Cleveland Browns 2011 Super Awesome In-Season Thread

• Commander of Awesome

  

  yes
• Mr Miyagi

  

  McShay has Browns taking Quinn and Kiper has them taking Julio Jones........ with Patrick Peterson still on the board........ dont think that I would pass on Peterson
• like_that

  

  Mr Miyagi;734775 wrote:McShay has Browns taking Quinn and Kiper has them taking Julio Jones........ with Patrick Peterson still on the board........ dont think that I would pass on Peterson

  
  I agree. If there is no trade, and the decision is between Jones/Peterson, the Browns would be foolish not to draft Peterson imo. I am not that impressed with Julio Jones to be honest. I don't think he is worth a 6th overall pick.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  Agreed on Jones. I'm wary of his injury history and his drops. Also overall I'm just not a fan of drafting WRs that high to begin with.
• Mr Miyagi

  

  one thing also about the rumored trade with Atlanta, and any trades for future draft picks........ the NFL has come out and told teams" trade for future picks at your own risk" meaning if for some stupid reason the courts would rule that the draft is illegal there might not be a draft in 2012....... I dont think that will happen but being a Browns fan I would be worried if I owned an extra #1 for next year before this was decided
  
  As far as this draft goes, I would like to get a stud pass rusher but if Peterson is there wouldnt you like to have the best sure thing CB/ATHLETE, instead of the 2nd or 3rd best DL ? Sorry to disagree with all the AJ Green and Julio fans out there but there is no way I take either at 6. I understand the arguments about giving McCoy weapons to see what he's got but the Browns have way way to many holes to fill. That being said whoever they pick HAS TO work out . They cannot miss with this draft
  I know I am probably in the minority but I wasnt impressed with Joe Thomas this year. I am not saying he was a weak point by any means and we do not need to upgrade this position, just saying I think he had an off year and could do better especially for an all pro.
• OQB

  

  Mr Miyagi;735080 wrote:As far as this draft goes, I would like to get a stud pass rusher but if Peterson is there wouldnt you like to have the best sure thing CB/ATHLETE, instead of the 2nd or 3rd best DL ? Sorry to disagree with all the AJ Green and Julio fans out there but there is no way I take either at 6. I understand the arguments about giving McCoy weapons to see what he's got but the Browns have way way to many holes to fill. That being said whoever they pick HAS TO work out . They cannot miss with this draft
  I know I am probably in the minority but I wasnt impressed with Joe Thomas this year. I am not saying he was a weak point by any means and we do not need to upgrade this position, just saying I think he had an off year and could do better especially for an all pro.

  I agree with all those points....the NFL has become a pass first pass second league and with a secondary with Haden, Ward, and Peterson that would solidify the secondary for years and you could work to get the front 7 and offensive weapons you need to really be in contention.
  
  I would much rather have Peterson than one of these DLman that have had little college experience or injuries.
• Mr Miyagi

  

  well when OQB boy agrees with Miyagi the end of the world is surely coming. Maybe the radiation is getting to Miyagi over here and he needs to rethink his his opinion
  the Bills and Bengals could really shake this draft up depending on who they pick. What if a QB isnt selected till pick 10?
• Nate

  I'm not sold on Green or Jones w/ the 6th pick. If Peterson is there, I don't think you hesitate in taking him. That would give the Browns a serious secondary. I think DL/DE is the deepest position in the draft. The Browns could move up into the late part of the 1st w/ a package including their 2nd round pick to get a DE/DL.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  The news coming out about Bowers' knee is a bit worrisome. What do you guys make of the conflicting reports?
• OneBuckeye

  

  Not sure, the Browns medical staff doesn't have the best record. Hardesey was supposed to be OK too and look at how that turned out.
• Sonofanump

  Take Peterson if he is there at #6. I think he is good enough not to consider a trade down unless they get blown away with a lopsided deal.
• OneBuckeye

  

  Sonofanump;740328 wrote:Take Peterson if he is there at #6. I think he is good enough not to consider a trade down unless they get blown away with a lopsided deal.

  
  Agree. Peterson, Green or Dareus. One of them will be there so why take a risk when one of those kids will be there. Obviously pending any awesome trade deals.
• like_that

  

  Sonofanump;740328 wrote:Take Peterson if he is there at #6. I think he is good enough not to consider a trade down unless they get blown away with a lopsided deal.

  
  I was just about to say this. IMO I think Peterson is a no brainer if he falls to #6. I would be really happy with that pick. Still think the Browns should consider trading down, especially if they can get the type of deal the Falcons are rumored to offer.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  http://cle.scout.com/2/1063260.html
  
  First Round Findings
  
  
  By Don Delco
  OBR Browns Reporter
  Posted Apr 11, 2011
  
  
  
  
  Most mock drafts have Georgia wide receiver A.J. Green going to Cleveland at No. 6. The Browns' last first-round drafted wide receiver didn't end well. In 2011, is it worth trying again?
  
  25 Comments
  
  
  With a little more than two weeks until the 2011 NFL Draft, mock drafts are readily available on these here interwebs. At TheOBR.com and FoxSportsOhio.com, the Mock Draft Muncher lists the most popular picks for each team from the various mock drafts.
  
  According to The Muncher, most mock drafts trend toward the Cleveland Browns selecting Georgia wide receiver A.J. Green with the No. 6 overall pick. Green’s career stats are impressive (166 catches for 2,619 yards and 23 touchdowns) and so, too, are his catches.
  
  Yet, I can’t shake this gun-shy feeling I have taking a wide out at No. 6.
  
  First, I’m still a little chapped from the last time the Browns selected a wide out in the top 10. In 2005, Michigan’s Braylon Edwards was taken with the third overall pick. Edwards had some decent seasons in Cleveland, but his drops and his on-field attitude caused too much frustration. He never lived up to his draft day expectations, and on Oct. 8, 2009, the relationship thankfully ended.
  
  Second, there was the second round of the 2009 NFL Draft. The Browns selected two wide receivers among the top 50 picks. Neither Brian Robiskie nor Mohamed Massaquoi has become weapons in the Browns’ passing game.
  
  Finally, there is no doubt a big reason Green Bay and Pittsburgh reached the Super Bowl last season was because of its playmaking wide receivers. Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, James Jones and Jordy Nelson led the Packers wide receiving corps while Pittsburgh featured Mike Wallace, Hines Ward and Antwaan Randle El. None of those seven wide receivers were selected in the first round.
  
  If other NFL teams can be successful without drafting highly touted wide outs, do the Browns need to go down that route again?
  
  I was fully prepared to debunk the majority of the current mock drafts that have the Browns selecting Green. Yes, Green possesses immense talent and potential, but I couldn’t help feel that pick could be better served on another position. Somewhere, the next Jennings or Wallace is ready to be selected in a latter round.
  
  Well, a little basic research can go a long way.
  
  First, I found an ESPN.com article from 2008. Columnist Mike Sando listed his top 10 wide receivers of all-time.
  
  
  1. Jerry Rice, 49ers/Raiders/Seahawks, 1985-2004
  
  2. Randy Moss, Vikings/Raiders/Patriots/Titans, 1998-present
  
  3. Don Hutson, Packers, 1935-45
  
  4. Michael Irvin, Cowboys, 1988-99
  
  5. Paul Warfield, Browns/Dolphins, 1964-77
  
  6. Charley Taylor, Redskins, 1964-77
  
  7. Steve Largent, Seahawks, 1976-89
  
  8. Cris Carter, Eagles/Vikings/Dolphins, 1987-2002
  
  9. Terrell Owens, 49ers/Eagles/Cowboys/Bills/Bengals, 1996-present
  
  10. Marvin Harrison, Colts, 1996-2008
  
  I cross-referenced that list with the NFL Network’s Top 100 Players of All-Time list. Six of the 100 players were wide receivers, with Rice at No. 1. The only player in NFL Network’s list not mentioned by Sando two years earlier was Elroy “Crazylegs” Hirsch, who played for the Cleveland and Los Angeles Rams from 1945-57.
  
  
  Here’s what I found:
  
  
  •Seven of those 10 were drafted in the first round
  
  •Five of the seven were selected between Nos. 3-11 overall
  
  •Only two were not picked in the college draft
  
  •Hutson was the only undrafted wide out
  
  •Carter was taken in the 1987 supplemental draft
  
  •Largent was selected the farthest from round one, going No. 117 overall in the fourth round of the 1976 draft.
  
  In no way am I saying it is a lock Green will join those all-time greats. But, more than likely, a franchise-changing wide receiver will be selected in the first round.
  
  
  The NFL has changed since a majority of those 10 players suited up. In 2010, of the league’s top 10 players in receiving yards, seven were drafted in the first round:
  
  
  Falcons’ Roddy White (Drafted No. 27 overall in 2005; 115 catches for 1,398 yards)
  
  Colts’ Reggie Wayne (No. 30 in 2001; 111-1,355)
  
  Texans’ Andre Johnson (No. 3 in 2003; 86-1,216)
  
  Chiefs’ Dwayne Bowe (No. 23 in 2007; 72-1,162)
  
  Cardinals’ Larry Fitzgerald (No. 3 in 2004; 90-1,137)
  
  Lions’ Calvin Johnson (No. 2 in 2007; 77-1,120)
  
  Redskins’ Santana Moss (No. 16 in 2001; 93-1,115)
  
  The three who were not selected in the first round were the league-leader from Denver in Brandon Lloyd, (fourth round; 77-1,448), Jennings (second round in 2006; 76-1,265) and Wallace (third round in 2009; 60-1,257).
  
  
  If you remember, five of the seven all-time greats were drafted No. 11 or better. How has that gone in recent seasons?
  
  Last season, no wide receiver was selected among the first 11 picks.
  
  
  In 2009, Oakland selected Darrius Heyward-Bey at No. 7 and San Francisco took Michael Crabtree at No. 10.
  
  In 2008, no wide receiver was selected among the first 11 picks.
  
  In 2007, Detroit took Calvin Johnson second and Miami selected Ted Ginn, Jr. at No. 9.
  
  In 2006, no wide receiver was selected among the first 11 picks.
  
  In 2005, Cleveland took Edwards followed by Minnesota taking Troy Williamson seventh and Detroit taking Mike Williams 10th.
  
  Johnson and, yes, Edwards, were the only two to go on to become Pro Bowl selections, although Crabtree is coming on after holding out the first five games of his rookie season.
  
  
  Meanwhile, busts in the last dozen years include Charles Rogers (first round, No. 2 overall to Detroit) in 2003, Peter Warrick (first round, fourth pick overall to Cincinnati) in 2000, David Terrell (first round, eighth pick overall to Chicago) and Koren Robinson (first round, ninth overall pick to Seattle) in 2001 while Heyward-Bey, Ginn, Jr., Williamson and Williams appear poised to join that list.
  
  We can play with these numbers all we want, but it tells us that, more than likely, a franchise-changing wide receiver will be selected in the first round. Is Green that guy? The first
• Mr Miyagi

  

  not saying this will happen. Just curious what everybody would do if they are Cleveland in this worst case scenario and you cannot trade down
  1 Carolina Dareus dt
  2 Denver Peterson cb
  3 Buffalo V Miller lb
  4 Cincinnati A J Green wr
  5 Arizona Fairly dt
  6 Cleveland Browns ?????????? Quinn ?? Jones ????
• sleeper

  

  Although I do think Green is a great WR, I'd rather the first pick go to a playmaker on defense, specifically our line.
• Fabio

  To be honest I've been wanting robert quinn from the get go with the 6 pick so long as peterson and dareus aren't available. I think his character concerns aren't that big of a deal. Didn't he only attend an agent party? Its not like he's out there buffalo billing young women.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  Quinn's lack of playing last season and his injury history dating back to brain tumor in HS worries me. I'm crossing my fingers Dareus falls to us. He's #1 on my board.
• OneBuckeye

  

  Mr Miyagi;741072 wrote:not saying this will happen. Just curious what everybody would do if they are Cleveland in this worst case scenario and you cannot trade down
  1 Carolina Dareus dt
  2 Denver Peterson cb
  3 Buffalo V Miller lb
  4 Cincinnati A J Green wr
  5 Arizona Fairly dt
  6 Cleveland Browns ?????????? Quinn ?? Jones ????

  Not going to happen. Cam Newton will definately go in top 5 and Gabbert might as well.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  And if they dont, I bet we can Trade down, which in in that case would be awesome.
• like_that

  

  I want no part of Quinn, sorry.
• Pick6

  

  D-lineman or a WR for the first pick. There no other options IMO
• lhslep134

  

  Pick6;741284 wrote:D-lineman or a WR for the first pick. There no other options IMO

  
  If Peterson is available, he needs to be considered an option. Much more of a sure thing than Quinn, Bowers.
  
  How quickly we forget how good Gerard Warren and Courtney Brown looked in college. Everyone thought they were sure things.
• Pick6

  

  lhslep134;741294 wrote:If Peterson is available, he needs to be considered an option. Much more of a sure thing than Quinn, Bowers.
  
  How quickly we forget how good Gerard Warren and Courtney Brown looked in college. Everyone thought they were sure things.

  
  i can see how he would have to be an option just because of the player he is..but the browns have a young secondary as it is that they have used some early draft picks on that i think has some potential.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  Risdon's Draft Notes (April 13th)
  Authored by Jeff Risdon - 13th April, 2011 - 4:14 pm
  The draft is 15 days away and coming up quickly. I've been quite busy lately finishing up game tape evaluations and also talking with scouts and personnel people that I (mostly) trust. Here are some observations and tidbits to tide you over until the next version of my mock draft gets posted this Friday.
  
  
  -- I've been hellbent on doing apple/apple comparisons of the top Big Ten pass rushers: JJ Watt, Cameron Heyward, Ryan Kerrigan, and Adrian Clayborn. Kerrigan is much different so he sort of gets excluded (he's a 3-4 OLB or 4-3 pass rush specialist). Here's what I gathered:
  
  Clayborn is the best, most alert run stuffer. He has the best base strength in terms of setting the edge and not being moved from the spot. Clayborn is definitely the biggest hitter of the three as well; he unleashes so much energy and power from his core strength, and he does so without leaving his feet or losing control of his body like so many thumpers (see: Rey Maualuga or Roy Williams).
  
  He's also quite obviously the slowest of the three, both with his hands and feet. I see him as an undersized 4-3 defensive tackle more than an end in either front. He could play five-technique for a team like Dallas or San Diego that merely wants guys to occupy blockers, but you don't draft a player for that role above about the third round (unless you're Scott Pioli, where you draft one in the first two years in a row).
  
  The only game where he was the best of the three was against Penn State, and Iowa was ahead 17-0 early so he didn't have to worry about the run. He was much better in 2009; based just off his 2010 I see a mid-rounder with a strange medical issue (his right shoulder/arm has a condition where he loses strength periodically). Beware. His teammate Christian Ballard showed far more flexibility and creativity and should be a borderline second/third round pick, and I suspect he'll make a better pro than his more heralded teammate.
  
  Watt is raw, but he's got the best blend of power and speed. His tenacity and ability to operate when blocked are superior. When he tried the same basic approach as Clayborn against the same opponent, Watt was better against every single one at both winning the individual battle and finishing the play. Clayborn is a better bull rusher but Watt does a move where he holds for a count and then explodes into the B gap with brutal effectiveness and great burst, just rocks whoever picks him up. That's a move Clayborn simply doesn't have. It's a move Reggie White made a killing with and not many guys can do it. He killed it against Michigan State and Ohio State, the best player on the field in both games. I stand by my in-season comparison of a young Jared Allen with 25 extra pounds. Remember, Allen didn't blossom right away and I don't think Watt will be real great early either. I would still not hesitate to take him in the middle of the first round and deal with him learning the game (remember, he was a Central Michigan TE three years ago) on the fly.
  
  Heyward is the quickest twitch guy of the three and also the most technically sound ... at times. I've perhaps been defending him too vigorously in that regard; he loses focus on technique a lot more than I expected to see. He is the quickest off the snap and the best at diagnosing the offensive scheme and play, and he's easily got the best repertoire of moves to get into the backfield. He's shorter than Watt but he does have some issues with getting his pads too high. He's the best candidate to play five-technique in the NFL, and putting him as the end inside a guy like James Harrison or Terrell Suggs could allow him to net 6-8 sacks a year. I've lowered my grade a bit, taking off my Buckeye blinders I guess. I still like him as a late 1st rounder and I think the right coach can get him to a few Pro Bowls, but I think whatever team picks him will have to live with his mental timeouts as well. He's shorter but I liken him to Calais Campbell in terms of how he'll perform in the NFL.
  
  Kerrigan comes from the Purdue line that produced Anthony Spencer and Cliff Avril, both of whom have had decent success transitioning from the hybrid Boilermaker role to the NFL, with Spencer as a 3-4 outside linebacker and Avril a 4-3 defensive end. Kerrigan is significantly faster that both, but probably not as fluid as either. That's not to say he's straight-linish because he's not, but his game is more focused on beating the man to the point than using moves to beat him. He wasn’t as effective in space as I wanted him to be; to be blunt, he got lucky quite a bit and also got by on hustle and reputation as much as anything he did well. Still, I love his little half-step launch from a 2-point stance and his closing burst on both the quarterback and the ball, and nobody in FBS history has ever forced more fumbles. He's a playmaker at a premium position, and even though he has some warts that commands definite top 20 status. He favorably compares to Michigan's Brandon Graham, who went 13th a year ago.
  
  -- I was doing some film work on offensive tackles and wound up seeing a lot of Da'Quan Bowers. Both Orlando Franklin from Miami and BC's Anthony Castonzo won more battles overall and the total war against Bowers. I expected that from Castonzo, but Franklin did a great job at anticipating/reading the move and snuffing it out, and Bowers had little recourse most of the time. The one that really stood out though was true freshman James Hurst of UNC, who did a fine job of consistently handling Bowers. I was watching the game to check out the Clemson defensive backs but it stood out how a light freshman could drive and steer Bowers wide around the edge. Bowers could bull him but he doesn't have the hand/shoulder/foot coordination to separate quick enough to finish the play in time. Hurst has strong potential to be a good one, but he shouldn't be good enough as a freshman to do that good a job containing a potential top 15 pick.
  
  With the continued murkiness of Bowers' knee, I have to say I'm very bearish on him. I watched two full games and parts of two others from 2009 and the impression I got was "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane." He did some truly outstanding work in 2010 after undergoing some serious tragedy in his personal life, and maybe that switch will stay flipped. But even then he was largely contained by better competition (albeit playing hurt), and his track record is that of an underachiever with an iffy knee. I still think he’ll go in the top 25, but I would not take that risk on him.
  
  -- The more I watch Clemson's Marcus Gilchrist, the more I like. More specifically, the more 2009 I watch the more I like (thanks for the tapes JC!). I see why he's considered a draft board riser. He takes the position of "safety" quite literally. They used him all over the place (primarily cornerback in '10) and he can cover in man or zone, he can play center field, but what I really liked was how he played with an aggressive risk-taker like Deandre McDaniel. They had McDaniel crash the box hard, but he guessed wrong and overran plays quite a bit. But there was Gilchrist, patient and reliable. He also frequently set up the defense in front of him, even doing so from the slot at times. When I spoke with him during Senior Bowl week he came across as very intelligent both on and off the field, and his coaches and teammates have been vocal in singing his praises. I would love him to pair with a guy like Louis Delmas in Detroit or Yeremiah Bell in Miami. I'd be comfortable with him in the late second round, which is higher than I thought going into evaluating him.
  
  -- In working on the mock draft, the biggest question in the first round is, where does the run on offensive tackles start? Tyron Smith at No. 9 seems pretty credible, but then where does it go? Castonzo at No. 13 to Detroit has real legs, but it's not in stone. Does Miami go offensive lineman, and will it be Pouncey? Does New England go tackle? San Diego? KC or New Orleans? Atlanta? I have a pretty good feeling that Sherrod, Carimi, Watkins, and Solder all go within about a 6-to-8 pick range, but I cannot pinpoint where that run will start. I do think they come off in that order, FYI.
  
  -- Two running backs I like a lot more than everyone else: Dion Lewis and Alex Green. They both look like fourth-fifth rounders in reality but I wouldn't hesitate to take them in the top 90. I've always liked Lewis as a poor man's Mo Jones-Drew and I think he's hungry to prove doubters wrong after a somewhat disappointing 2010 at Pittsburgh.
  
  Hawaii's Green is a big back that plays sort of small and runs too upright, but he is a decisive runner with strong vision and great hands out of the backfield. I think he’d be excellent for teams like New England, Green Bay, or Indy that predominately deploy one back and at least three receivers spread out. His attacking mentality and ability to quickly cut while maintaining speed is ideal for carving up defenses in nickel packages that are scared of the pass a lot more than the run.
  
  I prefer both to (among others) Demarco Murray, Shane Vereen, Jordan Todman, and Daniel Thomas. I'd like Eastern Washington's Taiwan Jones more than all of them but he's proven pretty fragile and fumbles way too much -- he had just seven games in two years without losing at least one. But man is he electrifying with the ball in his hands, very eerily similar to Chris Johnson at ECU.