Browns at Bengals

• BR1986FB

  What's even more amazing about Pettine last night is that after the 4th down incompletion where the Browns were in the neutral zone, giving the Bengals a 1st down, Pettine said (twice) that "had we not committed that penalty, we hold them to a FG." He didn't know what down it was. He thought it was 3rd down. His awareness is severly lacking.
  
  And as far as the Hue Jackson comments.....would he really want to coach this dumpster fire?
• Azubuike24

  

  I'm not sure Hue would want Manziel. However, I think Cleveland would be a good spot for him.
• SportsAndLady

  

  BR1986FB;1761506 wrote:What's even more amazing about Pettine last night is that after the 4th down incompletion where the Browns were in the neutral zone, giving the Bengals a 1st down, Pettine said (twice) that "had we not committed that penalty, we hold them to a FG." He didn't know what down it was. He thought it was 3rd down. His awareness is severly lacking.
  
  And as far as the Hue Jackson comments.....would he really want to coach this dumpster fire?

  Oh Jesus don't be so dramatic. Yes, he would want to be a head coach in the NFL. Those guys aren't just contempt (outside of a few exceptions) with being an assistant their whole career.
  
  The Browns are a "dumpster fire" (hate that term) right now because their head coach is a buffoon and their quarterbacks suck. Get a good coach and a good QB and they're good to go. I know easier said than done but the point remains they are basically two human beings away from contending in the afc.
• BR1986FB

  SportsAndLady;1761513 wrote: Get a good coach and a good QB and they're good to go. I know easier said than done but the point remains they are basically two human beings away from contending in the afc.

  Apparently, we're not watching the same games because it's not going to be that simple. I think we've already discussed their "sucktitude" at various positions. Just throwing a good QB in there (assuming the HC is competent) isn't going to be the Band-Aid. I used to think that was the cure all too. This team is lacking so much talent it's scary.
• HitsRus

  

  IggyPride00;1761452 wrote:Pettine would rather lose doing it his way than win doing it Johnny's way.
  
  That halftime interview about calming him down told us everything we needed to know. Guy played his best half of his career probably and he was pissed he was free lancing instead of being a statue in the pocket like McCown. He is just totally disconnected from reality and this fan base.
  
  Most coaches would have been fired up their young QB showed up ready to play on the road against an undefeated team on a short week, but Mike Pettine was worried about the fact Johny wasn't doing it his way in the heat of the moment.
  
  He is exactly the bum I said he was when he was hired. Probably the most entitled, stubborn and arrogant coach I can remember in Cleveland, and given how thin his resume is it is breath taking.

  For a guy who doesn't get a lot of respect around here, you sure nailed it. I can't remember the talking head(NFL network) that was expounding on it, but he was talking about Pettine wanting Johnny to stay in the pocket....and he was almost livid...."But that's exactly what the Bengals want!"
  
  Pettine reminds me of the Eric Wedge/Derek Shelton era in Tribe history, and the Brandon Phillips fiasco. They were so intent of forcing Phillips to hit in their system, trying to change his swing that he was in their doghouse. In reality, it was their own inflexibility of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole that led to the team losing an all star second baseman. Don't get me wrong, I'm not ready to anoint JFF as an allstar, but it illustrates the inflexibility that Pettine has as a coach and and as leader. If you want JFF to succeed, then you are going to have to allow Johnny to be Johnny...and play to his strengths, not confine him within a system(and a losing one at that) that doesn't suit his game.
• SportsAndLady

  

  BR1986FB;1761518 wrote:Apparently, we're not watching the same games because it's not going to be that simple. I think we've already discussed their "sucktitude" at various positions. Just throwing a good QB in there (assuming the HC is competent) isn't going to be the Band-Aid. I used to think that was the cure all too. This team is lacking so much talent it's scary.

  If you have a good QB and coach, you can have some holes in talent at certain positions.
  
  The patriots have holes. You can't be perfect everywhere.
• friendfromlowry

  SportsAndLady;1761531 wrote:If you have a good QB and coach, you can have some holes in talent at certain positions.
  
  The patriots have holes. You can't be perfect everywhere.

  Not a fan of that comparison. The Patriots have the best QB and the best coach.
• Footwedge

  HitsRus;1761519 wrote:For a guy who doesn't get a lot of respect around here, you sure nailed it. I can't remember the talking head(NFL network) that was expounding on it, but he was talking about Pettine wanting Johnny to stay in the pocket....and he was almost livid...."But that's exactly what the Bengals want!"
  
  Pettine reminds me of the Eric Wedge/Derek Shelton era in Tribe history, and the Brandon Phillips fiasco. They were so intent of forcing Phillips to hit in their system, trying to change his swing that he was in their doghouse. In reality, it was their own inflexibility of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole that led to the team losing an all star second baseman. Don't get me wrong, I'm not ready to anoint JFF as an allstar, but it illustrates the inflexibility that Pettine has as a coach and and as leader. If you want JFF to succeed, then you are going to have to allow Johnny to be Johnny...and play to his strengths, not confine him within a system(and a losing one at that) that doesn't suit his game.

  That's well said Hits but in reality. Manziel, inspite of what all the shitforbrains claim is very good at throwing the ball from the pocket. It's not his fault that his o-line is the worst in all of football which forces him out to do Houdini. Renowned Johnny basher, Bruce Hooley was saying on his show tonight that Manziel has never thrown a good pass from the pocket in his life. LO effin L.
  
  Here...finally...we have a quarterback who has a really strong arm, extremely accurate both short and long, and the rare ability to ad lib like we've never seen in this town...and the collective shit balls want to run him out of ton. I'm not sure who's dumber... Mike Pettine...or the collection of media assholes that do sports talk radio around here.
• Footwedge

  rrfan;1761454 wrote:I could care less weather Pettine stays or goes but are you really going to tell me that Manziel is the answer? There is no way you are serious.

  You are an idiot. Anybody with a football IQ above 50 would agree that Manziel played really, really well against the unbeaten Bengals, in his 4th career start, on prime time TV, with a horrible supporting cast.
• DeyDurkie5

  

  Footwedge;1761534 wrote:That's well said Hits but in reality. Manziel, inspite of what all the shitforbrains claim is very good at throwing the ball from the pocket. It's not his fault that his o-line is the worst in all of football which forces him out to do Houdini. Renowned Johnny basher, Bruce Hooley was saying on his show tonight that Manziel has never thrown a good pass from the pocket in his life. LO effin L.
  
  Here...finally...we have a quarterback who has a really strong arm, extremely accurate both short and long, and the rare ability to ad lib like we've never seen in this town...and the collective shit balls want to run him out of ton. I'm not sure who's dumber... Mike Pettine...or the collection of media assholes that do sports talk radio around here.

  2nd best line in football
• Al Bundy

  Footwedge;1761535 wrote:You are an idiot. Anybody with a football IQ above 50 would agree that Manziel played really, really well against the unbeaten Bengals, in his 4th career start, on prime time TV, with a horrible supporting cast.

  If what we saw last night was "really, really well," then McCown must be a hall of famer.
• Classyposter58

  

  Can I ask Browns fans a serious question? What really is the big deal with McCown? I only really catch them on Redzone channel but still 11 TDs 4 INT and 65% completion is pretty damn solid and he looks like a decent QB considering he has almost no weapons. Why would you want Manziel over that?
• Al Bundy

  Classyposter58;1761541 wrote:Can I ask Browns fans a serious question? What really is the big deal with McCown? I only really catch them on Redzone channel but still 11 TDs 4 INT and 65% completion is pretty damn solid and he looks like a decent QB considering he has almost no weapons. Why would you want Manziel over that?

  His age on a rebuilding team is the big issue.
• SportsAndLady

  

  friendfromlowry;1761533 wrote:Not a fan of that comparison. The Patriots have the best QB and the best coach.

  Didn't mean to make a comparison...just saying they have holes.
  
  Just saying you don't need to have a perfect team...you need good coaching, a good QB, and defensive playmakers. And you're basically a playoff team every year.
• friendfromlowry

  Classyposter58;1761541 wrote:Can I ask Browns fans a serious question? What really is the big deal with McCown? I only really catch them on Redzone channel but still 11 TDs 4 INT and 65% completion is pretty damn solid and he looks like a decent QB considering he has almost no weapons. Why would you want Manziel over that?

  Not really that complicated. McCown isn't their franchise QB at his age. Maybe Manziel is, maybe he isn't. But they need an idea of what he's capable of before the season ends.
• BR1986FB

  SportsAndLady;1761544 wrote:Didn't mean to make a comparison...just saying they have holes.
  
  Just saying you don't need to have a perfect team...you need good coaching, a good QB, and defensive playmakers. And you're basically a playoff team every year.

  There's a difference in not having a "perfect team" and having "holes" pretty much everywhere. The Browns don't have a whole lot, right now, to build off of.
  
  If there was a Tom Brady type QB in this draft who would make an immediate impact, I might be potentially swayed by your argument, but there's not. They aren't going to find someone that is going to cover up all of these major blemishes. We are looking at least 3 years before we can say the "P" word.
• BR1986FB

  Classyposter58;1761541 wrote:Can I ask Browns fans a serious question? What really is the big deal with McCown? I only really catch them on Redzone channel but still 11 TDs 4 INT and 65% completion is pretty damn solid and he looks like a decent QB considering he has almost no weapons. Why would you want Manziel over that?

  McCown has done nothing to lose this job. In fact, he's done more than many expected. It's not his fault they are a crapfest but as many have implied, the season is over and it's time to evaluate Manziel.
• isadore

  BR1986FB;1761560 wrote:There's a difference in not having a "perfect team" and having "holes" pretty much everywhere. The Browns don't have a whole lot, right now, to build off of.
  
  If there was a Tom Brady type QB in this draft who would make an immediate impact, I might be potentially swayed by your argument, but there's not. They aren't going to find someone that is going to cover up all of these major blemishes. We are looking at least 3 years before we can say the "P" word.

  gosh a ruddies nobody knew there was a Tom Brady type quarterback in the draft in 2000 or he would not have had to wait until the sixth round to be drafted.
• Uz2Bon36

  

  Classyposter58;1761541 wrote:Can I ask Browns fans a serious question? What really is the big deal with McCown? I only really catch them on Redzone channel but still 11 TDs 4 INT and 65% completion is pretty damn solid and he looks like a decent QB considering he has almost no weapons. Why would you want Manziel over that?

  The decision makers spent the $ drafting him, might as well give him a chance to play. His 92-yard drive was enough to sell some in NEO.
• SportsAndLady

  

  BR1986FB;1761560 wrote:There's a difference in not having a "perfect team" and having "holes" pretty much everywhere. The Browns don't have a whole lot, right now, to build off of.
  
  If there was a Tom Brady type QB in this draft who would make an immediate impact, I might be potentially swayed by your argument, but there's not. They aren't going to find someone that is going to cover up all of these major blemishes. We are looking at least 3 years before we can say the "P" word.

  Jesus you're insufferable. Do you not understand what good coaching and what an efficient offense can do to your team? IT COVERS UP THE FUCKING HOLES.
  
  Look at Oakland. They don't really have a very good defense but their defense looks okay because of coaching and because Carr is actually a good QB and is running an efficient offense.
  
  It's really not hard to comprehend: Browns need a coach. Browns need a QB. When they get those two things, they will be playoff contenders from day one.
  
  But yes keep being dramatic and screaming "there's holes everywhere we need at least three more years to fill holes and then maybe we can contend with the P word that I don't even like saying the whole word because we aren't even close hot takes hot takes hot takes!!!!!!"
• BR1986FB

  SportsAndLady;1761575 wrote:Jesus you're insufferable. Do you not understand what good coaching and what an efficient offense can do to your team? IT COVERS UP THE FUCKING HOLES.
  
  Look at Oakland. They don't really have a very good defense but their defense looks okay because of coaching and because Carr is actually a good QB and is running an efficient offense.
  
  It's really not hard to comprehend: Browns need a coach. Browns need a QB. When they get those two things, they will be playoff contenders from day one.
  
  But yes keep being dramatic and screaming "there's holes everywhere we need at least three more years to fill holes and then maybe we can contend with the P word that I don't even like saying the whole word because we aren't even close hot takes hot takes hot takes!!!!!!"

  QB hasn't been the issue this year. Again, how fucking DUMB are you? I used to think like you that a QB would cover up all of these blemishes. It won't. McCown has done much better than most anticipated and they are still getting smoked because the defense is a fucking sieve. Teams like Pittsburgh can win shootouts because they have a high octane offense, with weapons. The Browns don't.
  
  You use Oakland as an example. Carr is doing well because he has the best WR in football (right now) in Cooper and a solid possession guy in Crabtree. The Browns have guys like Benjamin and a bunch of midgets. Yeah, they can draft a WR but they're probably going to burn their top three pick on that "one man team, that's all we need, QB will win the games by himself, we need NOTHING else" QB. Which means they aren't likely getting that "go to/#1" WR in the 2nd round or later.
• Al Bundy

  BR1986FB;1761560 wrote:There's a difference in not having a "perfect team" and having "holes" pretty much everywhere. The Browns don't have a whole lot, right now, to build off of.
  
  If there was a Tom Brady type QB in this draft who would make an immediate impact, I might be potentially swayed by your argument, but there's not. They aren't going to find someone that is going to cover up all of these major blemishes. We are looking at least 3 years before we can say the "P" word.

  If you get to about 9 wins, you have a shot at the playoffs. There are mediocre teams that make it every year. If the Browns (or any other team) had good coaching, good qb play, and good talent evaluation in the offseason, it is possible. We got to 7 wins last year without any of the previously mentioned things. I know you are going to say that the 7 wins were because we played the nfc south and afc south, but only 4 of the 7 wins came from those divisions.
• SportsAndLady

  

  BR1986FB;1761576 wrote:QB hasn't been the issue this year. Again, how fucking DUMB are you? I used to think like you that a QB would cover up all of these blemishes. It won't. McCown has done much better than most anticipated and they are still getting smoked because the defense is a fucking sieve. Teams like Pittsburgh can win shootouts because they have a high octane offense, with weapons. The Browns don't.
  
  You use Oakland as an example. Carr is doing well because he has the best WR in football (right now) in Cooper and a solid possession guy in Crabtree. The Browns have guys like Benjamin and a bunch of midgets. Yeah, they can draft a WR but they're probably going to burn their top three pick on that "one man team, that's all we need, QB will win the games by himself, we need NOTHING else" QB. Which means they aren't likely getting that "go to/#1" WR in the 2nd round or later.

  QB hasn't been the issue this year? REALLY?!
  
  A good QB covers up blemishes..it's a fucking fact. Not sure why you're arguing against that. You're just plain wrong.
  
  Carr is doing well because Carr is a good QB.
  
  Amari Cooper ist he best WR in football right now? LOL are you already drunk at the casino? He's had just three 100 yard games, and four games with under 50 yards receiving. Fuck do you even watch football?
  
  You mention Benjamin...if Cooper is the best receiver in football with 38 catches, 565 yards, and 3 TD's, then what is Benjamin with his 41 catches, 623 yards, and 4 TD's?
  
  You're a joke
• friendfromlowry

  Yeah the Cooper as best WR right now is a head scratcher for me as well.
• BR1986FB

  Al Bundy;1761577 wrote:If you get to about 9 wins, you have a shot at the playoffs. There are mediocre teams that make it every year. If the Browns (or any other team) had good coaching, good qb play, and good talent evaluation in the offseason, it is possible. We got to 7 wins last year without any of the previously mentioned things. I know you are going to say that the 7 wins were because we played the nfc south and afc south, but only 4 of the 7 wins came from those divisions.

  I'm basing my comments off of S&L's "all you need is a good coach and good QB and you're good to go" comment, which is bullshit.
  
  This defense flat out sucks. Not a player I wouldn't trade for a sack of peanuts and that includes the overhyped Haden.
  
  He's also assuming a good QB is going to instantly make guys like Bowe get open or Gabriel catch passes. I'm fine with bringing in a QB but if he thinks this is a one year fix, with the current "talent" in place? Not very likely.
  
  I'm not arguing that they don't need a franchise QB. I've been one of the ones saying "get the QB with the top 3 pick", assuming there's one worth it. But to say "all you need is a coach and a QB" when this defense is pretty damn close to the worst in football is asinine.
  
  And I should've prefaced my Amari Cooper comment with "best YOUNG WR in football." I'm sure that can be debated with Odell Beckhan but I'd take Cooper, right now, if I were starting a team. JMO