NCAA Defines OSU Misconduct/ Tressel Emails Released

• enigmaax

  Writerbuckeye;750419 wrote: Also (2) he has written several books about character, doing the right thing, etc., which are all admirable goals. The media doesn't see it that way, however, and think of him as being arrogant and self-righteous.
  
  They've wanted to bring him down for some time -- and he not only opened the door, he blew the damn thing off its hinges.

  I don't ever remember seeing the media looking to bring Tressel down before this incident. The perception as it relates to the books is based primarily on the fact that he wrote all of those things then so drastically defied those things. He didn't look as arrogant and self-righteous as long as people thought he really lived what he preached; it isn't that he wrote the books in the first place, it is that he wrote them and provided fodder that makes them seem like a farce.
  
  

  Writerbuckeye;750419 wrote: Think about it: have you seen this many columns calling for a college football coach's head EVER in the past 5 years or more? I can't recall any.
  
  Even when USC was facing FAR more egregious violations in both its basketball and football programs, you didn't see the constant string of columns and radio hosts calling for Petey to be fired. Of course, when most of that was FINALLY put into a letter to USC, he was already packing his bags to flee to Seattle.

  There are a couple major differences between Tressel and the USC situation. One, Carroll was never directly implicated and was never proven to have directly lied about his knowledge even after being directly confronted. The USC coach who did supposedly have knowledge lost his job. USC also canned its corrupt basketball coach. And nearly (if not every single one) every other coach guilty of the same violation as Tressel was relieved of his coaching duties.
  
  The other schools didn't stagger punishments or keep revealing a little info here and a little info there. Tressel covered it up initially, then played dumb, then punished his players while publically criticizing them, then got caught, then takes a 2 game vacation, then asks for more, then has a little more revealed. It keeps looking more and more like OSU tried this punishment and that punishment to keep the heat off them because they knew there was much more to it (fair or not). Eventually when you keep digging that hole, people are going to expect you to bury yourself in it.
  
  Other schools, including USC, went right to it (or in Carroll's case, he got out on his own before it came to that). The end result has always been the same, OSU and Tressel just seem unwilling to accept it - which is why people are talking about it.
  

  Writerbuckeye;750419 wrote: I don't see OSU's bigwigs...the big money folks who pull most of the strings behind the scenes...putting up with a constant onslaught of bad PR between now and then. And it WILL continue, because these guys want Tressel GONE and they won't be happy until he is. As such, I see him finally being pressured into resigning to prevent continued damage to the school's reputation.
  
  Right or wrong (I think he's being unfairly targeted) I think his career at OSU is going to end sometime this year.

  
  Yeah. Unfortunately for Tressel, his and the school's image were expected to be pristine. And for a long time he pulled off. That isn't the case any longer and since they aren't getting what they paid for in that regard, there probably isn't much hope.
• ksig489

  ^^^ one of the best, most logical, most unbiased posts I have seen on any site referring to why OSU is perceived as being picked on. They aren't...just bringing it on themselves with the way they have handled the situation.
  
  

  FatHobbit;750506 wrote:That depends on the rule. Is this really a major rule?

  
  You are mistaking what the players did for what the coach did. But even then, the players broke a major rule as well. They essentially used gifts from the university as a way to make money (which is why some people are saying that they were being "paid" by OSU...I dont agree with that logic, but I can see how some people do. The university gave them awards under the idea that they would not sell them).
  
  The compliance report is a MAJOR part of the NCAA. So intentionally falsifying the report is a major infraction. Tressell is 100% guilty of breaking a MAJOR NCAA rule.
  
  Imagine if someone falsified their time sheet at work and included several hours they didn't work. Would they get fired? You bet.
  
  I know that it isnt the same as what Tressell did, but it is the first thing I thought of when it came to falsifying a major document at work.
  
  At many schools if a student falsifies work (plagiarism) and gets caught, they will likely be kicked out of school for academic misconduct. I saw it happen to several people when I was in college.
• enigmaax

  jhay78;750425 wrote: 1) Earle Bruce- OK, former OSU coach and Buckeye homer, but he made the point that the NCAA is a joke and that they enforce things at times to give the appearance that they're a governing body who's got it all under control- not that they care about integrity.
  
  2) Rich Rodriguez- said the NCAA should be looking at the schools who don't self-report, not those who do.
  
  3) Barry Switzer- compared the Tressel stuff to "jaywalking", compared to other stuff that goes on.

  
  I pretty much agree with these guys. Except Rich Rod. For one, self-reporting doesn't make the original act any less wrong. But the point here is that Tressel didn't report it. Even if you want to cut OSU some slack because the administration reported the cover-up, Tressel remains on the hook for not reporting it. Had he given the school the opportunity to self-report when it was originally uncovered, we wouldn't be talking about any of this.
• jordo212000

  

  FatHobbit;750506 wrote:That depends on the rule. Is this really a major rule?

  
  smh
• jhay78

  

  Manhattan Buckeye;750426 wrote:"3) Barry Switzer- compared the Tressel stuff to "jaywalking", compared to other stuff that goes on."
  
  LOL! Switzer was the worst of the 80's CFB cheats. He nearly killed Okie's program.
  
  At some point reality has to come to the surface. Ohio State paid its players (in one way or the other), it depends on how much Tressel knew about it. His record is enough to give him the benefit of the doubt, but facts trump doubt.

  Exactly. Switzer knows what real cheating is, what really gives a program a competitive advantage, vs. other "jaywalking" types of violations.
  

  elbuckeye28;750438 wrote:Although this article isn't really guilty of this, I'm tired of the media comparing the Tressel situation to the Bruce Pearl situation.
  
  1. Bruce Pearl committed the initial violation(albeit a minor violation), lied about it, and tried to get the players to lie about it as well. It was a lot more black and white in that sense.
  
  2. Pearl continued to make questionable decisions and commit violations while the investigation was ongoing.
  
  3. His team underachieved after being #7 in the country and got smoked in the NCAA tournament.
  
  4. The University of Tennessee (specifically related to the Kiffin debacle) has a number of major NCAA issues to contend with.
  
  5. Football is king at UT, exactly like OSU. A coach in the 2nd(or 3rd at UT) most popular sport is more expendable than the coach in the most popular sport at a given school.

  
  Great point. If I read one more article with one more sentence that has the words "Jim Tressel" and "Bruce Pearl" close together, I'm going to vomit.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  People need to understand that media members have a different mindset than you or I. Many (most) are of the opinion that they know better than your average Joe what's best for the world. It's an ego and elitism that builds slowly over time, and the higher the reporter is in the world of journalism, the more likely he is to feel this way and express it.
  
  You can believe me or not, but media members don't see people who preach about doing the right thing, and write books about how important character is, and how you should always strive to improve yourself as people who are doing society a service. They view them as arrogant and flawed, and then wait for an opportunity to make sure everyone knows they're hypocrites.
  
  They (the media) don't give a damn if the person in question has lived an exemplary life for decades, given back thousands of times over, and generally been a model citizen. If they find just one flaw, it confirms what they've felt all along -- that this person was an arrogant hypocrite who needed to be brought down.
  
  This is what we're seeing now with Tressel. Where I might be more inclined to give him a second chance because of a strong record of good deeds for the past 20 or more years, the media has zero tolerance. They want blood, and nothing less than a resignation or a firing will be acceptable.
  
  They didn't get that when the whole Clarett and Troy Smith thing happened -- and it burned at them, I'm sure. If you recall, ABC spent the better part of an Alamo Bowl calling for JT to be fired, along with Andy Geiger, and that was even before the NCAA had finished its investigation; and was based solely on ALLEGATIONS made by Clarett and a few other disgruntled players that were later disproved.
  
  The NCAA won't be revisiting this issue again until August. While there's a lot of sports to be played elsewhere, I don't look for this matter to go away in the media as one might otherwise expect. The blood is in the water and the sharks are circling.
• jhay78

  

  enigmaax;750539 wrote:I don't ever remember seeing the media looking to bring Tressel down before this incident. The perception as it relates to the books is based primarily on the fact that he wrote all of those things then so drastically defied those things. He didn't look as arrogant and self-righteous as long as people thought he really lived what he preached; it isn't that he wrote the books in the first place, it is that he wrote them and provided fodder that makes them seem like a farce.

  
  As Writer stated above, the 2004/Mo Clarett thing is a perfect example. You could tell that there was champagne about to be popped, balloons about to float through the air, and overall giddiness among the ESPN employees.
  

  enigmaax;750549 wrote:I pretty much agree with these guys. Except Rich Rod. For one, self-reporting doesn't make the original act any less wrong. But the point here is that Tressel didn't report it. Even if you want to cut OSU some slack because the administration reported the cover-up, Tressel remains on the hook for not reporting it. Had he given the school the opportunity to self-report when it was originally uncovered, we wouldn't be talking about any of this.

  
  Yeah, you make a good point there. I'm curious to see how the punishment comes out and how it differentiates between coach/program.
• ksig489

  Writerbuckeye;750562 wrote:People need to understand that media members have a different mindset than you or I. Many (most) are of the opinion that they know better than your average Joe what's best for the world. It's an ego and elitism that builds slowly over time, and the higher the reporter is in the world of journalism, the more likely he is to feel this way and express it.
  
  You can believe me or not, but media members don't see people who preach about doing the right thing, and write books about how important character is, and how you should always strive to improve yourself as people who are doing society a service. They view them as arrogant and flawed, and then wait for an opportunity to make sure everyone knows they're hypocrites.
  
  They (the media) don't give a damn if the person in question has lived an exemplary life for decades, given back thousands of times over, and generally been a model citizen. If they find just one flaw, it confirms what they've felt all along -- that this person was an arrogant hypocrite who needed to be brought down.
  
  This is what we're seeing now with Tressel. Where I might be more inclined to give him a second chance because of a strong record of good deeds for the past 20 or more years, the media has zero tolerance. They want blood, and nothing less than a resignation or a firing will be acceptable.
  
  They didn't get that when the whole Clarett and Troy Smith thing happened -- and it burned at them, I'm sure. If you recall, ABC spent the better part of an Alamo Bowl calling for JT to be fired, along with Andy Geiger, and that was even before the NCAA had finished its investigation; and was based solely on ALLEGATIONS made by Clarett and a few other disgruntled players that were later disproved.
  
  The NCAA won't be revisiting this issue again until August. While there's a lot of sports to be played elsewhere, I don't look for this matter to go away in the media as one might otherwise expect. The blood is in the water and the sharks are circling.

  
  If they have written about him before, it is because he gave them a reason. YSU, Clarett, Smith, now the Tat5...none of these things were written about for no reason. All had legitimacy.
  
  If he doesn't want to be called a hypocrite...then don't be one. Don't preach about the right way to live and act, then do the opposite. That is pretty much the definition of a hypocrite.
• bases_loaded

  

  Now we know what it'll be like if tebow fucks before marriage
• enigmaax

  Writerbuckeye;750562 wrote: They view them as arrogant and flawed, and then wait for an opportunity to make sure everyone knows they're hypocrites.
  
  They don't give a damn if the person in question has lived an exemplary life for decades, given back thousands of times over, and generally been a model citizen. If they find just one flaw, it confirms what they've felt all along -- that this person was an arrogant hypocrite who needed to be brought down.

  
  I agree with your premise, I just don't agree that 1) the mindset is limited to the media or 2) Tressel is being treated any differently.
  
  There are many types of oversaturation that drive both media and "regular" people to wait for that moment of shame (another post mentioned Tim Tebow - stop and think for a moment about the past expressions from non-Florida fans regarding Tebow on this board alone) because it'd make us all feel a little better to know someone who has it all isn't perfect.
  
  Tressel goofed and so he's getting the treatment. You've brought up the Alamo Bowl before and at that time, yeah, it was the same situation. People thought he goofed so he got the treatment. That is what happens when you put yourself on a pedestal (which Tressel did with the books, whether that was the intent or not). One minor detail in this situation is that it isn't just the media and non-OSU fans who are all over Tressel for this. He's lost a lot of support from OSU fans, as well, which is quite telling as to how serious those folks took his image and his word.
  
  But hey, whatever happens, you know what the media loves better than a self-destruction story? A comeback story. Give him a few years and he'll be back on top writing books about redemption.
• FatHobbit

  

  karen lotz;750507 wrote:Lying to the NCAA about violations and playing ineligible players? Do you really have to ask that question?

  WebFire;750509 wrote:Considering the possible punishment I would say yes.

  
  It probably is a big deal to the NCAA and there is no money left to be made (bowl games) so they'll be out for blood. I just don't think selling stuff you have been given is that big of a deal. And if Tressel wanted to handle that in house I'm fine with that too.
  

  ksig489;750540 wrote:You are mistaking what the players did for what the coach did. But even then, the players broke a major rule as well. They essentially used gifts from the university as a way to make money (which is why some people are saying that they were being "paid" by OSU...I dont agree with that logic, but I can see how some people do. The university gave them awards under the idea that they would not sell them).

  They broke rules and he broke rules, but I don't think he deserves to be fired over it.
• WebFire

  enigmaax;750549 wrote:I pretty much agree with these guys. Except Rich Rod. For one, self-reporting doesn't make the original act any less wrong. But the point here is that Tressel didn't report it. Even if you want to cut OSU some slack because the administration reported the cover-up, Tressel remains on the hook for not reporting it. Had he given the school the opportunity to self-report when it was originally uncovered, we wouldn't be talking about any of this.

  
  I agree that self-reporting should have no bearing on anything. To me, being the school with the most self-reports can be a negative thing. But I don't believe RRod made any comment about self-reporting violations. If he did, this is the first I've seen of it. His major point was that there are major issues going on that are not looked at, while the NCAA seems to be going after the lesser violating schools.
• zach24oz

  http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=6425516
• karen lotz

  

  Hobbit, Tressel is not in this situation because the players sold stuff that was given to them. If you want to debate that, pull up one of the 20 threads that discussed that. Tressel is in hot water because he lied to the NCAA and played ineligible players. This shouldn't be a difficult thing to understand.
• FatHobbit

  

  karen lotz;750668 wrote:Hobbit, Tressel is not in this situation because the players sold stuff that was given to them. If you want to debate that, pull up one of the 20 threads that discussed that. Tressel is in hot water because he lied to the NCAA and played ineligible players. This shouldn't be a difficult thing to understand.

  
  I agree that Tressel is the one responsible for his decisions. And he is not the saint everyone wanted him to be. But the NCAA has a bunch of stupid rules and they only care about making money. There should be a penalty. I just hope they don't fire Tressel because of all of this.
• vball10set

  karen lotz;750668 wrote:Tressel is in hot water because he lied to the NCAA.

  
  PERIOD
• sman

  Tressel lied...he should be punished. The ncaa is a joke....just saw that the fiesta bowl is being investigated by the people who did the stuff that got them in trouble!!! The ncaa appointed the guilty people to investigate themselves!!! This is what frustrates alot of people about the ncaa. The ncaa is a dictatorship....they answer to noone!!
• enigmaax

  sman;750701 wrote:The ncaa is a joke....just saw that the fiesta bowl is being investigated by the people who did the stuff that got them in trouble!!!

  
  Well, that isn't really true but the whole situation isn't going to help the NCAA's credibility. But as you also mention, they answer to no one so it doesn't really matter.
• stlouiedipalma

  Writerbuckeye;750419 wrote:As many of you know, PR and communications are strong in my professional background.
  
  That's why I'll be very surprised if Tressel doesn't resign.
  
  Why?
  
  Because the media is head-hunting and they aren't going to be happy until he's gone.
  
  Tressel became a target of the media very early on because of two things: (1) he's not very open about his team, practices, etc., and he's very good at dodging questions he doesn't want to answer. They hate that. Also (2) he has written several books about character, doing the right thing, etc., which are all admirable goals. The media doesn't see it that way, however, and think of him as being arrogant and self-righteous.
  
  They've wanted to bring him down for some time -- and he not only opened the door, he blew the damn thing off its hinges.
  
  With blood now in the water, they won't be happy until he gets axed or steps aside, and you'll continue to see the nasty columns that have been dominating since this all came about.
  
  Think about it: have you seen this many columns calling for a college football coach's head EVER in the past 5 years or more? I can't recall any.
  
  Even when USC was facing FAR more egregious violations in both its basketball and football programs, you didn't see the constant string of columns and radio hosts calling for Petey to be fired. Of course, when most of that was FINALLY put into a letter to USC, he was already packing his bags to flee to Seattle.
  
  We now know that the earliest anything will happen with the NCAA is August, and it likely won't even be for a few months after that, depending on possible appeals.
  
  I don't see OSU's bigwigs...the big money folks who pull most of the strings behind the scenes...putting up with a constant onslaught of bad PR between now and then. And it WILL continue, because these guys want Tressel GONE and they won't be happy until he is. As such, I see him finally being pressured into resigning to prevent continued damage to the school's reputation.
  
  Right or wrong (I think he's being unfairly targeted) I think his career at OSU is going to end sometime this year.

  
  Writer, this might be the best analysis of the whole OSU/ESPN thing I have ever seen. You are spot-on with this one.
• Tobias Fünke

  

  SportsAndLady;750441 wrote:Why does one man's errors mean he should be fired? Slap him on the wrist, and get back to business. There's simply no benefit to firing him, other than to please some of the old-timer fans who think that OSU being caught for violations is a sin punishable by death. AKA, the people who can't recognize the change in college football and what it has now become.

  
  Are you fucking kidding me?
  
  Just because some, or even most, in college football are dirty doesn't make it right or that is should go unpunished.
  
  Jim Tressel intentionally lied and misled to the NCAA, slapping him on the wrist would only encourage such practices. That is the point of law. You break X rule, Y is what happens. If you don't self-report illegal actions when you first become cognizant (when he was emailed about tattoo-gate), then you blatantly lie to investigators (telling them he didn't know in December), then lie again (saying he was "scared" so he didn't tell anyone), then have the school act like dipshits trying to make it go away (the two-week---errr, I mean five-week suspension)...YOU LOSE YOUR JOB.
• sportswizuhrd

  Sports by brooks says there are A LOT of unanswered questions (equipment given to Rife that is unaccounted for, etc.) after the NOA lists a "Player G". Eventually they are going to be answered.
  
  http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/the-tressel-die-is-cast-but-what-o-the-program-29656
• johngrizzly

  ^^^^^^
  
  Does the guy who put that above report out not have a life? Just sit around and look how to burn OSU football.
• SportsAndLady

  

  Tobias Fünke;750765 wrote:Are you fucking kidding me?
  
  Just because some, or even most, in college football are dirty doesn't make it right or that is should go unpunished.
  
  Jim Tressel intentionally lied and misled to the NCAA, slapping him on the wrist would only encourage such practices. That is the point of law. You break X rule, Y is what happens. If you don't self-report illegal actions when you first become cognizant (when he was emailed about tattoo-gate), then you blatantly lie to investigators (telling them he didn't know in December), then lie again (saying he was "scared" so he didn't tell anyone), then have the school act like dipshits trying to make it go away (the two-week---errr, I mean five-week suspension)...YOU LOSE YOUR JOB.

  
  A) I never said OSU should go unpunished...I said Tressel should not be fired. Please try to keep up with the conversation, as you are several pages too late (there have been multiple posts already about what you just typed out..although theirs had correct information)
  
  B) After your school had a kid die on their behalf, I don't think ND fans should be throwing stones at the moment.
• karen lotz

  

  SportsAndLady;750828 wrote:A) I never said OSU should go unpunished...I said Tressel should not be fired. Please try to keep up with the conversation, as you are several pages too late (there have been multiple posts already about what you just typed out..although theirs had correct information)
  
  B) After your school had a kid die on their behalf, I don't think ND fans should be throwing stones at the moment.

  
  Had a kid die on their behalf? Jump over to the thread on ND/Sullivan and explain that please.
• LJ

  

  sportswizuhrd;750807 wrote:Sports by brooks says there are A LOT of unanswered questions (equipment given to Rife that is unaccounted for, etc.) after the NOA lists a "Player G". Eventually they are going to be answered.
  
  http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/the-tressel-die-is-cast-but-what-o-the-program-29656

  
  Brooks is a hack. Most of the "facts" in that article are nothing but assumptions by him.