Official 2010 Nascar thread: Season long discussions!!!!

• GoChiefs

  

  By policing themselves...I don't think they meant go out, wreck a car, potentially injuring the driver and/or fans. I'm pretty sure that's not what they had in mind. There will definitely be penalties/fines. No question about that.
• j_crazy

  

  plus if i'm keselowksi, the next time i'm having a bad day and edwards is putting me yet another lap down, i'm punting his fucking ass.
• Nate

  The first wreck Carl tried to make it sound like it was Brad's fault in the interview. He was hoping Brad would give him room. WTF is the point of giving room a few laps in the race when fighting for positions?
  
  Next time Carl, we'll let you jump to 1st on the last lap just because you think you should get it.
  
  Piss off Carl.
• Speedofsand

  

  The punishment should be added on for driving through pit row the wrong direction. He is having temper issues like Smoke had back in the day. Difference is it was everyone against Smoke, but nobody had a problem with Carl, he goes looking for it. I was there in Martinsville when Carl almost punched Kenseth right in front of the camera. I was shocked. Today I am still shocked and disappointed. You could see his white gloves turn the wheel into the 12.
  I don't see any fault with Brad. He has had a few incidents, but from the ones I've seen in Cup and Nationwide, others have hit him just as much. AND they were the same type wrecks that are called rookie mistakes for other drivers.
  It would be weird to see a guy suspended for rough driving from the place where rough driving is allowed. Shows how stupid Carl was, already 156 laps down. I gotta make a phone call about getting some "FREE CARL" t shirts.
• j_crazy

  

  are they going back to the spoiler and taking the wing off beginning with bristol?
• slide22

  GoChiefs wrote: By policing themselves...I don't think they meant go out, wreck a car, potentially injuring the driver and/or fans. I'm pretty sure that's not what they had in mind. There will definitely be penalties/fines. No question about that.

  I'm fine with a point/fine penalty, but hopefully no suspensions. Kurt Busch almost killed one of Smoke's crewman a few years ago and didn't get a suspension, so Edward's shouldn't for keeping the incident on the track.
  
  For those saying he should be suspended, would you feel different if Keselowski would have just spun and not flipped?
• j_crazy

  

  the outcome is uplanned, but the act was planned. It was heinous, it should be punished, I'm not sure if I like the suspension route. 150 points will do for me. thats essentially wiping out a race worth of points and sends the message. I'd also put him on probation and sit him if he crosses the line again. I'd also warn Keselowski cause you know he's festering right now, you can't put him on probation in my book because he did nothing wrong in either case yesterday (the past is the past).
• GoChiefs

  

  j_crazy wrote: are they going back to the spoiler and taking the wing off beginning with bristol?

  The spoiler starts at Martinsville.
  

  slide22 wrote: I'm fine with a point/fine penalty, but hopefully no suspensions. Kurt Busch almost killed one of Smoke's crewman a few years ago and didn't get a suspension, so Edward's shouldn't for keeping the incident on the track.
  
  For those saying he should be suspended, would you feel different if Keselowski would have just spun and not flipped?

  I don't think there will be a suspension. Just a fine, probation, and points reduction. I'm not sure if I'm even really for a suspension. Was it stupid for Carl to do what he did? Yes..of course. But..NASCAR said they were going to let the drivers go at it. I have no doubt Carl didn't expect what happened to happen. He figured he'd spin out into the wall or something. Which IMO..would have been the case had it not been for that wing. But b/c of the outcome and the severity of the wreck..I'm not against a suspension either. So..I guess it really doesn't matter to me as long as there is a fine and points reduction.
• ts1227

  

  Also, when they said police yourselves I don't think they expected a guy 150 laps down to drill a guy with 2 laps left in the same race.
  
  Usually, both cars are in the same boat (either they both got tangled up in a wreck and are both out of it, or are in contention but have been rather aggressive toward one another all day), and they don't wait until it's late enough to cause a G/W/C to take care of business. If it's that late it usually isn't "resolved" until the next race.
  
  It seems like Carl broke about every unrwitten rule there is regarding getting even.
• j_crazy

  

  3 race probation, no fine, no suspension. No mention of points taken.
  
  If this is all he gets, Keselowski should fuck him up whenever he gets a chance. This is bullshit.
  
  I'm telling you this, if the tables were turned and Carl were the one wrecked when he had a chance to win, Keselowski would be parked. NASCAR is as hypocritical as anything I've ever seen. Just tell us exactly why this was handled this way, don't say this bullshit about Carl didn't know the car would go airborn. He knew he was taking BK out of contention, that's the point. The wreck earlier in the race was as much CE's fault as BK's so this act was totally heinous in my book regardless of the outcome.
• Eric Taylor

  Really, really sad on the part of NASCAR that Edwards got a slap on the wrist.
  
  I really hope we dont have to go through another Dale Earnhardt situation.
• slide22

  j_crazy wrote: 3 race probation, no fine, no suspension. No mention of points taken.
  
  If this is all he gets, Keselowski should fuck him up whenever he gets a chance. This is bullshit.
  
  I'm telling you this, if the tables were turned and Carl were the one wrecked when he had a chance to win, Keselowski would be parked. NASCAR is as hypocritical as anything I've ever seen. Just tell us exactly why this was handled this way, don't say this bullshit about Carl didn't know the car would go airborn. He knew he was taking BK out of contention, that's the point. The wreck earlier in the race was as much CE's fault as BK's so this act was totally heinous in my book regardless of the outcome.

  Give me a break. NASCAR set themselves up for this when they told the drivers to have at it this year. What would have been hypocritical would have been if NASCAR suspended Carl Edwards for doing what they told him.
  
  And we wouldn't have this conversation if Keselowski wouldn't have flipped.
• j_crazy

  

  i've never said a suspension is warranted, but a fine and/or points deduction definitely is.
• slide22

  j_crazy wrote: i've never said a suspension is warranted, but a fine and/or points deduction definitely is.

  I could live with that. But it is what it is. If they get together in the next few weeks I'm sure there will be a stiffer penalty.
• GoChiefs

  

  I actually think this was a good move by NASCAR. I would have like to see something more harsh. But they said they were going to let the boys settle it themselves. They stayed true with what they said..for once. This sends a clear signal to the drivers that hey..just about anything is game. Do what you want.
• Speedofsand

  

  3 weeks is nothing. I bet they still let him test the spoiler. Hitting is allowed at Bristol and Martinsville, so what could you do to get in trouble ? I can't believe there is no fine. WTH ? That money goes to kids charity.
  
  I didn't expect a suspension because of what Nascar said in Jan. but I expected 100 pts for the wreck, probably about how many pts. the 12 lost. And at least $50K for driving the wrong way on pit road and his actions and comments.
  I'm not getting why some are saying its payback, both wrecks were Carl's fault.
  Nascar is taking the fake wrasslin publicity angle to get attention. Bristol will be a demo derby ! The sport has become a show.
  
  from Jayski
  No suspension for Edwards? UPDATES - probation only: A person familiar with the decision says #99-Carl Edwards will not be suspended for intentionally wrecking #12-Brad Keselowski's car during last weekend's NASCAR race in Atlanta. NASCAR president Mike Helton is to address the Edwards accident on Tuesday. The person familiar with the decision spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because Helton will be making the official statement. Edwards could face a fine or probation, but there had been an outcry for a severe penalty.(Associated Press)(3-9-2010)
  UPDATE: Carl Edwards has been placed on three weeks' probation by NASCAR for intentionally wrecking Brad Keselowski's car during last weekend's race at Atlanta. NASCAR president Mike Helton said Tuesday there are two separate issues: the wreck itself, and the fact that Keselowski's car went airborne. He says NASCAR is reviewing why the car left the track, and adds that NASCAR will meet with both drivers and their car owners to "clean the slate."(Associated Press) (3-9-2010)
  UPDATE 2: A statement from Brad Keselowski: "I support NASCAR in the decision they communicated today. They are not in an enviable position when it comes to these matters, but they do an outstanding job. The unfortunate part about what happened on Sunday is that it has overshadowed a win by the #2 Miller Lite Dodge and an overall solid performance by Penske Racing at Atlanta.(Penske PR)(3-9-2010)
• Speedofsand

  

  
  
  “We were willing to put more responsibility in the hands of the driver,” Helton said Tuesday. “But there is a line you can cross and we will step in and restore law and order if we think that line is crossed.”
  And where exactly is that line?
  “I think we see it when we see it,” Helton said.
  Helton tried to make a big deal about “parking” Edwards immediately after the incident in Atlanta, but it was hardly a penalty considering how many laps down Edwards was. And the three-race probation is essentially nothing.
  Helton’s idea on how to end the feud is to have “the two drivers talk it out.” Maybe at the end everyone can have lemonade.
  The entire Helton teleconference on Tuesday was pretty comical. Diane Sawyer’s interest in the story was mentioned and “Inside Edition” was even on hand to ask a question.
  
  yahoo link
  
  what a joke.
  
  NASCAR suspended Carl Long for 12 races this past May and fined his crew chief $200,000 for bringing an engine to the Sprint All-Star Race that was .17 cubic inches above the legal limit of 358.
  Long was docked 200 driver points, a NASCAR record. His wife and car owner, DeeDee Long, was penalized 200 owner points -- all for an infraction that, from all indications, was unintentional.
  
  nascar link
  
  "I'm thinking about asking for a refund for all my penalties," wrote Sprint Cup points leader Kevin Harvick.
• slide22

  Speedofsand wrote:
  
  “We were willing to put more responsibility in the hands of the driver,” Helton said Tuesday. “But there is a line you can cross and we will step in and restore law and order if we think that line is crossed.”
  And where exactly is that line?
  “I think we see it when we see it,” Helton said.
  Helton tried to make a big deal about “parking” Edwards immediately after the incident in Atlanta, but it was hardly a penalty considering how many laps down Edwards was. And the three-race probation is essentially nothing.
  Helton’s idea on how to end the feud is to have “the two drivers talk it out.” Maybe at the end everyone can have lemonade.
  The entire Helton teleconference on Tuesday was pretty comical. Diane Sawyer’s interest in the story was mentioned and “Inside Edition” was even on hand to ask a question.
  
  yahoo link
  
  what a joke.
  
  NASCAR suspended Carl Long for 12 races this past May and fined his crew chief $200,000 for bringing an engine to the Sprint All-Star Race that was .17 cubic inches above the legal limit of 358.
  Long was docked 200 driver points, a NASCAR record. His wife and car owner, DeeDee Long, was penalized 200 owner points -- all for an infraction that, from all indications, was unintentional.
  
  nascar link
  
  "I'm thinking about asking for a refund for all my penalties," wrote Sprint Cup points leader Kevin Harvick.

  Everybody bitches about how boring and dull the sport is, then once we get a decent rivalry and drivers showing emotion everyone wants to end it. Doesn't make sense.
• Speedofsand

  

  slide22 you missed my point. What kind of call is this after what they did to Carl Long ? They should have fined him big, for creating danger to others by the wreck and pit road driving. Besides, the $$$ really does go to charities. I never cared one way or the other about Brad, but I'll bet for all the wrecks that are his fault, I could find more by Stephen Wallace in the same time. Probably the same for Montoya's first couple years too.
  Sunday's wreck could have easily turned out just like another one I saw at Charlotte, the same track layout. Kerry Earnhardt and Blaise Alexander were racing to the white flag. One of them clipped the other just at the first dogleg. Kerry flipped and slid on his roof, sparks flying, all the way under the flagstand and then some. Alexander hit the wall head on with a sickening thud that shook my concrete seat 15 rows up. He was dead before the car stopped rolling. I see that pic of the 12 and think how lucky Brad and Carl both were.
  There will be plenty of emotion the next 2 races. The soap opera storyline is not scripted yet after that. Nascar will hope something exciting happens and try to sell tickets to the next show/race.
  
  
  
  Have at it, boys. Don't forget your Hans device.
• ts1227

  

  The sport is/was boring and dull because of the shitty car and restrictor plates, not because they couldn't plow into one another without consequence.
  
  The only really stupid rule they ever made was the "no bump drafting" the one year at Talladega.
• Eric Taylor

  You guys know like I do that if this had been Kyle Busch or Tony Stewart that NASCAR would have thrown the hammer at them.
• Terry_Tate

  

  The biggest joke about the penalty was that Mike Helton stated (essentially) their biggest reason for the light punishment was they parked Edwards as soon as the incident happened and felt that was a big deal. There was like 10 freaking laps left and Carl could only gain one spot! What a ridiculous thing to puff out your chest about on how tough of a penalty you gave him. If he would have been on the lead lap or one lap down then fine, that's a big penalty, but at most it cost Carl 3 points. What a ridiculous excuse. I'm all fine for letting the drivers handle it themselves and brewing some rivalries, but to let Carl get off with essentially pointing a finger in his face for one of the most dangerous "revenge" crashes I've seen gives them free reign to wreck each other at Talladega or Daytona or Texas, and I'm not so sure that's something NASCAR wants to do.
• Mr. 300

  

  Dale Jr is gay, and sucks too!!
• GoChiefs

  

  Speedofsand wrote: NASCAR suspended Carl Long for 12 races this past May and fined his crew chief $200,000 for bringing an engine to the Sprint All-Star Race that was .17 cubic inches above the legal limit of 358.
  Long was docked 200 driver points, a NASCAR record. His wife and car owner, DeeDee Long, was penalized 200 owner points -- all for an infraction that, from all indications, was unintentional.

  That .17 cubic inches will make a big difference between the cars. But that doesn't matter...this was a wreck...his was an equipment infraction. Not even comparable, IMO. Yes...I do believe Long was screwed...that essentially put him out of NASCAR. Which I believe was their intentions. But it's not like it was a minor infraction.
  

  ts1227 wrote: The sport is/was boring and dull because of the shitty car and restrictor plates, not because they couldn't plow into one another without consequence.

  Eh..a lot of people want to blame the car..which it hasn't helped. But NASCAR was getting pretty dull a couple years before the new car. It didn't just start when the new car was introduced.
  

  Eric Taylor wrote: You guys know like I do that if this had been Kyle Busch or Tony Stewart that NASCAR would have thrown the hammer at them.

  BS...the only reason he was given this lessened penalty was b/c of what they said at the beginning of the season...'Have out it boys'. They said they were going to let the drivers police themselves. If it hadn't been for that..I believe without a doubt...it would have been a MUCH stiffer penalty.
  

  Terry_Tate wrote: I'm not so sure that's something NASCAR wants to do.

  I think this is exactly what they want to do. Look at the attention it has brought them..they will do whatever it takes to get back to where they were. They want the wrecks. That's painfully obvious by the rule changes they have made. Letting drivers 'police' themselves, green white checkered, now you got 3 chances to get the race finished, double file restarts, etc...that is all just stuff that will increase chances of wrecks.
• ts1227

  

  GoChiefs wrote: Eh..a lot of people want to blame the car..which it hasn't helped. But NASCAR was getting pretty dull a couple years before the new car. It didn't just start when the new car was introduced.

  I also forgot to mention some of the shitty tracks that have been added at the expense of some good places recently. You could run a demolition derby at California and it would still be boring with no one in the stands to see it.
  
  It runs a lot deeper than lack of rivalry, nonetheless.