2015 Browns Offseason Thread
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BR1986FB
Oh, I know that 1st round picks are valuable, or in the Browns case, SHOULD be valuable.lhslep134;1721748 wrote:Whether Cleveland, or any team, botches a pick or not has no bearing on that pick's value. -
like_that
If they did their jobs correctly those draft picks would be 100x more valuable than trading for a player on the wrong side of 30. Hey tom Brady and Peyton have played in their mate 30s that means rivers can! Also just because the Browns have had a horrible track record since 1999 with their draft picks doesn't mean the value of a draft pick has decreased. That's beyond stupid logic. I put it on par with, we must get weeden, so we don't see McCoy play anymore!!!BR1986FB;1721747 wrote:And nobody overvalues draft picks like Cleveland fans...especially when the shitty GM's tend to fuck up 13 out of 16 first rounders since 1999. But I get it....the draft is the Browns fans' "Christmas" since there's nothing else to cheer about. -
BR1986FB
That's a huge "if."like_that;1721750 wrote:If they did their jobs correctly -
like_that
I like farmer and pettines ability to evaluate talent. Even if it is a big if, it still is not a logically reason to trade away picks.BR1986FB;1721751 wrote:That's a huge "if." -
like_that
Also it's convenient for your argument to avoid the fact that we traded away a lot of assets to take a short cut and go for it all in 2008.
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Sonofanump
Not sold yet:like_that;1721752 wrote:I like farmer and pettines ability to evaluate talent. Even if it is a big if, it still is not a logically reason to trade away picks.
Neither Gilbert nor Manziel would be drafted again in the first round by anyone if they re-drafted.
Bitonio would go in the 20's and West would go slightly higher. -
like_that
Don't forget about kirksey who is already a starter and the UDFA rookies who contributed to the team.Sonofanump;1721787 wrote:Not sold yet:
Neither Gilbert nor Manziel would be drafted again in the first round by anyone if they re-drafted.
Bitonio would go in the 20's and West would go slightly higher.
I am not even close to giving up on Gilbert. As for manziel, if we gave weeden 2 full seasons to evaluate I sure as hell am not going to throw manziel under the bus after 1.5 games.
The panic in this thread is ridiculous. Some of you all need to place your own personal gag order on la confora articles. -
Sonofanump
I disagree, Gilbert and Manziel are big misses. Gilbert plays like a fourth-fifth round pick. No panic here, I am not saying they won't do well in the draft, I am not sold "yet" that they are great talent evaulators.like_that;1721789 wrote:Don't forget about kirksey who is already a starter and the UDFA rookies who contributed to the team.
I am not even close to giving up on Gilbert. As for manziel, if we gave weeden 2 full seasons to evaluate I sure as hell am not going to throw manziel under the bus after 1.5 games.
The panic in this thread is ridiculous. Some of you all need to place your own personal gag order on la confora article. -
like_that
I should have clarified I wasn't referring to you as somebody who is panicking. I will bet you we will see a much improved Gilbert this upcoming season though.Sonofanump;1721802 wrote:I disagree, Gilbert and Manziel are big misses. Gilbert plays like a fourth-fifth round pick. No panic here, I am not saying they won't do well in the draft, I am not sold "yet" that they are great talent evaulators. -
lhslep134
Who would you have taken at 8? Beckham and Evans did a great job of helping their teams to the playoffs...Julio Jones has been well worth mortgaging their future flexibility for the Falcons...Sonofanump;1721802 wrote:I disagree, Gilbert and Manziel are big misses... I am not sold "yet" that they are great talent evaulators.
My sarcastic response is because I'm with the FO in that you don't need to draft a WR high. You need to address the position, but not at the expense of filling more worthwhile holes with a 1st round talent. It's fair to not be sold on the FO as talent evaluators, but I'm not sure using Gilbert is your best argument, especially when it takes corners longer than their rookie year to succeed in this league. If you have a good argument for who the Browns clearly should have taken over Gilbert at 8* I'm all ears.
*FWIW I wanted Aaron Donald or Kyle Fuller once you account for the FO's refusal to take a WR there. -
Commander of Awesome
I wanted Greg Robinson, Mack, or TBW. I would have loved to watch Mack pwn rapistfucker this past season, but would still do that trade with Buffalo.lhslep134;1721805 wrote:Who would you have taken at 8? Beckham and Evans did a great job of helping their teams to the playoffs...Julio Jones has been well worth mortgaging their future flexibility for the Falcons...
My sarcastic response is because I'm with the FO in that you don't need to draft a WR high. You need to address the position, but not at the expense of filling more worthwhile holes with a 1st round talent. It's fair to not be sold on the FO as talent evaluators, but I'm not sure using Gilbert is your best argument, especially when it takes corners longer than their rookie year to succeed in this league. If you have a good argument for who the Browns clearly should have taken over Gilbert at 8* I'm all ears.
*FWIW I wanted Aaron Donald or Kyle Fuller once you account for the FO's refusal to take a WR there. -
lhslep134
I tend to agree but that's definitely interesting to think about (whether foregoing Mack at #4 was worth getting Gilbert and #19)Commander of Awesome;1721809 wrote:I wanted Greg Robinson, Mack, or TBW. I would have loved to watch Mack pwn rapistfucker this past season, but would still do that trade with Buffalo. -
Commander of Awesome
depends on JFF/Gilbert + 1st/4th rounder this yr.lhslep134;1721812 wrote:I tend to agree but that's definitely interesting to think about (whether foregoing Mack at #4 was worth getting Gilbert and #19)
I'm not a JFF believer, but dont think he's trash. I can envision him being solid back up if he gets his head out of his ass. Gilbert I'm a believer in still. He showed some progress last season, and by all accounts is maturing.
Plus what was stated about CB needing a longer transition time in the NFL is absolutely correct. I expect to see him/Desir play very well this season. Also hoping to see him return some kicks for godsakes. That makes no fucking sense why he didn't do that last season. -
Sonofanumplhslep134;1721805 wrote:Who would you have taken at 8? Beckham and Evans did a great job of helping their teams to the playoffs...Julio Jones has been well worth mortgaging their future flexibility for the Falcons...
My sarcastic response is because I'm with the FO in that you don't need to draft a WR high. You need to address the position, but not at the expense of filling more worthwhile holes with a 1st round talent. It's fair to not be sold on the FO as talent evaluators, but I'm not sure using Gilbert is your best argument, especially when it takes corners longer than their rookie year to succeed in this league. If you have a good argument for who the Browns clearly should have taken over Gilbert at 8* I'm all ears.
*FWIW I wanted Aaron Donald or Kyle Fuller once you account for the FO's refusal to take a WR there.
I really don't get the refusal when it was clear the WR class was deep last year. -
Commander of Awesome
That's the point. Its deep, dont waste a 1st on a deep position. Unless you're talking about not drafting a WR at all, which I agree with you on. We should have.Sonofanump;1721821 wrote:I really don't get the refusal when it was clear the WR class was deep last year. -
lhslep134
To me that's a separate issue and I actually view it as consistency: if you're going to say you're not using a valuable asset (1st round pick) on a particular position and then you pass up on that position 3 times (#4, #9/#8, and #22).Sonofanump;1721821 wrote:I really don't get the refusal when it was clear the WR class was deep last year.
I'm OK with the "wait on a WR" philosophy value wise but I can see why someone would disagree with it.
Even though you disagree with the FO's philosophy re: WR's, assume for a second you don't; who would you have taken over Gilbert? -
BR1986FB
That's because you've got nothing. Both are playing at a very high level right now.sleeper;1721732 wrote:I won't even dignify the above discussion with any counter argument. Simply retarded. -
Sonofanump
I don't remember, a linebacker: Barr, Mosely?lhslep134;1721826 wrote:To me that's a separate issue and I actually view it as consistency: if you're going to say you're not using a valuable asset (1st round pick) on a particular position and then you pass up on that position 3 times (#4, #9/#8, and #22).
I'm OK with the "wait on a WR" philosophy value wise but I can see why someone would disagree with it.
Even though you disagree with the FO's philosophy re: WR's, assume for a second you don't; who would you have taken over Gilbert? -
DeyDurkie5
Your concept is simple. My point was no shit in "a vacuum" you would acquire luck. No point to even say that considering we aren't in a vacuum.lhslep134;1721721 wrote:"In a vacuum" is a concept that isolates outside factors such as reality. Since you appear to be unaware of the effect that reality has on situations let me make two separate statements to show my point. Hopefully it will expand your scope of understanding. If you didn't respond like a douche I wouldn't be doing this, because taking time and explaining how asinine your comment was is making me feel douchey.
1) I wouldn't acquire Andrew Luck
2) I wouldn't give up the requisite assets needed to acquire Luck
Statement 1, without the context of statement 2, is a dumb comment. No sane football fan would blanketly say they wouldn't want to acquire Luck. To say you would acquire Luck without having the context of statement 2 would be isolating reality in what is described as saying something "in a vacuum".
Adding statement 2 gives the context of reality, however, and removes the isolation from outside factors, i.e. "in a vacuum" quality.
So in a vacuum I would acquire Andrew Luck but in the context of reality I wouldn't give up what would be needed to get him. Hope that explains what I consider to be a simple concept.
In a vacuum I would acquire Rodgers but in reality I won't. Just dumb to me. -
lhslep134
So your "in a vacuum wtf is that" responsive post is either 1) you not knowing a concept you admit is simple or 2) you needlessly being a dick and pointing out I didn't need to use the words "in a vacuum" when in reality it was entirely applicable given Sleeper's commentDeyDurkie5;1721872 wrote:Your concept is simple.
If it was the former reason, LOL; If it was the latter, I guess I don't see any reason for your provocation. -
DeyDurkie5
I'll keep in mind to not respond to your posts when I think what you said is dumb. I see you are very defensive about it. My bad.lhslep134;1721877 wrote:So your "in a vacuum wtf is that" responsive post is either 1) you not knowing a concept you admit is simple or 2) you needlessly being a dick and pointing out I didn't need to use the words "in a vacuum" when in reality it was entirely applicable given Sleeper's comment
If it was the former reason, LOL; If it was the latter, I guess I don't see any reason for your provocation. -
Commander of Awesome
"aka I'm a bitch and have nothing since you've called me out. "DeyDurkie5;1721962 wrote:I'll keep in mind to not respond to your posts when I think what you said is dumb. I see you are very defensive about it. My bad.
Got it, thanks Durkie. -
lhslep134
Next time I go to call a spade a spade and say you're being a douche I'll keep in mind that you get your panties in a bunch when I point out you're either being an idiot or being a douche.DeyDurkie5;1721962 wrote:I'll keep in mind to not respond to your posts when I think what you said is dumb. I see you are very defensive about it. My bad. -
Pick6
Weird post when by all accounts JFF is maturing, and I've heard nothing about Gilbert besides a new revelation of a "personal issue". He also regressed if anything. Def has the talent though obviously.Commander of Awesome;1721815 wrote:
I'm not a JFF believer, but dont think he's trash. I can envision him being solid back up if he gets his head out of his ass. Gilbert I'm a believer in still. He showed some progress last season, and by all accounts is maturing.
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Commander of Awesome
I haven't read any accounts on jff other than he's in rehab/out of rehab. Gilbert I've heard was a maturity issue, and he's been working out with haden in the off season.Pick6;1721989 wrote:Weird post when by all accounts JFF is maturing, and I've heard nothing about Gilbert besides a new revelation of a "personal issue". He also regressed if anything. Def has the talent though obviously.