Breaking Bad: Final Season Discussion

• I Wear Pants

  gut;1506699 wrote:I didn't say that. It just felt a little too convenient and cheap. It's on par with everything being a dream - "Dallas" got crushed for that. They did the exact same thing with that tv show - the equivalent of a reset button after they've finished throwing dirt on the grave of Heisenberg.

  Can you give an example of something that wouldn't be too convenient or cheap? I just didn't have that thought at all while watching the scene.
• gut

  Over/under on we see Walt shaving his head in a rest stop bathroom?
• Manhattan Buckeye

  BoatShoes;1506683 wrote:Everyone got cut down even deeper. Everyone was in a bad spot and it got even worse. Skyler is free from Walt but now all of Walt's demons are still around to potentially harm her and her family. It got even worse. Jessie escapes from his prison but it gets even worse after Andrea is killed. Walt goes off to his prison but somewhere deep down he holds onto a pretty obvious false hope that he can still get money to his family....and it ends up even worse when Junior rejects him over the phone. Everyone went off a cliff the previous episode and then they just tumbled even further down in this one...but then Walt's ego of all things....probably both because his blue meth is said to be in circulation when it is his creation and that the Schwartz are denying that he created grey matter...Walt's Ego makes him set his drink down and decide not to wait for the police.

  I see part of your point, but when did all of this occur? We know that in this episode months have passed. What happened, and when?
• I Wear Pants

  Manhattan Buckeye;1506704 wrote:I see part of your point, but when did all of this occur? We know that in this episode months have passed. What happened, and when?

  What? It was all in the episode.
• gut

  I Wear Pants;1506701 wrote:Can you give an example of something that wouldn't be too convenient or cheap? I just didn't have that thought at all while watching the scene.

  Yeah, instead of beating us over the head with it, there were any number of directions they could have gone that don't rely on a hailmary to bring Heisenberg back from the dead.
  
  He could have simply hung up the phone and resolved himself to taking vengeance on the brotherhood and/or a last ditch face-to-face appeal to his family for forgiveness. Entirely within his character. Instead they have him literally give up, one more time, and are left only with a rather miraculous way of bringing him back.
  
  Hell, none of that bar scene was even necessary - Walt could have just told his handler "I need a car" and we would have readily understood the number of reasons why. Or he could have just sulked back home to die, and then read something in that stack of papers.
  
  I'm not going to try to come up with something better in 5 minutes, I just know the SHOW has been better. It was manufactured drama. They are playing you like a yo-yo as opposed to telling a great story.
• I Wear Pants

  gut;1506713 wrote:Yeah, instead of beating us over the head with it, there were any number of directions they could have gone that don't rely on a hailmary to bring Heisenberg back from the dead.
  
  He could have simply hung up the phone and resolved himself to taking vengeance on the brotherhood and/or a last ditch face-to-face appeal to his family for forgiveness. Entirely within his character. Instead they have him literally give up, one more time, and are left only with a rather miraculous way of bringing him back.
  
  Hell, none of that bar scene was even necessary - Walt could have just told his handler "I need a car" and we would have readily understood the number of reasons why. Or he could have just sulked back home to die, and then read something in that stack of papers.
  
  I'm not going to try to come up with something better in 5 minutes, I just know the SHOW has been better. It was manufactured drama. They are playing you like a yo-yo as opposed to telling a great story.

  Lol so reading something in a stack of papers is better than seeing something on television? I think you're fixating on the catalyst for Walt's realization that he doesn't want to just quit and die when it's not really important. I thought it was a decent way of demonstrating that his ego is more important than his family. His family is gone and he's ready to quit but once he sees someone question his own worth he has a renewed passion to prove them wrong.
• se-alum

  

  gut;1506713 wrote:Yeah, instead of beating us over the head with it, there were any number of directions they could have gone that don't rely on a hailmary to bring Heisenberg back from the dead.
  
  He could have simply hung up the phone and resolved himself to taking vengeance on the brotherhood and/or a last ditch face-to-face appeal to his family for forgiveness. Entirely within his character. Instead they have him literally give up, one more time, and are left only with a rather miraculous way of bringing him back.
  
  Hell, none of that bar scene was even necessary - Walt could have just told his handler "I need a car" and we would have readily understood the number of reasons why. Or he could have just sulked back home to die, and then read something in that stack of papers.
  
  I'm not going to try to come up with something better in 5 minutes, I just know the SHOW has been better. It was manufactured drama. They are playing you like a yo-yo as opposed to telling a great story.

  I think the back and forth shows the ongoing fight between Walter White and Heisenberg. The Walter White in him is just ready to give up, the Heisenberg wants to fight for his "empire".
• gut

  I Wear Pants;1506720 wrote:Lol so reading something in a stack of papers is better than seeing something on television? I think you're fixating on the catalyst for Walt's realization that he doesn't want to just quit and die when it's not really important. I thought it was a decent way of demonstrating that his ego is more important than his family. His family is gone and he's ready to quit but once he sees someone question his own worth he has a renewed passion to prove them wrong.

  No, it isn't. Shouldn't have been necessary. We've known for a long-time his ego comes first. Walter White does not give up on his family, and Heisenberg does not concede defeat. That scene(s) does nothing from a great drama or character standpoint, it's simply Vince assassinating any notion of Walt/Heisenberg as a romantic or sympathetic character. And in doing so, he boxed himself in to needing a reset button.
  
  I didn't say the papers would be better, but it could be. Like the tv thing, it's kind of been done. But you can say a lot with a few photos and headlines, a lot more actually than a tv clip.
  
  The point is they went above and beyond to "kill" Heisenberg, then throw a hailmary. It's "gotchya" writing. I don't know how anyone can claim that as good writing.
• I Wear Pants

  Heisenberg was never killed. No idea what made you think that.
• gut

  se-alum;1506738 wrote:I think the back and forth shows the ongoing fight between Walter White and Heisenberg. The Walter White in him is just ready to give up, the Heisenberg wants to fight for his "empire".

  That's a fair take, I guess. But actually Heisenberg retired after that conversation with Saul. That's why Walt is where he is. There's that brief moment where he first thinks about going to town, but then months have passed. And this is all made most clear by the fact he's let his hair grow out (despite still taking chemo, but we won't get into that).
  
  And actually to find the courage to go to town, he needs to put on the hat and "become" Heisenberg. But Heisenberg, like Walter White, is a shell of himself. LOL, they bring Heisenberg back in Friday the 13th fashion. Spend all this time burying him, and then snap your fingers to bring him back. They were clearly much less interested in how and why he comes back than in showing his personal hell. And the point I've been making is this show has given us better - less time on the former and a little more development on the latter would have been superior.
• gut

  I Wear Pants;1506744 wrote:Heisenberg was never killed. No idea what made you think that.

  figuratively....no idea how you missed it
• I Wear Pants

  gut;1506750 wrote:figuratively....no idea how you missed it

  He wasn't killed. Him coughing while trying to intimidate Saul was not the killing of Heisenberg.
  
  And Walt isn't a schizo either way. Heisenberg is a pseudonym not a second personality.
• Laley23

  

  gut;1506651 wrote:That doesn't particularly surprise me. People LOVE them some closure, and Vince is indulging us.
  
  But if you take the final Sopranos scene as an example, almost universally it was initially a "wtf?". To this day a lot of fans hate it, but that scene was absolutely brilliant. They hate it because everything didn't get wrapped up in a neat little bow.

  All this talk of lazy writing...and you LOVED THE SOPRANOS ENDING.
  
  That is literally the definition of lazy writing (outside of a dream...). Writers dont know how to end a show, so they leave it open ended. Its the ultimate slap in the face and a joke of a final scene. How anyone can like the ending after the years invested in the Sopranos blows my mind. Did the writers really have THAT hard of a time letting Tony go or killing him or putting him in jail etc? For fucks sake, make a decision. Open ended endings are the ABSOLUTE WORST and the most obvious form of lazy/indecisive writing there is.
• se-alum

  

  Laley23;1506782 wrote:All this talk of lazy writing...and you LOVED THE SOPRANOS ENDING.
  
  That is literally the definition of lazy writing (outside of a dream...). Writers dont know how to end a show, so they leave it open ended. Its the ultimate slap in the face and a joke of a final scene. How anyone can like the ending after the years invested in the Sopranos blows my mind. Did the writers really have THAT hard of a time letting Tony go or killing him or putting him in jail etc? For fucks sake, make a decision. Open ended endings are the ABSOLUTE WORST and the most obvious form of lazy/indecisive writing there is.

  Nope, brilliant artistry.
• TedSheckler

  

  I wasn't aware of all the whiny cunts and/or television experts on this site.
• Fab4Runner

  

  The writers don't actually believe that that was Heisenberg at the end. It's not Walter White and it's not Heisenberg. It's something and someone totally new... the final step in the journey. Heisenberg is just as helpless and worthless as Walt is now. The Nazis/Lydia don't need him, his family doesn't want him. I'm really not sure what's so hard to understand about that.
• I Wear Pants

  Fab4Runner;1506933 wrote:The writers don't actually believe that that was Heisenberg at the end. It's not Walter White and it's not Heisenberg. It's something and someone totally new... the final step in the journey. Heisenberg is just as helpless and worthless as Walt is now. The Nazis/Lydia don't need him, his family doesn't want him. I'm really not sure what's so hard to understand about that.

  Worst episode of television of all time.
• wes_mantooth

  

  I Wear Pants;1506939 wrote:Worst episode of television of all time.

  Agreed. They should cancel the series now...
• se-alum

  

  The finale should just be Walt and his family living in a mansion with no explanation of what happened or how they got there. That ending would be nearly as brilliant as the Sopranos finale, maybe even better. If they give me any closure, I'll be super pissed.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  I Wear Pants;1506709 wrote:What? It was all in the episode.

  That isn't a response. I rewatched the entire episode this morning...it was filler. We have Walt and Robert Forster waxing poetic for most of the first portion of it. We have one scene of Marie...which I guess was intended to remind us she is still around. We have Todd for some reason threatening Skyler....which I suppose the writers wrapped up with the DEA interview but it still didn't make much sense. And if Vince Gilligan couldn't ruin Jesse's character more we have a "Saw" like torture porn scene with him.
  
  Just because this is Breaking Bad doesn't mean we should all line up to perform fellatio on Vince Gilligan.
• Raw Dawgin' it

  

  Fab4Runner;1506597 wrote:Yep, it is. Especially after reading Peter Gould's thoughts on all of it.

  I watch it last night and then read the article this morning. I felt underwhelmed only because the last episode was so fast paced that I didn't expect this one to be drawn out. I thought the phone call was the best scene and the cops raiding the bar at the end makes it seem like the final episode will be on over drive. Reps for the link.
• I Wear Pants

  Manhattan Buckeye;1506998 wrote:That isn't a response. I rewatched the entire episode this morning...it was filler. We have Walt and Robert Forster waxing poetic for most of the first portion of it. We have one scene of Marie...which I guess was intended to remind us she is still around. We have Todd for some reason threatening Skyler....which I suppose the writers wrapped up with the DEA interview but it still didn't make much sense. And if Vince Gilligan couldn't ruin Jesse's character more we have a "Saw" like torture porn scene with him.
  
  Just because this is Breaking Bad doesn't mean we should all line up to perform fellatio on Vince Gilligan.

  Jesse wasn't going to cook anymore, what do you think Todd and gang would have done if not kill Andrea.
• gut

  Laley23;1506782 wrote:All this talk of lazy writing...and you LOVED THE SOPRANOS ENDING. .

  What you're referring to is lazy viewing. They told you absolutely everything in that Sopranos finale without spelling it out explicitly. There was no lack of closure with respect to Tony Soprano - he will spend the remainder of his life looking over his shoulder and around every corner, and eventually he catches a bullet. There, now you know how Sopranos actually ends.
  
  And in fact that last season was intended to let you feel what it was like to be Tony Soprano for even just a few casual minutes out with his family. Much of that scene, in fact, is actually shot from Tony's point of view/perspective. Suppose that didn't work for you, but it was indeed brilliant.
  
  Like I said, some people need things spelled out explicitly. For those people, this season might be THE BEST one of Breaking Bad. Something can still be entertaining without being great writing.
• gut

  Fab4Runner;1506933 wrote:The writers don't actually believe that that was Heisenberg at the end. It's not Walter White and it's not Heisenberg.

  All the more reason they should have spent a little time developing that after spending most of the episode burying Walt/Heisenberg. Rising from the grave like some supernatural Jason Vorheez might work for a b-horror movie, but c'mon.
  
  For all intent and purposes they could have ended the series right there in that cabin. Walt had lost absolutely everything and was going to die in prison. Entirely appropriate ending (at least with respect to the direction and path the writers chose), if unsatisfying.
  
  Instead they hit the reset button and will no doubt deliver 60 minutes of gratuitous cartoon violence. The idea that Walt goes into a cocoon in that cabin, and then emerges Rambo after seeing a tv clip is just not good writing. It all feels very much like Vince ending it how he wants, but giving fans what they want, and not really having enough time to develop all that properly.
• gut

  I Wear Pants;1506752 wrote:He wasn't killed. Him coughing while trying to intimidate Saul was not the killing of Heisenberg.
  
  And Walt isn't a schizo either way. Heisenberg is a pseudonym not a second personality.

  That's the whole point in the shaved/unshaved head - Heisenberg is indeed an alter-ego, and he's gone. The main point of the conversation with Saul wasn't about intimidation to get the number of a "guy who knows a guy" (which he obviously got), but the "friendly advice". Walt resigned himself to living out his final days in peace and anonymity. And on that very first day he goes all the way to that gate, then he shuts it and accepts his sentence. Literally closing the book (door) on Heisenberg.