2011 Cleveland Cavalier Offseason/Draft

• jordo212000

  

  wes_mantooth;813670 wrote:yeah, and dirk was considered soft up until that point. It is just a completely different "finesse" style game over there. I personally would never want a big euro on the Cavs roster...now guards on the other hand, they seem to adjust a little better.

  
  Bosh is also always considered "soft" as well. Funny that two of the leagues "softest" bigs were in the NBA Finals.
• sleeper

  

  jordo212000;813692 wrote:is Thompson better than John Wall? John Wall "sucks" right?

  
  We won't know until Derrick Williams develops a jumper.
• jordo212000

  

  sleeper;813700 wrote:We won't know until Derrick Williams develops a jumper.

  
  Hitting an uncontested jumper against Oregon State and hitting a contested jumper off the bounce against Lebron James are two completely different things.
• sleeper

  

  jordo212000;813702 wrote:Hitting an uncontested jumper against Oregon State and hitting a contested jumper off the bounce against Lebron James are two completely different things.

  
  You won't admit you are wrong, and I will bring it up every time until you do.
• hoops23

  

  jordo212000;813689 wrote:Ehh, if you choose to buy draft hype, then that's on you.
  
  One thing that is widely agreed upon (I've heard multiple people say it) is that Cleveland did not get the 4th best player available with their pick in the draft.

  
  Draft hype? WTF are you talking about? I've seen a lot of people who DO love the pick.
• jordo212000

  

  sleeper;813705 wrote:You won't admit you are wrong, and I will bring it up every time until you do.

  
  Let me get this straight. I'm not taking part in the bonerfest for an unproven rookie who is going to be playing for the Minnesota Timberwolves and that makes me "wrong" about him...
  
  Yet, you are not wrong when you say John Wall "sucks" and I am inferring that you think you are more knowledgeable about the NBA than me? Interesting
• sleeper

  

  jordo212000;813715 wrote:Let me get this straight. I'm not taking part in the bonerfest for an unproven rookie who is going to be playing for the Minnesota Timberwolves and that makes me "wrong" about him...
  
  Yet, you are not wrong when you say John Wall "sucks" and I am inferring that you think you are more knowledgeable about the NBA than me? Interesting

  
  So you won't admit the Derrick Williams is a great shooter?
• hoops23

  

  Jordo, your original point on Williams was that he NEEDED TO DEVELOP a jumpshot. You got called out on that and began spinning away to try and make something stick for you.
  
  Now you're saying he needs to develop a contested jumper. You could say the same fucking thing for EVERY player going into the NBA.
• jordo212000

  

  Jordo, your original point on Williams was that he NEEDED TO DEVELOP a jumpshot. You got called out on that and began spinning away to try and make something stick for you.
  
  Now you're saying he needs to develop a contested jumper. You could say the same fucking thing for EVERY player going into the NBA.

  You're trying to tell me what I meant? I would love to have ESP
  
  Look if Williams is a star next year, I will eat my words. I just think he is in for a rude awakening
• hoops23

  

  jordo212000;813757 wrote:You're trying to tell me what I meant? I would love to have ESP

  
  No, I'm telling you what you said.
• sleeper

  

  jordo212000;813757 wrote: Look if Williams is a star next year, I will eat my words. I just think he is in for a rude awakening

  
  You'll just twist what a "star" is. You're a joke, admit you were wrong about Williams and everyone can move on.
• BR1986FB

  wes_mantooth;813670 wrote:yeah, and dirk was considered soft up until that point. It is just a completely different "finesse" style game over there. I personally would never want a big euro on the Cavs roster...now guards on the other hand, they seem to adjust a little better.

  
  Until the Euro's started coming over, it was rare to see 7 footers consistently jacking up 3's. Guys that big were typically relegated to the low posted. Euro's typically want NO part of that physical play.
• bases_loaded

  

  Outside of northeast Ohio. Most talking heads like the Thompson pick
• sleeper

  

  bases_loaded;813793 wrote:Outside of northeast Ohio. Most talking heads like the Thompson pick

  
  As do I. Although I do feel that if Kanter was available at #4 he'd be a Cavalier, but since he was not, this the who the Cavs wanted.
• Cleveland Buck

  

  Tristan Thompson is Amir Johnson with less offensive game. It really was a terrible pick. He will be better than JJ, but that isn't saying much. And I hate to agree with jordo while he is trolling. Grant must have been asking for too much to make a deal with anyone, but we should have done whatever possible outside of giving up next year's #1 to move up and get Williams. If that wasn't possible, you take the mobile 7 foot center and be happy even if you have to wait a year or two for him.
• Crimson streak

  

  I love the Thompson pick. I've wanted him all along if kanter was gone. People also don't realize the I believe is only 19. He doesn't have a bad jumper and loves to bang in the paint. He will compliment Irving very nicely
• Cleveland Buck

  

  Crimson streak;813930 wrote:I love the Thompson pick. I've wanted him all along if kanter was gone. People also don't realize the I believe is only 19. He doesn't have a bad jumper and loves to bang in the paint. He will compliment Irving very nicely

  
  His PPP on jumpers was .654 which was worst in the 2011 NBA draft among big men. He shot 49% from the line. Everything about his shot is fucked up. He's not even a great rebounder, his defensive rebounding rate was the worst for any American power forward in this draft. He can jump, that is it. The more I think about the pick the more disgusted I get with it. I really hope we can turn around and trade him real fast to someone who wanted to draft him and maybe get a 2012 1st round pick out of them.
• Footwedge

  hoops23;813603 wrote:Jonas V is a true big? Dude was getting pushed around in Euro ball.. No thank you.
  
  I guarantee Thompson improves his FT shooting. And to say he has no shooting touch, you must have never seen him play. Just because he doesn;t have a great jump shot doesn't mean he has "no touch"... He was very good around the basket.

  Yes he is a big. And no...when you shoot 49% from the line in college then you suck...will suck in the pros...and will be parked on the bench come crunch time. I watched him play more times than I could count....and watched other teams hack him just to put him on the line. There were 5 or 6 guys I would have rather taken this that guy. Carlos Boozer....he ain't.
• jordo212000

  

  Tristan Thompson is Amir Johnson with less offensive game. It really was a terrible pick. He will be better than JJ, but that isn't saying much. And I hate to agree with jordo while he is trolling. Grant must have been asking for too much to make a deal with anyone, but we should have done whatever possible outside of giving up next year's #1 to move up and get Williams. If that wasn't possible, you take the mobile 7 foot center and be happy even if you have to wait a year or two for him.

  I'm not trolling I just have the same opinion as you? Does that make you a troll too?
  
  Look I have already been a fan of the Irving pick. He's a good player.
  
  My issue was the reach for Thompson. Your description of his game was spot on
• KR1245

  

  Cleveland Buck;813947 wrote:His PPP on jumpers was .654 which was worst in the 2011 NBA draft among big men. He shot 49% from the line. Everything about his shot is ****ed up. He's not even a great rebounder, his defensive rebounding rate was the worst for any American power forward in this draft. He can jump, that is it. The more I think about the pick the more disgusted I get with it. I really hope we can turn around and trade him real fast to someone who wanted to draft him and maybe get a 2012 1st round pick out of them.

  
  How much tape did you watch of Jonas? How about Vesley? There is no doubt that Thompson has some things to work on but so does every prospcect in the draft. You're acting like the Cavs passed on Dwight Howard or Patrick Ewing. All they did was pass on unproven Euro's that have alot of work to do. I dont see what the problem is
• BR1986FB

  About the Cavaliers...
  
  1. The draft is the first step in the front office convincing the owner of a business named Quicken Loans to take a patient approach. Dan Gilbert is deal maker, and guy who sometimes says "Take the roast out of the oven." But cooking up a good team after years of low or no draft picks and trying to win now to keep LeBron James takes time.
  
  2. As it turns out, the Cavs could have taken Derrick Williams first and Brandon Knight with the fourth pick. But from what I understand, they had these four players in their top four: Kyrie Irving, Williams, Tristan Thompson and Enes Kanter. They had Irving rated the top player in the draft by a significant margin. They didn't want to risk failing to grab their top target.
  
  3. Their point is not all freshman point guards are created equal. They believe Irving is a true point, a team leader. They see Knight as a very good combination guard who can develop into a point guard. While Irving shot 52 percent from the field, 46 percent on 3-pointers and 90 percent at the foul line, Knight was 42 percent from the field, 38 percent on 3-pointers and 80 percent at the foul line.
  
  4. Byron Scott knows a lot about point guards. He likes Knight, but he's in love with Irving and the idea of putting the freshman from Duke in his system. I happen to think Knight will develop into a good pro, and some teams will wonder what they were thinking to allow him to drop to Detroit at No. 8. But I prefer Irving.
  
  5. The Cavs rated Thompson in their top three. They believe he runs the court better than any big man in the draft. They say his 49 percent free-throw shooting is negated by 2.4 blocks per game. They want to upgrade their defense, and say Thompson will do that along with rebound and become a significant shot blocker. They believe a key element in the NBA is the pick-and-roll play, and Thompson defends it extremely well.
  
  6. I'm showing my very old age, but Thompson reminds me of Roy Hinson -- the Cavs' top pick in 1983. In four years at Rutgers, he averaged 12.8 points, 7.2 rebounds and shot 60 percent from the foul line. He developed into a very solid pro whose long arms helped him play bigger and block shots. He also played four years of college, as most players did back then.
  
  7. As for feeling old, Scott said that crossed his mind as he watched the first seven picks of the draft. The only players from college were Irving (1), Williams (2) and Thompson (4). The other four were Kanter (3), Jonas Valanciunas (5), Jan Vesely (6) and Bismark Biyombo (7). Odds are against Valanciunas and Biyombo even playing in the NBA this season. At 21, Vesely is the oldest of this group.
  
  8. No wonder Knight didn't look happy at dropping to No. 8. He has to feel some teams just hate and underrate American players. He may be right, as the real reaches aren't someone such as Thompson -- it's some of these guys from overseas with very limited experience but who stand very tall.
  
  9. Thompson and Irving come to the Cavs after one year of college, but at least there is lots of tape and scouting on them -- because the pros start watching the top high-school players in summer camps after their junior years. The elite prep players now play with and against each other in AAU, and at the top prep schools.
  
  10. Here's a list of point guards picked in the top five since 2005: John Wall, Ricky Rubio, Derrick Rose, Mike Conley, Russell Westbrook, Deron Williams, Chris Paul and Raymond Felton. All are good or star quality players except Rubio, who just joined Minnesota after two years in Europe. Odds are that Irving will continue that trend.
  
  11. The fans who wanted Williams and hoped to get Knight will not be satisfied by anything said by the Cavs. The debate will continue for a few years, until Irving, Thompson, Williams and Knight establish themselves.
  
  12. Grabbing Milan Macvan at No. 54 to control his rights makes some sense because the 21-year-old power forward has played some top European competition. But I'd have kept Justin Harper (or drafted someone else) at No. 32, rather than trade that pick to Orlando for two future second-rounders. There had to be someone in the top 32 who could help. I like Harper because he's a prime shooter, 44 percent on 3-pointers and is 6-9.
  
  http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2011/06/terry_plutos_talkin_about_brow_13.html
• SportsAndLady

  

  Footwedge;814082 wrote:when you shoot 49% from the line in college then you suck

  
  Suck as in suck at basketball or suck at free throw shooting?
  
  If you're trying to say he sucks at basketball because his free throw shooting, that might.be up there with retard ccrunners 'if u play for a mid major you'll suck in the pros' comment. Ever heard of a guy named shaquille o'neal? How about Dwight Howard?
• BR1986FB

  SportsAndLady;814174 wrote:Suck as in suck at basketball or suck at free throw shooting?
  
  If you're trying to say he sucks at basketball because his free throw shooting, that might.be up there with retard ccrunners 'if u play for a mid major you'll suck in the pros' comment. Ever heard of a guy named shaquille o'neal? How about Dwight Howard?

  
  Ben Wallace?
• like_that

  

  jordo212000;814127 wrote:I'm not trolling I just have the same opinion as you? Does that make you a troll too?
  

  
  No, he is just calling you out for what you have been, and what everyone else knows you for.
• jordo212000

  

  Oh, and since when did the Bobcats/Michael Jordan wanting somebody, become a good thing? Haha Jordan is a terrible talent evaluator.