2015 Browns Offseason Thread

• lhslep134

  

  BR1986FB;1703143 wrote:This has been building up for awhile. You younger cats may think that what the Browns ownership and their players are doing is "standard NFL procedure" but it's not. They're a joke. An embarrassment. You can say "but 7-9" all you want but that was a shitty 7-9. They are trending downward, after a 7-4 start....back to their old ways. The cupboards not bare but with this ownership/no QB to speak of, I'm not overly enthused.
  
  Yeah, you see other teams do stupid shit but more times than not, it's the Browns. Frankly, I wouldn't be stunned if a Mexican donkey show video surfaced of Haslam & Farmer on their "retreat" at this point. Nothing shocks me with this group anymore.
  
  The Browns used to be a PROUD franchise. Now they're just the butt of NFL jokes.

  
  None of that is ANY different from two months ago. So why are you acting different? My question is the exact one posed in the post from S&L you quoted and yet still didn't answer.
• like_that

  

  Commander of Awesome;1703148 wrote:Why in the fuck are we talking about Erica Fucking Womangini anyways? God fucking damn it. FA and draft can't come soon enough.

  Honestly I think i would take another 5 win season right now over another Cleveland Brown off season. This time of year is so fucking annoying for the Browns.
• Mulva

  

  The regular season is always a train wreck, why should the offseason be any different?
• lhslep134

  

  like_that;1703151 wrote: Most of us were born as fucking Browns fans, because of fathers like you and we have had nothing but misery. So let's not play this old timers' pain vs younger guys' pain game.

  
  EXACTLY! You oler guys may be sick of this but you at least got to experience success. We're dealing with the same bullshit as you without any of the good feelz.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  People forget we fucking won 7 god damn games this season. The most since 2007. That's progress knuckleheads. I'm going to see this team develop before I continue QQing over a POS WR who did jack shit on this team being suspended, or a QB who did jack FUCKING shit going into rehab. Get off the panic train. FA and draft, lot of time/moves to continue to move this in the right direction.
  
  Honest question, if Luck were to be injured for the year, would you rather be a browns fan or a colts fan? EZ decision for me. This team can compete for an AFC North title next season. Invest in the lines and quit crying. Bunch of whiny babies.
• SportsAndLady

  

  Commander of Awesome;1703158 wrote:People forget we fucking won 7 god damn games this season. The most since 2007. That's progress knuckleheads. I'm going to see this team develop before I continue QQing over a POS WR who did jack shit on this team being suspended, or a QB who did jack FUCKING shit going into rehab. Get off the panic train. FA and draft, lot of time/moves to continue to move this in the right direction.
  
  Honest question, if Luck were to be injured for the year, would you rather be a browns fan or a colts fan? EZ decision for me. This team can compete for an AFC North title next season. Invest in the lines and quit crying. Bunch of whiny babies.

  But you do need to add that we need a QB. Without that, we can keep investing in the line all day, but without a QB we won't come close to an AFC north title
  
  Other than that, I agree with what you said. The QQ'ing right now is just ridiculous.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  SportsAndLady;1703161 wrote:But you do need to add that we need a QB. Without that, we can keep investing in the line all day, but without a QB we won't come close to an AFC north title
  
  Other than that, I agree with what you said. The QQ'ing right now is just ridiculous.

  I think we can win in the AFC without a QB, Ravens and the bungals seem to be doing just fine without one, lolololololololol.
  
  Make the def legit, aka stopping the run, to go with a league's top secondary and run the fucking ball. Let me repeat that, RUN. THE. BALL. We do that, we can easily be in the mix for a AFC North title. If PT and Mack don't go down this yr, or we had backups that didn't suck ass, and we could have won 9 games with Hoyer behind center, a sniveling weasel OC who ran the same fucking play over and over without success, and no WRs. Get better at the lines and this team's outlook is changed.
• SportsAndLady

  

  Commander of Awesome;1703164 wrote:I think we can win in the AFC without a QB, Ravens and the bungals seem to be doing just fine without one, lolololololololol.
  
  Make the def legit, aka stopping the run, to go with a league's top secondary and run the fucking ball. Let me repeat that, RUN. THE. BALL. We do that, we can easily be in the mix for a AFC North title. If PT and Mack don't go down this yr, or we had backups that didn't suck ass, and we could have won 9 games with Hoyer behind center, a sniveling weasel OC who ran the same fucking play over and over without success, and no WRs. Get better at the lines and this team's outlook is changed.

  Stop being delusional. You need a QB. The Browns can have a pro bowl offensive line but if they don't have a QB to make plays, they'll be under .500.
  
  Flacco is damn good in the playoffs. Dalton sucks I agree but the bengals ceiling is a first round playoff loss...do you really want that?
• like_that

  

  SportsAndLady;1703170 wrote:Stop being delusional. You need a QB. The Browns can have a pro bowl offensive line but if they don't have a QB to make plays, they'll be under .500.
  
  Flacco is damn good in the playoffs. Dalton sucks I agree but the bengals ceiling is a first round playoff loss...do you really want that?

  I don't want a ceiling of first round playoff loss, but Dalton did win the division once. Serious question, if Dalton and Hoyer switch teams, do you think we see the same results? I do.
• HitsRus

  

  Most of us were born as fucking Browns fans, because of fathers like you and we have had nothing but misery. So let's not play this old timers' pain vs younger guys' pain game.

  Not playing any games here...just trying to provide a reason and to give us all a break. I'm not going to try to quantify who's suffering more.....'cause we all are to a more or lesser degree.
• lhslep134

  

  SportsAndLady;1703170 wrote:Stop being delusional. You need a QB. The Browns can have a pro bowl offensive line but if they don't have a QB to make plays, they'll be under .500.

  You're really going to say that after the Browns just showed otherwise? The Browns were in a really good place, very realistically competing for a division title, before Mack went down and Hoyer's safety net (running the ball) went up in flames.
• lhslep134

  

  BTW do not interpret that as me saying the Browns don't need a QB to compete beyond the division. We definitely do. But we have a good enough team that we can win our division with someone like Hoyer and a healthy, pro-bowl caliber line.
  
  It's exactly like how I think the Bengals need a QB better than Dalton to advance further than Wildcard round, but Dalton is good enough to win the AFC North.
• like_that

  

  lhslep134;1703175 wrote:BTW do not interpret that as me saying the Browns don't need a QB to compete beyond the division. We definitely do. But we have a good enough team that we can win our division with someone like Hoyer and a healthy, pro-bowl caliber line.
  
  It's exactly like how I think the Bengals need a QB better than Dalton to advance further than Wildcard round, but Dalton is good enough to win the AFC North.

  These reflect my thoughts as well.
• SportsAndLady

  

  lhslep134;1703174 wrote:You're really going to say that after the Browns just showed otherwise? The Browns were in a really good place, very realistically competing for a division title, before Mack went down and Hoyer's safety net (running the ball) went up in flames.

  1- showing for 11 games isn't really "showing us"
  And yes I know the Mack injury killed us
  
  2- im not looking to compete for division titles. I want to compete for Super Bowls. And not having a QB isn't going to help get to that point.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  lhslep134;1703175 wrote:BTW do not interpret that as me saying the Browns don't need a QB to compete beyond the division. We definitely do. But we have a good enough team that we can win our division with someone like Hoyer and a healthy, pro-bowl caliber line.
  
  It's exactly like how I think the Bengals need a QB better than Dalton to advance further than Wildcard round, but Dalton is good enough to win the AFC North.

  like_that;1703180 wrote:These reflect my thoughts as well.

  This.
  
  I don't think you need an MVP type QB to win the SB though. A MVP type QB makes it a lot easier, but a top 12 QB, devastating run game, and pwn def that stops the run can easily compete for rings. It's very difficult to have an elite QB/PAssing game, Great running game, and elite def as well, so I think you need to be great at 2 things. I don't think Russell is an elite MVP type QB. He's a good young QB that doesn't turn the ball over (outside of the SB) at an astonishing level. Run the ball, play good def and don't turn the fucking ball over is a recipe for success in this league. Hell look at the steelers with their rapist POS QB. He was terrible and won a ring. It can happen with great def, and a great running game.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  SportsAndLady;1703182 wrote:1- showing for 11 games isn't really "showing us"
  And yes I know the Mack injury killed us
  
  2- im not looking to compete for division titles. I want to compete for Super Bowls. And not having a QB isn't going to help get to that point.

  Past SB winners say otherwise, highlighted in my post above.
• Sonofanump

  Commander of Awesome;1703187 wrote:This.
  
  I don't think you need an MVP type QB to win the SB though. A MVP type QB makes it a lot easier, but a top 12 QB, devastating run game, and pwn def that stops the run can easily compete for rings. It's very difficult to have an elite QB/PAssing game, Great running game, and elite def as well, so I think you need to be great at 2 things. I don't think Russell is an elite MVP type QB. He's a good young QB that doesn't turn the ball over (outside of the SB) at an astonishing level. Run the ball, play good def and don't turn the fucking ball over is a recipe for success in this league. Hell look at the steelers with their rapist POS QB. He was terrible and won a ring. It can happen with great def, and a great running game.

  The Browns are only a few pieces away. But unfortunately, the major piece is getting a 10-15 best QB. I see none in FA or in the draft. Take a flyer on a QB project that is over 6'3".
• Mulva

  

  Browns were 3-2 with Mack. 1-2 in division, 1-2 against winning teams. Not enough evidence to project that out to a full season one way or the other.
  Went 4-2 in first 6 without him. Finished 0-5 against 4 playoff teams + 9-win Buffalo.
  
  Based on that how can you realistically judge how much of early/late season difference was due to Mack/no Mack as opposed to caliber of opponent?
  
  7 wins doesn't mean much when everyone else in the division won at least 10. A rising tide lifts all boats, and last year the NFC South was that tide. One of the worst 2 or 3 divisions in the past decade. AFCN went 12-3-1 against them as a whole, Browns went 3-1.
  
  Outside of NFCS, Browns went 4-8.
  Against 10 best opponents by record, Browns went 2-8.
  
  In my opinion, a good offseason away from being a potential 9-10 win team, and a bad offseason away from being a 4-5 win team and cleaning house again.
• DeyDurkie5

  

  Mulva;1703217 wrote:Browns were 3-2 with Mack. 1-2 in division, 1-2 against winning teams. Not enough evidence to project that out to a full season one way or the other.
  Went 4-2 in first 6 without him. Finished 0-5 against 4 playoff teams + 9-win Buffalo.
  
  Based on that how can you realistically judge how much of early/late season difference was due to Mack/no Mack as opposed to caliber of opponent?
  
  7 wins doesn't mean much when everyone else in the division won at least 10. A rising tide lifts all boats, and last year the NFC South was that tide. One of the worst 2 or 3 divisions in the past decade. AFCN went 12-3-1 against them as a whole, Browns went 3-1.
  
  Outside of NFCS, Browns went 4-8.
  Against 10 best opponents by record, Browns went 2-8.
  
  In my opinion, a good offseason away from being a potential 9-10 win team, and a bad offseason away from being a 4-5 win team and cleaning house again.

  Without Mack, our run game was non existant. Without our run game, our play action offense was nothing. Hence making Hoyer beat teams. I personally feel Mack going out was the reason for this. So yeah, even with 5 games, I feel this season went down when he went down.
• HitsRus

  

  I'm as old school as you get, but every new rule the NFL passes is about protection from injuries (especially QBs) and opening up the offense.
  (note last year's new rules on what DB can do ro receivers coming off the line). Passing is the name the name of today's game....you are not going to win the game in the last 2 minutes unless you have a top notch QB and passing game.
• Lovejoy1984

  

  McShay released his 2nd mock
  
  Notables
  
  1.) Winston TB
  6.) Mariotta NYJ
  12.) Clemings
  15.) Devin Smith-49ers
  19.) Funchess
  27.) Gordon- DAL
  31.) Gurley- SEA
• Commander of Awesome

  

  QBs are going 1-2. Book it.
  
  12.) I'm all for improving the lines, but a RT at 12 would be a bit mystifying. Everything I've read about Clemings is he struggles in pass protection, same as Schwartz. Is he a straight mauler in the run game, with upside to not be a liability in pass protection? HE better be to go #12.
  
  19.) I wouldn't QQ too much (Though wouldn't be my pick and I bet he lasts to the 2nd round), but there are a bunch of things to consider with him, starting with his inconsistent effort. Did he specify if he'd play TE or WR?
• Lovejoy1984

  

  Commander of Awesome;1703487 wrote:QBs are going 1-2. Book it.
  
  12.) I'm all for improving the lines, but a RT at 12 would be a bit mystifying. Everything I've read about Clemings is he struggles in pass protection, same as Schwartz. Is he a straight mauler in the run game, with upside to not be a liability in pass protection? HE better be to go #12.
  
  19.) I wouldn't QQ too much (Though wouldn't be my pick and I bet he lasts to the 2nd round), but there are a bunch of things to consider with him, starting with his inconsistent effort. Did he specify if he'd play TE or WR?

  12.) Work in progress, excels as a run blocker, but would sturggle in pass protection
  
  19.) WR.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  Fuck, so many drops. I dont think I'd be a buyer at #19, even though Browns could be desperate at WR.
  
  I'd much rather get Collins to play RT than Clemings as well.
  
  Hell I'd much rather go Kevin White, Vic Beasley then continue to hammer the lines that those picks.
• Lovejoy1984

  

  Agreed. And who the hell knows how the draft will shake out.
  
  But I think they need to come out of this draft with at least 2 WRs, a TE, OG, OT, 2 DL's, and a QB (project, or Winston/Mariota if they fell to 19)
  
  Obviously this is all before FA, where they could address most if not all those positions.