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2012 Cleveland Browns thread: AKA Pat Shurmur Memorial thread

  • like_that
    IggyPride00;1299240 wrote:Heard an interesting point made today in the car on the way home about why Haslam and Banner almost have to fire Shurmur short of him finishing .500% or better.

    If they give him a 1 year reprieve like Holmgren did Mangini, then at the start of next year should we come out of the gate at 1-3, 2-4 or something like that (we are notoriously slow starting) then we are all going to be on Shurmur Death watch by week 5-6 and the season is highly likely to spin out of control.

    If Banner hires a new coach and we start slow, it is not the end of the world as no one is expecting a new coach to be fired at the end of the season short of going 0-16.

    If Shurmur starts slow, suddenly it mushrooms into management having made the wrong decision just like with Mangini, and what week is he getting fired, and the narrative turns toxic immediately.

    Not to mention we would be back at a "second first year" scenario again the year after which may make Browns fans want to blow their collective brains out.

    There will be pressure on the team to continue showing improvement next year, but if Shurmur is given a 1 year try-out like Mangini got it just ramps it up that much more because the team and fan base know that if they get out slow then Shurmur is gone and major changes are coming.

    Holmgren's credibility flew out the window when he had to fire Mangini after that first year as it basically was an indictment on his management ability with such a big flub right out of the box.

    If Banner does the same thing it will similarly undercut his credibility if he has to fire Shurmur like Holmgren did keeping him on a year 2 long. Those guys make millions of dollars to know ahead of time whether it is or is not a fit.

    Making a huge miss like that on your first big decision is hard to get out from underneath, which is why they need to just start over now with a clean slate.
    Stopped reading.
  • SportsAndLady
    like_that;1299242 wrote:Stopped reading.
    Lol same
  • shook_17
    if you guys want some good lulz check out the colts forums

    http://forums.colts.com/index.php?/topic/11655-thoughts-on-the-cleveland-browns/
  • BR1986FB
    shook_17;1300232 wrote:if you guys want some good lulz check out the colts forums

    http://forums.colts.com/index.php?/topic/11655-thoughts-on-the-cleveland-browns/
    You'd think Fujita was a future Hall of Famer. :laugh:
  • wes_mantooth
    wow...I didn't realize we run the ball a ton....Trent is probably worn out already.

    lulz
  • BR1986FB
    wes_mantooth;1300268 wrote:wow...I didn't realize we run the ball a ton....Trent is probably worn out already.

    lulz
    Also didn't realize how bad our O-Line (currently ranked 10th in the NFL) is...
  • Crimson streak
    For those of you that want geno smith. Look what he's doing against an actual defense. Ouch
  • shook_17
    lol getting absolutely bitched slapped 45-7 with 7 minutes to go in the 3rd!

    but the colts fan are just dumb. it amazes me.
  • wes_mantooth
    Crimson streak;1300279 wrote:For those of you that want geno smith. Look what he's doing against an actual defense. Ouch

    Yeah...their only score wasn't even an offensive touchdown
  • IggyPride00
    Crimson streak;1300279 wrote:For those of you that want geno smith. Look what he's doing against an actual defense. Ouch
    But, but Weeden's 50 years old and had one bad game his first game ever played in the pros, we desperately need to draft another QB!
  • SportsAndLady
    Geno is just 1 option. Never said I wanted the Browns to take him, just that there actually are franchise QBs available. There always are.
  • SportsAndLady
    IggyPride00;1300370 wrote:But, but Weeden's 50 years old and had one bad game his first game ever played in the pros, we desperately need to draft another QB!
    Good god...he has ONE win and all of a sudden he's our franchise QB

    lulz
  • Mulva
    IggyPride00;1300370 wrote:But, but Weeden's 50 years old and had one bad game his first game ever played in the pros, we desperately need to draft another QB!
    He was pretty bad against Buffalo and Baltimore too.

    The people who say "he's gotten better every week" are nuts. His best game was week 2 against Cinci. Easily. It isn't even close.

    I don't think we need to draft another QB now, which I've said all along because I don't see a Luck or RGIII available in this draft class (although I still think Tyler Wilson is going to be a good one), but I 100% don't see Weeden as a Super Bowl QB, which is all I give a shit about.
  • GoChiefs
    Mulva;1300391 wrote:but I 100% don't see Weeden as a Super Bowl QB, which is all I give a shit about.
    Off the top of my head...
    Brad Johnson
    Mark Rypien
    Jeff Hostetler
    Trent Dilfer

    I'm sure the same was said of them.
  • Mulva
    GoChiefs;1300425 wrote:Off the top of my head...
    Brad Johnson
    Mark Rypien
    Jeff Hostetler
    Trent Dilfer

    I'm sure the same was said of them.
    Dilfer and Johnson were carried by arguably (Dilfer for sure) top 10 defenses ever. You can't anticipate building a Super Bowl around that.

    Rypian and Hofstetler were before my time, but Hofstetler was a backup who took over late in the season for a team that had probably the best record in the league without him, he didn't exactly hoist the team on his back and lead them to the Super Bowl. And the league has evolved into an entirely different game since the 80s/90s. DBs can't be as physical, offenses are more spread, and QBs are protected at all costs. It was a running league then, it's a passing league now.

    Eli Manning has been the worst QB to win a Super Bowl since the 02-03 season. Winning with an OK QB just doesn't happen in the modern day NFL. I personally can't even see San Francisco winning a title without a QB upgrade (hence the recent Kaepernick controversy rumors), and the Browns aren't anywhere near that level.
  • GoChiefs
    Hofstetler suffered a severely broken arm in flag football in '79. He never threw the ball the same. Hostetler went to the Super Bowl!
  • royal_k
    Weeden has played 6 games. I think it's fair to say none of us know right now whether or not he can be a SB QB. He can definitely make all the throws. He has some things to work on (staring down receivers pre-snap reads, and TOs) But I like the direction the offense has been heading the last couple weeks. This team finally has an offense that can put points up.
  • Crimson streak
    SportsAndLady;1300385 wrote:Geno is just 1 option. Never said I wanted the Browns to take him, just that there actually are franchise QBs available. There always are.

    Wasn't saying you, just in general. I really don't see that franchise guy in this draft. Maybe Wilson? That's about it
  • IggyPride00
    The Haslam regime is officially underway.

    Heckert has been emasculated.

    Adam Schefter posted this on ESPN this morning:
    Sources: Joe Banner has final say
    The Cleveland Browns' transition of power will first be reflected in the way the organization handles the NFL's trade deadline, one week from Tuesday.

    According to sources around the league, Cleveland's new CEO Joe Banner, not the Browns' braintrust of president Mike Holmgren and general manager Tom Heckert, will have the final say on whether or not the Browns make any trades.

    It is the surest sign of a shift in Cleveland. Any team that calls Cleveland to inquire about the availability of quarterback Colt McCoy or any other Browns player will need the input and approval of Banner.


    In the past, Holmgren would have to approve any deal and he relied heavily on Heckert to engage in any trade talks, like the failed ones to trade up in April's NFL draft for Robert Griffin III or the successful ones to trade up for Trent Richardson.


    But starting now and continuing through and beyond the NFL's trade deadline, Banner is boss.
    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8533075/joe-banner-cleveland-browns-ceo-already-final-say-sources
  • BR1986FB
    IggyPride00;1300549 wrote:The Haslam regime is officially underway.

    Heckert has been emasculated.

    Adam Schefter posted this on ESPN this morning:


    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8533075/joe-banner-cleveland-browns-ceo-already-final-say-sources
    Well...if Banner is making the call on this without input from Heckert, we're fucked. Banner has NO clue about personnel/talent evaluation issues. He's strictly a cap guy.
  • Rotinaj
    BR1986FB;1300555 wrote:Well...if Banner is making the call on this without input from Heckert, we're fucked. Banner has NO clue about personnel/talent evaluation issues. He's strictly a cap guy.
    I'm sure banner isn't going to just do shit on a whim. Also, Heckert is going to be fired for a reason. He's nothing special.
  • BR1986FB
    Rotinaj;1300556 wrote:I'm sure banner isn't going to just do shit on a whim. Also, Heckert is going to be fired for a reason. He's nothing special.
    The point was that Banner needs input from a personnel guy whether it's Heckert or whoever. Banner is NOT the guy to make personnel decisions.
  • IggyPride00
    BR1986FB;1300555 wrote:Well...if Banner is making the call on this without input from Heckert, we're ****ed. Banner has NO clue about personnel/talent evaluation issues. He's strictly a cap guy.
    All the more reason I firmly believe Heckert is out because Banner I think wants to expand beyond just being a cap guy, and getting a general manager he can easily control that is his guy will make that easier for him.
  • BR1986FB
    IggyPride00;1300558 wrote:All the more reason I firmly believe Heckert is out because Banner I think wants to expand beyond just being a cap guy, and getting a general manager he can easily control that is his guy will make that easier for him.
    I have no issue with Banner getting a GM. I just don't want him making personnel decisions.
  • Mulva
    It makes perfect sense that the salary cap guy would have the final say on trades. That doesn't mean he's going to be the one initiating any move.