2015-2016 Cleveland Cavaliers World Champions!
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sleeper
You keep pointing out #1 in saying it doesn't matter however that is entirely untrue. The Cavs had options for sign and trades with Love if they really didn't want him and that alone can provide flexibility in the roster and financially by having smaller easier to move contracts. There were other options, but the Cavs thought his previous season made him worth a max deal. They chose poorly.HighRoller74;1776628 wrote:1.) Cavs are over the cap with or without Love, 0 roster flexibility either way.
2.) If Love was a FA there would be a line of teams willing to give him the same contract he has right now, this past off-season proves that.
3.) Cavs do need to bring in another PF, James Jones can't play real minutes for this team.
4.) Team is deeper now with Love, than it would be with Wiggins which is my point.
And point #4 is entirely false. If we still had Wiggins we would have had significant cap savings since you also could make the assumption that we wouldn't have JR, Shumpert, or Movgoz(or Love). That alone is about $40M in savings without including the premium we paid on TT because of our weak negotiating position. -
SportsAndLady
Love is on a winning team, playing multiple games in prime time.HighRoller74;1776625 wrote:Love is not great on defense, I definitely agree, but statically he's far better than Wiggins has been this season.
Wiggins is on the fucking T-Wolves, when was the last time they played a game on tnt or ESPN?
Point is...put Wiggins on the cavs from day 1 and the effort would be there to improve on D. He's simply not trying in Minnesota.
Note: not saying him not trying is an excuse for Wiggins. I hate when players slack off because their team sucks. But it does happen, and skews their ratings. -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
traded soon? who wants his contract lolsleeper;1776605 wrote:BTW, no doubt AV is traded soon. He won't be on the team next year anyway. -
Lovejoy1984
At this point, all the back and forth about Wiggins/Love is just arguing To hear/see ourselves argue. I firmly believe we're a better team with Love and the other moves we've made, and you guys feel the team will be better with Wiggins, and any hypothetical moves that might've been made.
I agree love has came up small this season in the the few big games we've played. But he's still averaging a double double this season and shouldn't be relied upon to carry the team once we get to the post season.
Is anyone else worried about Kyrie these last couple games, he was torched on defense and was just bad on offense. Do you think it's just getting back in to shape, or do we have a problem on our hands with him when we get to the post season. -
lhslep134
You can yell this from the top of the trees for all mankind to hear and it doesn't make the game any more relevant.BR1986FB;1776549 wrote:I agree with this. You'd hope the team would at least show up, especially after Curry's "champagne" comments before the game. No heart, no guts last night. Very disappointing. Playoff basketball will be different but Chris Webber's comments were spot on when he said "the Warriors look like the team who lost in the Finals" (referring to how hungry they looked).
For a championship caliber team, an individual regular season game is completely meaningless. Please point me to a source making a legitimate argument otherwise. -
lhslep134
SportsAndLady;1776641 wrote:
Point is...put Wiggins on the cavs from day 1 and the effort would be there to improve on D. He's simply not trying in Minnesota.
Note: not saying him not trying is an excuse for Wiggins. I hate when players slack off because their team sucks. But it does happen, and skews their ratings.
You can't just say that a number 1 stud who already has effort issues on a shitty team would all of a sudden try a lot harder when he's the number 3 option on a great team. It's completely unknown if his effort level would improve. It's not like he showed consistent effort at Kansas either. -
Automatik
You're kidding yourself if you think last nights game was "meaningless." Do you think the players feel that way? LeBron?
"Just got rolled by 34 in our house, no big deal." :laugh: -
lhslep134
Automatik;1776654 wrote:You're kidding yourself if you think last nights game was "meaningless." Do you think the players feel that way? LeBron?
You're being extraordinarily ignorant if you believe the outcome of a single regular season game has any impact on the Cavaliers' chances of winning the Finals.
Like I said, it sucked to watch that shitty performance but it has ZERO impact on what happens in June. -
Automatik
A direct impact? Maybe not.
A precursor the future? Yeah.
Care to answer my question regarding the players? -
Automatik
Imagine if you were in attendance. I had a group of friends there, paid out the ass for tickets to view that beating.lhslep134;1776655 wrote:
Like I said, it sucked to watch that shitty performance but it has ZERO impact on what happens in June. -
like_that
There is definitely an impact, but hopefully it will be a positive reminder to the players that the Cavs are not where they need to be. -
lhslep134
I did.Automatik;1776656 wrote: Care to answer my question regarding the players?
lhslep134;1776655 wrote: it has ZERO impact on what happens in June.
I don't give a fuck if Lebron's feelz are hurt because of a regular season game. It. Doesn't. Impact. What. Happens. In. June. -
Automatik
Still not "meaningless." Good day!
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sleeper
He is only on a guaranteed contract through the end of this year. His last 2 years are non-guaranteed.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1776642 wrote:traded soon? who wants his contract lol
He could be traded to a team who wants to shed salary and the Cavs can get assets + a player for helping. -
BR1986FB
Wait, what happened to the "best roster in the NBA" stuff you've been spewing?sleeper;1776602 wrote: The Cavs need to make a roster change at this point. The roster isn't as deep as you think it is. -
sleeper
This 100%. This was a big loss and a signal that the Cavs are nowhere near where they need to be.Automatik;1776654 wrote:You're kidding yourself if you think last nights game was "meaningless." Do you think the players feel that way? LeBron?
"Just got rolled by 34 in our house, no big deal." :laugh: -
sleeper
Two points:HighRoller74;1776651 wrote:At this point, all the back and forth about Wiggins/Love is just arguing To hear/see ourselves argue. I firmly believe we're a better team with Love and the other moves we've made, and you guys feel the team will be better with Wiggins, and any hypothetical moves that might've been made.
I agree love has came up small this season in the the few big games we've played. But he's still averaging a double double this season and shouldn't be relied upon to carry the team once we get to the post season.
Is anyone else worried about Kyrie these last couple games, he was torched on defense and was just bad on offense. Do you think it's just getting back in to shape, or do we have a problem on our hands with him when we get to the post season.
#1) Love is the second highest paid player on the team. He should absolutely be relied on to "carry" the team in the post season along with Lebron and Irving. Love isn't a rotational player, he's supposed to be a star and a key piece. Right now, he's dog shit.
#2) I'm not worried about Irving. I think he is still not 100% in sync but hopefully that will come as the season progresses. -
sleeper
On paper they are the best team in the NBA. On paper, Love is a top 10 player in the NBA. On paper, TT is the best 6th man in the NBA.BR1986FB;1776663 wrote:Wait, what happened to the "best roster in the NBA" stuff you've been spewing?
On paper, the Cavs are the 2015 NBA champions. Reality is telling us differently. Reality is telling us we have the best roster in the East. Reality is that we are not as good as GSW right now. Reality is telling us we need to get better. -
sleeper
I think you are being a bit obtuse in saying it doesn't matter. Sure, its 1 loss and no loss is more significant than any other in the regular season. The Cavs are going to be the #1 seed in the East and should be a shoe-in to the NBA finals.lhslep134;1776660 wrote:I don't give a fuck if Lebron's feelz are hurt because of a regular season game. It. Doesn't. Impact. What. Happens. In. June.
However, their recent losses to GSW and the Spurs are a big signal and are meaningful. They signify that the Cavs may not be where they need to be and if something doesn't change you can't with any confidence say the Cavs are the NBA favorites. With the roster they have and the money for that roster, the Cavs should be dominating the NBA right now. They just got blown out, at home, to their probable opponent in the NBA finals. That is not meaningless. -
Mulva
I think the finals are going to be the same scenario as last year. The west will have the best team (whether spurs or warriors), the cavs have the best player. Lebron is always the great equalizer.
As long as we play in the east and he's on the roster, there are only 4 games worth worrying about. -
BR1986FB
They don't have the mindset of a championship caliber team. Plus, I think both coaches (Kerr & Pop) will outcoach Blatt. The clock is ticking on Lebron's prime. I think it's a very small window to bring a ring to Cleveland.sleeper;1776668 wrote:I think you are being a bit obtuse in saying it doesn't matter. Sure, its 1 loss and no loss is more significant than any other in the regular season. The Cavs are going to be the #1 seed in the East and should be a shoe-in to the NBA finals.
However, their recent losses to GSW and the Spurs are a big signal and are meaningful. They signify that the Cavs may not be where they need to be and if something doesn't change you can't with any confidence say the Cavs are the NBA favorites. With the roster they have and the money for that roster, the Cavs should be dominating the NBA right now. They just got blown out, at home, to their probable opponent in the NBA finals. That is not meaningless. -
sleeper
Lebron has regressed a bit. He's no doubt still arguably the best player in the NBA but he's not what he used to be. I think his plan is that Love and Irving, allegedly "all-stars", would start taking a majority of the minutes and contribute a high volume of points. The reality is, Love has been complete dogshit and Irving has been plagued with injury for a good chunk of his time with Lebron in Cleveland. TT has been okay, AV is garbage. The rest of the supporting cast has been okay too but the reality is its on Love and Irving to start playing to their max contract value. I have confidence Irving will recover and contribute at a high level; I'm almost ready to write off Love entirely as trash tier garbage.BR1986FB;1776671 wrote:They don't have the mindset of a championship caliber team. Plus, I think both coaches (Kerr & Pop) will outcoach Blatt. The clock is ticking on Lebron's prime. I think it's a very small window to bring a ring to Cleveland. -
sleeper
True. However, I think the gap between GSW and the Cavs is too big at this point. I'd rather play the Spurs honestly and I wouldn't have said that at the start of the season. GSW has the personnel to beat the Cavs and they've proven it this year despite the full roster being available in Cleveland.Mulva;1776670 wrote:I think the finals are going to be the same scenario as last year. The west will have the best team (whether spurs or warriors), the cavs have the best player. Lebron is always the great equalizer.
As long as we play in the east and he's on the roster, there are only 4 games worth worrying about.
Spurs? They are better but in a 4 game series I would take the Cavs. Our biggest hope is the Spurs knock off GSW but I doubt it. -
BR1986FB
I agree with most of this. I haven't given up on Love but I think that's exactly what LBJ's plan is....to be the "third wheel" as his skills decline, and let Love & KI run the show.sleeper;1776674 wrote:Lebron has regressed a bit. He's no doubt still arguably the best player in the NBA but he's not what he used to be. I think his plan is that Love and Irving, allegedly "all-stars", would start taking a majority of the minutes and contribute a high volume of points. The reality is, Love has been complete dogshit and Irving has been plagued with injury for a good chunk of his time with Lebron in Cleveland. TT has been okay, AV is garbage. The rest of the supporting cast has been okay too but the reality is its on Love and Irving to start playing to their max contract value. I have confidence Irving will recover and contribute at a high level; I'm almost ready to write off Love entirely as trash tier garbage. -
SportsAndLady
I just. Can't see how you can say last nights game was meaningless. It was an eye opener to the players, coaches, management, and fans (irrelevant, but still) that we are not a championship caliber team yet.
That being said, I think Kyrie will come around. His injury has plagued him even in his playing time this year. That will change as he gets more game-ready.
Also, I think we'll make a move in the next month. A significant move. There are a lot of big time players out there who's teams are looking to trade them this season. I'm hoping someone like Sacramento takes Love and AV and his contract and a few draft picks for Cousins. Greg Monroe is in that same category as well.
We need to make a move though. Going forward with the lineup as is, even if they start to build better chemistry, is still probably not enough to beat GSW or the Spurs.