5/7/11 More trouble for OSU
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lhslep134
WTF is so hard for some of you guys to understand (Knightryder). Do you honestly expect Tressel (or ANY D1 football coach) to know what each and every one of his players is doing 24/7? The best he can do is educate them, hope they make the right choices, and step in if he hears otherwise. He failed to step in this time with Pryor and now he's going to pay the price.
But with fuckups like Ray Small? How the hell is Tressel supposed to know that Small blatently ignored the rules taught to him by Tressel and the AD? He's not.
And before you think I'm just defending Tressel, I'd say the same thing about any college coach. If my friend Chase were to illegally sell some of his Rose Bowl stuff behind Bielema's back, would I blame Bielema? Not if Chase was taught the rules. -
KnightRyder
FatHobbit;783005 wrote:I can admit there was some shady stuff going on with Clarett, but nothing was ever proved (that went unpunished) and you don't know the school had any knowledge of it going on. Nothing OSU does, besides shutting down, will make you happy. Hate on...
you seem to forget that the main reason the ncaa never proved any of clarett's allegations was due to the fact that clarett wouldnt speak to the ncaa about it. -
lhslep134
karen lotz;782311 wrote:So Tressel assured Youngstown State there were no violations, but didn't talk to either person involved after recieving a tip that something had gone on? And Tressel couldn't remember if he discussed the allegations with Isaac? Just like some on here said he could have forgotten about receiving emails from Cicero?
No. Malmisur, who was on Monus' payroll, informed Cochran there were no violations.
Again, I wouldn't expect you to know exactly what happened since you're not from Youngstown. It was Malmisur who handled the "investigation" not Tressel. I don't expect Tressel to have known Malmisur was on Monus' payroll. Youngstown was as corrupt a city as you're going to find if not more.
That article didn't tell the whole truth because it was framed to make Tressel look bad. Tressel fucked up really badly with the Pryor situation but that doesn't automatically mean he was guilty in a MUCH shadier situation involving an extremely wealthy corrupt business man and a crooked athletic director. -
enigmaaxFatHobbit;783004 wrote: In my mind what made USC so bad was I think they knew it was going on and did nothing to stop it.
It has been so long since I've read anything about that, so I could be wrong, but was it ever really a case of USC knowing it was going on or was it that the NCAA said they should have known? I know they had two coaches involved - the basketball coach who paid for something himself and the assistant football coach who knew about Bush. Was there more to it than that?
It would seem that since the NCAA has avoided the "lack of institutional control" charge in the OSU case that at least in that regard, they don't see the violations in the same way. However, Tressel is at least as guilty as the USC assistant coach (probably moreso, since he's the head guy and there's a paper trail indicting him). The cause for comparing the two cases probably comes from the fact that OSU is within the time frame of having major violations as a "repeat offender" (which I don't think was the case at USC but again, I could be wrong). The NCAA reserves its harshest punishment for that classification and although the "death penalty" is obviously not going to happen, the fact that it is on the books for this specific cause tells you how serious the NCAA views repeat offending. That is why a lot of people feel the NCAA is going to bring the hammer down and since the most recent instance of the NCAA putting it to a major program is USC, the two are going to be in the same conversation. -
KnightRyder
lhslep134;783012 wrote:WTF is so hard for some of you guys to understand (Knightryder). Do you honestly expect Tressel (or ANY D1 football coach) to know what each and every one of his players is doing 24/7? The best he can do is educate them, hope they make the right choices, and step in if he hears otherwise. He failed to step in this time with Pryor and now he's going to pay the price.
But with fuckups like Ray Small? How the hell is Tressel supposed to know that Small blatently ignored the rules taught to him by Tressel and the AD? He's not.
And before you think I'm just defending Tressel, I'd say the same thing about any college coach. If my friend Chase were to illegally sell some of his Rose Bowl stuff behind Bielema's back, would I blame Bielema? Not if Chase was taught the rules.
no i dont expect many to coachs to what all the players are doing all of time. but given the meticulous nature of jim tressel i would expect him to know what the vast majority of his players are doing , especially his star players. and do you really think for one minute that this tattoo business started with this current crop of OSU players? if you do then you are naive. and dont find it alarming that players were trading memorabilia for tattoos to a person that is being investigated for drug trafficking? -
WebFireI do think some of you don't realize what Small's comments could POTENTIALLY mean to the case. Discredit him all you want, but what really matters is what the NCAA thinks. Small's comments could be nothing at all, but they COULD mean something. That we won't know for a while.
Good article on this topic: http://www.cleveland.com/osu/index.ssf/2011/05/accusations_by_ray_small_could.html
Where Small's words matter most is in the scope of the potential violations. When Ohio State announced the player violations and suspensions in December, OSU Athletic Director Gene Smith said: "We're very fortunate we don't have a systemic problem. It's isolated to these young men in this particular instance".NCAA issues: According to Florida attorney and NCAA expert Michael Buckner, both Ohio State and the NCAA should be expected to attempt to speak with Small to investigate what he said. News stories cannot become part of an NCAA hearing without some independent verification.
Whether Small potentially chooses to talk with the NCAA, which he is under no obligation to do since he's no longer in college, could matter greatly. Former OSU running back Maurice Clarett leveled much more serious charges against Ohio State in a 2004 magazine story, but the NCAA never proved the allegations, in large part because Clarett wouldn't speak with the NCAA. Still, the NCAA could attempt to verify Small's claims in other ways.
Though the NCAA has already sent the Notice of Allegations in this case, Buckner said this new information potentially could be added to this case or handled separately. Small said players were educated about NCAA rules by Ohio State, but if the NCAA would find any sustained pattern to the violations, Buckner said Ohio State could be hit with a lack of institutional control, a major charge that hasn't been made by the NCAA at this point. -
Writerbuckeye
KnightRyder;783015 wrote:you seem to forget that the main reason the ncaa never proved any of clarett's allegations was due to the fact that clarett wouldnt speak to the ncaa about it.
I hear this argument from people who dislike OSU and have to laugh. Why? Because it really doesn't matter if Clarett doesn't talk to them. They have the allegations from him that were public -- and for any punishment to happen, THERE HAS TO BE SOME KIND OF PROOF FOUND. Someone making an allegation (talking to them or not) ALONE isn't typically going to get you sanctions.
Why do you think the Reggie Bush allegations took so long to investigate? The NCAA knew about the allegations for YEARS and couldn't do squat. It wasn't until corroborating evidence (from other people and documents) was provided, that they came down hard on USC.
Keep trying to pile on, though. -
imex99
nbc4i.com:
Federal prosecutors charge tattoo parlor owner who purchased Ohio State football memorabilia.
By ElkandElk.com
Swyped from my HTC Evo with Eternal Prophecy 6.0 ROM. -
WebFireWriterbuckeye;783040 wrote:I hear this argument from people who dislike OSU and have to laugh. Why? Because it really doesn't matter if Clarett doesn't talk to them. They have the allegations from him that were public -- and for any punishment to happen, THERE HAS TO BE SOME KIND OF PROOF FOUND. Someone making an allegation (talking to them or not) ALONE isn't typically going to get you sanctions.
Why do you think the Reggie Bush allegations took so long to investigate? The NCAA knew about the allegations for YEARS and couldn't do squat. It wasn't until corroborating evidence (from other people and documents) was provided, that they came down hard on USC.
Keep trying to pile on, though.
Wasn't that his point? The NCAA couldn't do much since MC wouldn't talk. There wasn't easy evidence just laying around, so the NCAA left town. -
WebFireimex99;783045 wrote:nbc4i.com:
Federal prosecutors charge tattoo parlor owner who purchased Ohio State football memorabilia.
By ElkandElk.com
Swyped from my HTC Evo with Eternal Prophecy 6.0 ROM.
With what? -
KnightRyder
did the thought ever enter your mind that maybe clarett had the proof and without his cooperation the ncaa had nothing?i know that is a bit much for you to entertain , but its tough to prove a case if your star witness wont talk. you guys can bash small and try to take away his credability but the bottom line is small has inside knowledge of the OSU football program.Writerbuckeye;783040 wrote:I hear this argument from people who dislike OSU and have to laugh. Why? Because it really doesn't matter if Clarett doesn't talk to them. They have the allegations from him that were public -- and for any punishment to happen, THERE HAS TO BE SOME KIND OF PROOF FOUND. Someone making an allegation (talking to them or not) ALONE isn't typically going to get you sanctions.
Why do you think the Reggie Bush allegations took so long to investigate? The NCAA knew about the allegations for YEARS and couldn't do squat. It wasn't until corroborating evidence (from other people and documents) was provided, that they came down hard on USC.
Keep trying to pile on, though. -
enigmaax
Didn't Tressel introduce Isaac to Monus? I didn't read much about this recently, but seem to recall that being the case when reading about it a few years ago. Also, didn't Monus put a lot of YSU players to work? Those things would certainly cast some doubt on whether Tressel could really not have any clue.lhslep134;783017 wrote:No. Malmisur, who was on Monus' payroll, informed Cochran there were no violations.
Again, I wouldn't expect you to know exactly what happened since you're not from Youngstown. It was Malmisur who handled the "investigation" not Tressel. I don't expect Tressel to have known Malmisur was on Monus' payroll. Youngstown was as corrupt a city as you're going to find if not more.
That article didn't tell the whole truth because it was framed to make Tressel look bad. Tressel fucked up really badly with the Pryor situation but that doesn't automatically mean he was guilty in a MUCH shadier situation involving an extremely wealthy corrupt business man and a crooked athletic director.
One other thing that I'll point out is that when guys like Clarett and Small speak out, their character or other issues immediately undermines their credibility. Their personal issues or what they have to lose/gain is a factor in the perception of their honesty. In Isaac's case, he has publically stated how much he loves Tressel and the personal guidance Tressel continued to provide for him outside of YSU/football. That personal attachment would certainly be a reason to protect Tressel publically. Or said another way, of course he's going to say Tressel didn't know anything about it. There's room for doubt as to whether or not Isaac was forthcoming as he was shady, but just had a different reason to lie than the other guys. -
lhslep134
KnightRyder;783034 wrote:but given the meticulous nature of jim tressel i would expect him to know what the vast majority of his players are doingKnightRyder;783034 wrote:if you do then you are naive?
I'm posting both of these quotes to show how much of a hypocritical idiot you are. You are on one hand accusing ME of being naive, and on the other hand you're saying you're expecting Tressel to literally account for these kids 24/7. How the hell is Tressel supposed to know if a kid drives off from practice and goes and sells his B10 championship ring while he's still meeting with the coaches after practice.
You've obviously never had kids. If you did, you would understand even knowing the 100% whereabouts or what exactly your kid is doing (at least from the age of teenager on) is impossible. Hell, I'm just graduating college and I know that, because I'm realistic and understand that there is NO practicality in thinking that a coach can know what 80 players are doing 24/7 at once.
Just shut up because you're a hypocritical fool. -
lhslep134
enigmaax;783069 wrote:Didn't Tressel introduce Isaac to Monus? I didn't read much about this recently, but seem to recall that being the case when reading about it a few years ago. Also, didn't Monus put a lot of YSU players to work? Those things would certainly cast some doubt on whether Tressel could really not have any clue.
Tressel introduced Isaac to Monus because at the time Monus DID employ several football players in legitimate jobs. I remember going to Phar-Mor when I was younger because it was near my dad's car wash and seeing these big football players working there.
My guess is that Isaac had the "everything should be given to me" attitude that Pryor has, and Monus happily complied. But Monus did legitimately employ several football players and my understanding is that Tressel expected Isaac to be treated the same as the other players given jobs. -
enigmaaxWebFire;783039 wrote:I do think some of you don't realize what Small's comments could POTENTIALLY mean to the case. Discredit him all you want, but what really matters is what the NCAA thinks. Small's comments could be nothing at all, but they COULD mean something. That we won't know for a while.
Yes, may or may not end up being damaging. But some of the common responses are misguided. His issues or his motivation aren't important because he was speculating or trying to out someone else - he admitted to a violation. And "everybody" doesn't have to be doing it like he said. And though it may not impact Tressel specifically (he didn't have to know), if there were just a few other folks in his group that were involved and any of them talk (including Small himself) to the NCAA, it adds a new layer to the overall picture of OSU. -
thedynasty1998
Wonder if Rife will do time. Crazy thing is the back channel ties he has to the program, which I will not disclose and I hope doesn't become a factor in all this. -
enigmaaxlhslep134;783081 wrote:Tressel introduced Isaac to Monus because at the time Monus DID employ several football players in legitimate jobs. I remember going to Phar-Mor when I was younger because it was near my dad's car wash and seeing these big football players working there.
My guess is that Isaac had the "everything should be given to me" attitude that Pryor has, and Monus happily complied. But Monus did legitimately employ several football players and my understanding is that Tressel expected Isaac to be treated the same as the other players given jobs.
Up until the point that Monus was busted, was he thought to be reputable by people in town? I know there are situations where guys are suspected of being slimy and never get caught...or eventually do get caught. Other times, it comes as a complete surprise. Do you know what the feeling about Monus was before he was caught (you are probably too young to have known it at the time, but maybe you've talked with people over the years?)? -
KnightRyder
lhslep134;783070 wrote:I'm posting both of these quotes to show how much of a hypocritical idiot you are. You are on one hand accusing ME of being naive, and on the other hand you're saying you're expecting Tressel to literally account for these kids 24/7. How the hell is Tressel supposed to know if a kid drives off from practice and goes and sells his B10 championship ring while he's still meeting with the coaches after practice.
You've obviously never had kids. If you did, you would understand even knowing the 100% whereabouts or what exactly your kid is doing (at least from the age of teenager on) is impossible. Hell, I'm just graduating college and I know that, because I'm realistic and understand that there is NO practicality in thinking that a coach can know what 80 players are doing 24/7 at once.
Just shut up because you're a hypocritical fool.
i find it hard to believe that tressel doesnt have anyone on his staff to keep tabs on the players. now really who is the fool here, basically your trying to tell us that tressel doesnt keep tabs on any of the players. if he doesnt know what his star QB is doing then he doesnt know what anyone on the team is doing. i find that hard to believe. i know no one can keep tabs on all 80 players , but according to you he doesnt even know what his best players are doing. and yes you are naive. -
enigmaaxKnightRyder;783123 wrote:i find it hard to believe that tressel doesnt have anyone on his staff to keep tabs on the players. now really who is the fool here, basically your trying to tell us that tressel doesnt keep tabs on any of the players. if he doesnt know what his star QB is doing then he doesnt know what anyone on the team is doing. i find that hard to believe. i know no one can keep tabs on all 80 players , but according to you he doesnt even know what his best players are doing. and yes you are naive.
What is it that you think he should have known about? I mean, a lot of poor ass people have tattoos. What would give a person cause to think, "my quarterback seems to have a lot of tattoos, maybe he's selling shit to get them"? -
lhslep134
It was almost impossible to know outright if someone was corrupt or not in Youngstown. Monus did some business with my dad's friends and they are not the type of people to get ripped off or deal with corruption. In fact I think my grandpa managed some of his money at Paine-Webber, and that was all perfectly legal. Some people who dealt with Monus said he's shadier than a giant oak tree while others did perfectly legitimate business with him. I mean he convinced 33 states that he had a perfectly legitimate business before being caught so clearly it's hard to tell how corrupt someone is (unless it's Traficant lol).enigmaax;783102 wrote:Up until the point that Monus was busted, was he thought to be reputable by people in town? I know there are situations where guys are suspected of being slimy and never get caught...or eventually do get caught. Other times, it comes as a complete surprise. Do you know what the feeling about Monus was before he was caught (you are probably too young to have known it at the time, but maybe you've talked with people over the years?)?
In terms of dealing with the case, I would guess that due to the amount of football players who worked for Monus within the context of the NCAA rulebook, Tressel assumed that Isaac's case would be no different. Also, when it came to investigation, I think it's within the realm of possibility that Monus paid Malmisur to report to Cochran everything was okay as well as thoroughly convincing Tressel it was.
Think about it this way (I'm putting myself in Tressel's shoes). If my boss tells me that there is a man offering legal job opportunities for my football players, and I refer 10 of them to him and all 10 of them report it was great, legal, etc. then I'm going to assume the 11th person I refer is receiving that same opportunity. Then I hear that it's not so legal. I ask my boss as well as the employer if anything illegal happened, and they both say no (why did Malmisur? because he was on Monus' payroll). At that point, what am I supposed to do? -
lhslep134
KnightRyder;783123 wrote:i find it hard to believe that tressel doesnt have anyone on his staff to keep tabs on the players.
Okay, you're admitting you're an idiot. Fine by me. You can't keep 24/7 tabs on 80 players. Now it's painfully obvious you don't have kids because you would understand this concept. -
FatHobbit
I think the assitant football coach having direct knowledge of it is the issue. (and I assume he did nothing to stop it.)enigmaax;783018 wrote:It has been so long since I've read anything about that, so I could be wrong, but was it ever really a case of USC knowing it was going on or was it that the NCAA said they should have known? I know they had two coaches involved - the basketball coach who paid for something himself and the assistant football coach who knew about Bush. Was there more to it than that?
enigmaax;783018 wrote:It would seem that since the NCAA has avoided the "lack of institutional control" charge in the OSU case that at least in that regard, they don't see the violations in the same way. However, Tressel is at least as guilty as the USC assistant coach (probably moreso, since he's the head guy and there's a paper trail indicting him).
IMHO, if Tressel handled this and put a stop to it he's not as guilty as the USC coach. (It's still an NCAA issue and he did lie about it, but I would like to think he isn't a cheater and he tried to stop it.) If he knew about it and did nothing, then he is more guilty than the USC coach, again IMHO, because he is the head coach. -
enigmaaxFatHobbit;783164 wrote:I think the assitant football coach having direct knowledge of it is the issue. (and I assume he did nothing to stop it.)
IMHO, if Tressel handled this and put a stop to it he's not as guilty as the USC coach. (It's still an NCAA issue and he did lie about it, but I would like to think he isn't a cheater and he tried to stop it.) If he knew about it and did nothing, then he is more guilty than the USC coach, again IMHO, because he is the head coach.
I'm not sure how well, "hey Reggie's parents, you guys need to move out of that house" would've worked. It is a little bit different than being able to say, "don't sell any more shit". In both cases, they should have reported it outside of any other type of intervention. Neither did and that's why its the same. -
vball10sethttp://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6598929
COLUMBUS, Ohio -- The tattoo parlor owner who bought Ohio State football memorabilia was charged Friday in federal court with drug trafficking and money laundering, though his attorney said there's no connection with the scandal unfolding over the sale of the items.