fire. When they're guarded by bigger guys they were blowing right by them. I mean, it wasn't that hard to see the reason we lost to them. We had no answer for that defensively.
The Cavaliers were the best defensive team in allowing a league low 33% from behind the arc last year. The Magic played way above their station in hitting such a high percentage. Inspite of this, the Cavs blew games 1 and 4 through sheer bad luck. Your memory blows, just sayin.

SQ_Crazies

How does my memory blow? I haven't made comments on why we lost the series. I simply pointed out your false notion that it was our backcourt. Mo was awful, but Delonte did play well, despite what you said. I think your memory is the one that blows.

All I said was that there were mismatches. Which was totally true. And mismatches lead to players playing above their averages. That's why they're mismatches. When you have a 6'11-7 footer shooting over Delonte West and you add the fact that there is 2 of them and they can both shoot pretty well--you're bound to let a guy go off for numbers better than his average. Now we could have survived those mismatches if it weren't for the biggest mismatch and that was in the paint. We had no answer for Howard--which made it impossible for us to help on the mismatches on the perimeter. Cleveland played and still does play a very team oriented defense. That's why when guys like Jamison join the team you see us give up so many easy baskets. They are all about defensive rotation--and it takes some getting used to to know where you're expected to go. But against that Magic team, that bit us in the ass because we weren't able to play our type of defense.

Now we don't have those matchup problems. First of all the Magic screwed themselves by getting Carter and playing to our strengths. They made the move to attack the Lakers--but they forgot how they beat the Cavs. On top of that, we add Parker and Moon--both tall, long and good perimeter defenders. Shaq to be able to at least slow Howard down in the paint. In fact he's done more than that against him this year, our addition of Shaq looked GREAT against the Magic in this regular season. That's why our team is better. Maybe the defensive numbers were better last year--but when I watch with my own two eyes I see a team that approaches the game with a different strategy than they did last year. For the vast majority of the year they've been cruising and going basket for basket with teams in the 1st half. They've given up a lot of 1st half points quite a few times this season. But then they clamp down in the 2nd half and especially in the last 5-6 minutes of the 4th and they put teams away. Last year it wasn't like that. Last year it was lets put a bunch of effort in on the defensive end and prepare for the 3rd quarter melt down. That happened far too many times. And last year they couldn't have cruised through the 1st half as easily as this year. This roster has much better scorers from top to bottom. Fact of the matter is, this years team is about as improved as you could possibly be from a 66 win team--and IMO, when you don't make the Finals, you can improve quite a bit. We did.

Footwedge

SQ_Crazies wrote: How does my memory blow? I haven't made comments on why we lost the series. I simply pointed out your false notion that it was our backcourt. Mo was awful, but Delonte did play well, despite what you said. I think your memory is the one that blows.

All I said was that there were mismatches. Which was totally true. And mismatches lead to players playing above their averages. That's why they're mismatches. When you have a 6'11-7 footer shooting over Delonte West and you add the fact that there is 2 of them and they can both shoot pretty well--you're bound to let a guy go off for numbers better than his average. Now we could have survived those mismatches if it weren't for the biggest mismatch and that was in the paint. We had no answer for Howard--which made it impossible for us to help on the mismatches on the perimeter. Cleveland played and still does play a very team oriented defense. That's why when guys like Jamison join the team you see us give up so many easy baskets. They are all about defensive rotation--and it takes some getting used to to know where you're expected to go. But against that Magic team, that bit us in the ass because we weren't able to play our type of defense.

Now we don't have those matchup problems. First of all the Magic screwed themselves by getting Carter and playing to our strengths. They made the move to attack the Lakers--but they forgot how they beat the Cavs. On top of that, we add Parker and Moon--both tall, long and good perimeter defenders. Shaq to be able to at least slow Howard down in the paint. In fact he's done more than that against him this year, our addition of Shaq looked GREAT against the Magic in this regular season. That's why our team is better. Maybe the defensive numbers were better last year--but when I watch with my own two eyes I see a team that approaches the game with a different strategy than they did last year. For the vast majority of the year they've been cruising and going basket for basket with teams in the 1st half. They've given up a lot of 1st half points quite a few times this season. But then they clamp down in the 2nd half and especially in the last 5-6 minutes of the 4th and they put teams away. Last year it wasn't like that. Last year it was lets put a bunch of effort in on the defensive end and prepare for the 3rd quarter melt down. That happened far too many times. And last year they couldn't have cruised through the 1st half as easily as this year. This roster has much better scorers from top to bottom. Fact of the matter is, this years team is about as improved as you could possibly be from a 66 win team--and IMO, when you don't make the Finals, you can improve quite a bit. We did.

Let me restate for you...apparently you didn't catch it the first time around...

The Cavaliers were the best defensive team in allowing a league low 33% from behind the arc last year. The Magic played way above their station in hitting such a high percentage.

Secondly, I read the stats you posted on DeLonte West, and you proved your point. I concede that I was wrong about him in the Magic Series. With that said, D West missed the game winning 18 foot baseline jumper that was uncontested in game one. Those things happen, but he hits that shot as often as he hits his free throws at 85%. It was a horrible miss in that situation.

If the Cavs win game one, then the Cavs win the series in 7. And then there's no bellyaching on how the Cavs "didn't match up".

SQ_Crazies

Footwedge wrote:
Let me restate for you...apparently you didn't catch it the first time around...

The Cavaliers were the best defensive team in allowing a league low 33% from behind the arc last year. The Magic played way above their station in hitting such a high percentage.

LOL, did you read my post? I addressed why that happened.

jpake1

Why do Cavs fans keep telling themselves the Magic played way above themselves and shot so good from behind the arc? They did shoot good from 3, but that's who they were. They shot 38% during the season and 40% during the series. They made .4 more per game during the Cavs series than the regular season. They shoot 38% against the Cavs during the regular season from beyond the arc and 48% from the field. Is that improvement? Yes, by a bit. But some of you guys make it seem like they shot 47% during the series when they were a 31% during the regular season. The Magic did what they had done against the Cavs during the regular season. Hell, they had their number for the majority of the past 10 games before the series. The Cavs didn't lose just because the Magic's tall players buried 3's at a way higher than normal rate. They lost because their OWN guys that buried 3's during the year weren't knocking them down as well with 6'9"+ guys in their face. It's been almost a year, and they still don't get the respect they deserve. Call it matchup problems or whatever you will, just make sure you mentioned they were better. Seems like some of you can't let the word better roll off your tongue, so you stick with this match up phrase, as if it lets you hold onto the thought you were still better. OK, done.

Footwedge

^^^You don't take into account the excellence of last year's team in defending the 3. It would be akin to a team that hit 280 for the regular season hitting 290 for a series, off of a staff that lead the league with a 3.00 ERA.

Secondly, there were 3 games that were decided by inches...2 of them went the Magic's way. The Magic won the series..they overcame a far superior team. Shit happens. Congrats to them. Hopefully the Cavs beat the crap out of them this year.

jpake1

Yes, I actually did. I know there were two ball clubs that were great 3pt shooters, and two clubs that were great defensive teams. One team was better at both.

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