Breaking Bad: Final Season Discussion

• Manhattan Buckeye

  se-alum;1506519 wrote:Please do.

  The writers tried to do too much with too much time (in the Breaking Bad universe) taking place. It ended up disjointed.
  
  Obviously months have transpired. Walt has his hair grown back indicating such.
  
  1) Why is Saul also being "cleaned"? The dude has been involved in sketchy actions all along...now is the time for him to pull this? That scene was thrown together.
  
  2) Speaking of thrown together, Todd's scene with Skyler? WTF? We already know that Walt wants to get revenge on the Nazis (see 3 below) because he explains to Robert Forster everything and Robert Forster tells us everything (and I love Robert Forster, he's an underrated actor) even that the authorities fenced off Walt's house. The scene was completely extraneous.
  
  3) In writing, it is better to show rather than tell. Yet most of this episode told us everything that happened rather than showing us.
  
  4) Poor Jesse's MacGyver sequence could have been left out. Again, it seemed thrown together.
  
  I think it would be very difficult for the writers to have pulled this episode off. They had to deal with a timing sequence that was completely different than what they have had in previous episodes. IMO, they fell short.
• se-alum

  

  Manhattan Buckeye;1506553 wrote:The writers tried to do too much with too much time (in the Breaking Bad universe) taking place. It ended up disjointed.
  
  Obviously months have transpired. Walt has his hair grown back indicating such.
  
  1) Why is Saul also being "cleaned"? The dude has been involved in sketchy actions all along...now is the time for him to pull this? That scene was thrown together.
  
  2) Speaking of thrown together, Todd's scene with Skyler? WTF? We already know that Walt wants to get revenge on the Nazis (see 3 below) because he explains to Robert Forster everything and Robert Forster tells us everything (and I love Robert Forster, he's an underrated actor) even that the authorities fenced off Walt's house. The scene was completely extraneous.
  
  3) In writing, it is better to show rather than tell. Yet most of this episode told us everything that happened rather than showing us.
  
  4) Poor Jesse's MacGyver sequence could have been left out. Again, it seemed thrown together.
  
  I think it would be very difficult for the writers to have pulled this episode off. They had to deal with a timing sequence that was completely different than what they have had in previous episodes. IMO, they fell short.

  Saul has been involved in some sketchy stuff, but not with someone who is accused of killing two DEA agents. That scene was completely realistic. I agree Jesse's escape sequence was a bit far-fetched. Points #2 and #3 are just drabble.
• BoatShoes

  Manhattan Buckeye;1506553 wrote:The writers tried to do too much with too much time (in the Breaking Bad universe) taking place. It ended up disjointed.
  
  Obviously months have transpired. Walt has his hair grown back indicating such.
  
  1) Why is Saul also being "cleaned"? The dude has been involved in sketchy actions all along...now is the time for him to pull this? That scene was thrown together.
  
  2) Speaking of thrown together, Todd's scene with Skyler? WTF? We already know that Walt wants to get revenge on the Nazis (see 3 below) because he explains to Robert Forster everything and Robert Forster tells us everything (and I love Robert Forster, he's an underrated actor) even that the authorities fenced off Walt's house. The scene was completely extraneous.
  
  3) In writing, it is better to show rather than tell. Yet most of this episode told us everything that happened rather than showing us.
  
  4) Poor Jesse's MacGyver sequence could have been left out. Again, it seemed thrown together.
  
  I think it would be very difficult for the writers to have pulled this episode off. They had to deal with a timing sequence that was completely different than what they have had in previous episodes. IMO, they fell short.

  
  I felt the opposite. I felt it was quite coherent. For instance, Skyler zoning out at the beginning just like when Walt zoned out finding out about cancer. The scene with Saul wasn't thrown together at all...it's the parallel between before when Walt bullied Saul "It's over when I say it's over" and this time when Walt attempts to bully he falls in a heap coughing like a weakling, etc.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  se-alum;1506562 wrote:Saul has been involved in some sketchy stuff, but not with someone who is accused of killing two DEA agents. That scene was completely realistic. I agree Jesse's escape sequence was a bit far-fetched. Points #2 and #3 are just drabble.

  It is drabble to point out that the writers didn't show us anything? For the first 30 minutes of this episode I wasn't even sure I was watching Breaking Bad.
• I Wear Pants

  Yeah, still drabble.
• Fab4Runner

  

  Manhattan Buckeye;1506576 wrote:It is drabble to point out that the writers didn't show us anything? For the first 30 minutes of this episode I wasn't even sure I was watching Breaking Bad.

  Yep, it is. Especially after reading Peter Gould's thoughts on all of it.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  Fab4Runner;1506597 wrote:Yep, it is. Especially after reading Peter Gould's thoughts on all of it.

  Is that the Rolling Stone guy? Hmmm, in that event, not a fan.
  
  The episode didn't work for me. Sorry if it offends people's sensitivities. I love Seinfeld, but the last episode was terrible. I love The Wire, but the fifth season had its problems. I at one point loved The Simpsons and The Family Guy but can admit that both shows ran their course. The Office (US version) after the third season.....well.
  
  I watched the past episode of Breaking Bad, and I almost had to fast forward through parts of it. I'm not sure what Vince Gilligan (X-Files, love that too, but it started getting bad after season 5) and company were thinking.
  
  I still have it on my Apple TV so I can re-watch it. But I don't think I will other than to see Robert Forster.
• Fab4Runner

  

  Manhattan Buckeye;1506615 wrote:Is that the Rolling Stone guy? Hmmm, in that event, not a fan.
  
  The episode didn't work for me. Sorry if it offends people's sensitivities. I love Seinfeld, but the last episode was terrible. I love The Wire, but the fifth season had its problems. I at one point loved The Simpsons and The Family Guy but can admit that both shows ran their course. The Office (US version) after the third season.....well.
  
  I watched the past episode of Breaking Bad, and I almost had to fast forward through parts of it. I'm not sure what Vince Gilligan (X-Files, love that too, but it started getting bad after season 5) and company were thinking.
  
  I still have it on my Apple TV so I can re-watch it. But I don't think I will other than to see Robert Forster.

  He's the writer of 11 episodes of what you call one of the top ten shows in TV history. You're a fan of him.
• gut

  BoatShoes;1506157 wrote:You've gone full Manhattan Buckeye with this post. Just enjoy one of the greatest shows on T.V. man!

  No I didn't. I didn't say this season sucked or that Breaking Bad hasn't been an all-time great show. I guess I forget that sometimes threads aren't intended to discuss something but just a circle jerk.
  
  I've only said the writing and wrap-up has not lived up to the very high bar the show set for itself in previous years. But I sometimes forget this board is full of simpleton's like Tiernan who are enamored with the amazing amount of redundant closure Vince is shoveling.
  
  They actually alluded to that on Talking Bad. Vince doesn't like that people like Walt, so he's practically beating it into thick skulls with a shovel.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  gut;1506642 wrote:No I didn't. I didn't say this season sucked or that Breaking Bad hasn't been an all-time great show. I guess I forget that sometimes threads aren't intended to discuss something but just a circle jerk.
  
  I've only said the writing and wrap-up has not lived up to the very high bar the show set for itself in previous years. But I sometimes forget this board is full of simpleton's like Tiernan who are enamored with the amazing amount of redundant closure Vince is shoveling.
  
  They actually alluded to that on Talking Bad. Vince doesn't like that people like Walt, so he's practically beating it into thick skulls with a shovel.

  Heck, I even said that this an all-time great show and am getting shat on.
  
  Family Guy actually had an episode about this.
• gut

  Manhattan Buckeye;1506489 wrote:Just watched and completely agree. That was the worst episode of the season, if not the series. It seemed disjointed and completely out of the blue.

  I can pretty much sum up that story arc for this last episode...
  
  Walt has given up. Walt is motivated. Walt has given up. Walt is motivated.
  Jesse has given up. Jesse wants to live. Jesse has given up. Jesse wants to live.
  
  And Todd and the Brotherhood are whatever Vince needs them to be at the moment.
  
  It was a transitional episode, and that's fine. But the writing has rarely been so direct and obvious. It's still a comparatively better (even much better) final season than, say Sopranos or The Wire. Although I thought the actual finale of those shows was brilliant.
• I Wear Pants

  gut;1506642 wrote:No I didn't. I didn't say this season sucked or that Breaking Bad hasn't been an all-time great show. I guess I forget that sometimes threads aren't intended to discuss something but just a circle jerk.
  
  I've only said the writing and wrap-up has not lived up to the very high bar the show set for itself in previous years. But I sometimes forget this board is full of simpleton's like Tiernan who are enamored with the amazing amount of redundant closure Vince is shoveling.
  
  They actually alluded to that on Talking Bad. Vince doesn't like that people like Walt, so he's practically beating it into thick skulls with a shovel.

  Not that it makes us right, but from what I've seen the vast majority of critics and viewers disagree with you and think this has been the best season.
  
  I think you're completely off the mark when it comes to your opinion that the writing has been lazy or unbelievable. But I doubt god could convince you otherwise so it's sort of moot to argue about it. At least you haven't been saying the episodes were horrible like Manhattan Buckeye has, just that you didn't like parts. That's reasonable, I disagree strongly but it's at least a sane thought.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  The series was supposed to end at Season 4....even the writers and Vince Gilligan admitted to that. They (the writers) had to make up something on the fly. Some of it worked, some of it hasn't. The last episode didn't.
  
  "At least you haven't been saying the episodes were horrible like Manhattan Buckeye has,"
  
  If you can explain to me this past episode, I'll be in your debt. No part of it made sense.
• gut

  I Wear Pants;1506646 wrote:Not that it makes us right, but from what I've seen the vast majority of critics and viewers disagree with you and think this has been the best season. .

  That doesn't particularly surprise me. People LOVE them some closure, and Vince is indulging us.
  
  But if you take the final Sopranos scene as an example, almost universally it was initially a "wtf?". To this day a lot of fans hate it, but that scene was absolutely brilliant. They hate it because everything didn't get wrapped up in a neat little bow.
• I Wear Pants

  Manhattan Buckeye;1506649 wrote:The series was supposed to end at Season 4....even the writers and Vince Gilligan admitted to that. They (the writers) had to make up something on the fly. Some of it worked, some of it hasn't. The last episode didn't.
  
  "At least you haven't been saying the episodes were horrible like Manhattan Buckeye has,"
  
  If you can explain to me this past episode, I'll be in your debt. No part of it made sense.

  Are, are you retarded?
  
  Whether you like it like most of us or dislike it like gut, it wasn't hard to follow.
• gut

  Manhattan Buckeye;1506649 wrote:
  If you can explain to me this past episode, I'll be in your debt. No part of it made sense.

  I think somewhere, even before the season started, I said Walt was going to lose absolutely everything and be totally isolate (I was cheating, that was based on Vince saying he cried and Walt's wasn't riding off into the sunset). And we knew the brotherhood would figure prominently - I just didn't expect them to be a lump of clay that Vince would constantly re-mold into whatever suited his purpose at the moment.
  
  But that's what I mean about being obvious. They chose to LITERALLY isolate Walt to drive that point home. But then that posed a challenge as to how to bring Walt back. I mean, for crying out loud Walt is sitting there waiting to be arrested, but then he just happens to see his former partners on tv disrespecting him. And the thing is, NONE of that was necessary (or particularly compelling/believable).
• Manhattan Buckeye

  No, no I'm not.
  
  Can you explain to me Todd's scene with Skyler? What purpose did it serve?
• I Wear Pants

  gut;1506655 wrote:I think somewhere, even before the season started, I said Walt was going to lose absolutely everything and be totally isolate (I was cheating, that was based on Vince saying he cried and Walt's wasn't riding off into the sunset). And we knew the brotherhood would figure prominently - I just didn't expect them to be a lump of clay that Vince would constantly re-mold into whatever suited his purpose at the moment.
  
  But that's what I mean about being obvious. They chose to LITERALLY isolate Walt to drive that point home. But then that posed a challenge as to how to bring Walt back. I mean, for crying out loud Walt is sitting there waiting to be arrested, but then he just happens to see his former partners on tv disrespecting him. And the thing is, NONE of that was necessary (or particularly compelling/believable).

  You don't think a large publicly traded company that was co-founded by Walter would be doing poorly and have its executives doing interviews to explain his past and current role in the organization? I do.
• I Wear Pants

  Manhattan Buckeye;1506656 wrote:No, no I'm not.
  
  Can you explain to me Todd's scene with Skyler? What purpose did it serve?

  Skyler nor Walter's family are safe even with Walter gone and out of the business. Not only does she have the DEA likely to press charges but she also has Walt's former associates who know she's a loose end that needs to be kept quiet. It's similar to Gus saying "I will kill your unborn child", except Holly has clearly been born.
• Pick6

  

  I Wear Pants;1506661 wrote:You don't think a large publicly traded company that was co-founded by Walter would be doing poorly and have its executives doing interviews to explain his past and current role in the organization? I do.

  this. Its not like Walt is currently one of the most wanted convicts in the nation or anything.
• BoatShoes

  gut;1506642 wrote:No I didn't. I didn't say this season sucked or that Breaking Bad hasn't been an all-time great show. I guess I forget that sometimes threads aren't intended to discuss something but just a circle jerk.
  
  I've only said the writing and wrap-up has not lived up to the very high bar the show set for itself in previous years. But I sometimes forget this board is full of simpleton's like Tiernan who are enamored with the amazing amount of redundant closure Vince is shoveling.
  
  They actually alluded to that on Talking Bad. Vince doesn't like that people like Walt, so he's practically beating it into thick skulls with a shovel.

  I didn't say anything to suggest that you said the show sucked. In fact I normally enjoy your analysis of tv shows. I said you went "Full Manhattan Buckeye". You know; histrionic nitpicking of film and t.v. that is worthy of flaming...and you even said "I know I'm gonna get flamed" so chill guy!
• se-alum

  

  gut;1506651 wrote:That doesn't particularly surprise me. People LOVE them some closure, and Vince is indulging us.
  
  But if you take the final Sopranos scene as an example, almost universally it was initially a "wtf?". To this day a lot of fans hate it, but that scene was absolutely brilliant. They hate it because everything didn't get wrapped up in a neat little bow.

  So people don't like to invest 6 years into a show, and then not see any finality? I'm shocked. People want to see a beginning, a middle, and an end. We don't want to guess at the ending, cause we could do that after the 1st season and not worry about investing time in the show.
• gut

  Manhattan Buckeye;1506553 wrote:The writers tried to do too much with too much time (in the Breaking Bad universe) taking place. It ended up disjointed.
  
  Obviously months have transpired. Walt has his hair grown back indicating such.
  
  1) Why is Saul also being "cleaned"? The dude has been involved in sketchy actions all along...now is the time for him to pull this? That scene was thrown together.
  Skylar is getting heat. Most likely they go after her for tax evasion. Saul set all that up.
  
  2) Speaking of thrown together, Todd's scene with Skyler? WTF? We already know that Walt wants to get revenge on the Nazis (see 3 below) because he explains to Robert Forster everything and Robert Forster tells us everything (and I love Robert Forster, he's an underrated actor) even that the authorities fenced off Walt's house. The scene was completely extraneous.
  She could roll on Lydia. Todd doesn't kill her because he does like/respect Walter. It's the only reason, as he has no problem putting a bullet in the head of a single mom. It's unclear if the purpose of the visit was a business decision (as Lydia is their partner) or simply to please Lydia who Todd has a crush on. Probably both.
  
  3) In writing, it is better to show rather than tell. Yet most of this episode told us everything that happened rather than showing us.
  Agreed. And somewhat out of character for the show, they've also frequently manufactured drama this year.
  
  4) Poor Jesse's MacGyver sequence could have been left out. Again, it seemed thrown together.
  Not the best example of manufactured drama I was referring to. The threat has already been implied with the picture. But they needed Jesse to quit or escape so they could go kill his girlfriend. Also somewhat of an example how they boxed themselves in - they are beating us over the head with Jesse being redeemed, sympathetic and worthy of saving, but [presumably] they still need Jesse alive at that compound. They have to literally show us Jesse is willing to die to get out of the business so, ok, now we have to go kill the girlfriend.
  
  I think it would be very difficult for the writers to have pulled this episode off. They had to deal with a timing sequence that was completely different than what they have had in previous episodes. IMO, they fell short.
  I think that kind of sums up the season. They have this story arc they want to tell/wrap, but a limited time to do it. As a result, some of the twists/turns they've thrown in have felt rushed and/or forced. That maybe wouldn't have to be the case if they weren't so repetitive and redundant with some of the other things going on.

  ...
• BoatShoes

  Manhattan Buckeye;1506656 wrote:No, no I'm not.
  
  Can you explain to me Todd's scene with Skyler? What purpose did it serve?

  
  Everyone got cut down even deeper. Everyone was in a bad spot and it got even worse. Skyler is free from Walt but now all of Walt's demons are still around to potentially harm her and her family. It got even worse. Jessie escapes from his prison but it gets even worse after Andrea is killed. Walt goes off to his prison but somewhere deep down he holds onto a pretty obvious false hope that he can still get money to his family....and it ends up even worse when Junior rejects him over the phone. Everyone went off a cliff the previous episode and then they just tumbled even further down in this one...but then Walt's ego of all things....probably both because his blue meth is said to be in circulation when it is his creation and that the Schwartz are denying that he created grey matter...Walt's Ego makes him set his drink down and decide not to wait for the police.
• gut

  I Wear Pants;1506661 wrote:You don't think a large publicly traded company that was co-founded by Walter would be doing poorly and have its executives doing interviews to explain his past and current role in the organization? I do.

  I didn't say that. It just felt a little too convenient and cheap. It's on par with everything being a dream - "Dallas" got crushed for that. They did the exact same thing with that tv show - the equivalent of a reset button after they've finished throwing dirt on the grave of Heisenberg.
  
  It's "gotchya" writing that falls well short of the standard this show established it's first 4.5 seasons or whatever.