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Should ND coach Brian Kelly step down?

  • LJ
    sherm03;714598 wrote:I think this is where the thinking that Kelly is responsible and needs to be fired is a little off. The direct cause of Declan Sullivan's death was high winds that knocked over the scissor lift. Now you can argue that Kelly was the INDIRECT cause of his death because he decided to have practice outside that day. But the only way that Brian Kelly could be the direct cause of the death would be if he was standing at the bottom of the lift and shaking it until it fell over.

    I think there are a lot of people that can be blamed for the INDIRECT causing of a person's death. Should all of those people be forced to resign or get the ax? As Tobias said, if Declan's family said that would help them bring closure, then I might reconsider my stance. But based on what I've read, I feel that there is not one specific person responsible for Declan's death, and therefore...I don't think anyone should be fired or step down.

    OSHA ruled that Notre Dame not telling him to get down was directly responsible for his death. You can THINK whatever you want, but a regulatory authority has ruled otherwise.

    And the kid's boss is the one who is responsible. Why is that so hard to understand?
  • karen lotz
    LJ;714607 wrote:OSHA ruled that Notre Dame not telling him to get down was directly responsible for his death. You can THINK whatever you want, but a regulatory authority has ruled otherwise.

    And the kid's boss is the one who is responsible. Why is that so hard to understand?

    Ok then Notre Dame should be fired or step down.
  • LJ
    karen lotz;714614 wrote:Ok then Notre Dame should be fired or step down.


    So he didn't have a direct boss? He just worked for "Notre Dame"?

    Once again (not sure why this has to be explained over and over) OSHA does not, will not, and cannot investigate individuals.
  • sherm03
    LJ;714607 wrote:OSHA ruled that Notre Dame not telling him to get down was directly responsible for his death. You can THINK whatever you want, but a regulatory authority has ruled otherwise.

    And the kid's boss is the one who is responsible. Why is that so hard to understand?

    It's not that hard to understand. Why is it so hard for you to understand that Kelly is not the kid's boss?
  • LJ
    sherm03;714618 wrote:It's not that hard to understand. Why is it so hard for you to understand that Kelly is not the kid's boss?

    Where did I ever say he was?
  • rock_knutne
    LJ;714621 wrote:Where did I ever say he was?
    Then shut the fuck up!
  • LJ
    rock_knutne;714624 wrote:Then shut the fuck up!

    Lets see

    Rock not only has decided that he is going to play moderator by deciding what posts get infractions, he is also now the forum God that decides who can and can't discuss a situation. Good to know.
  • sherm03
    LJ;714621 wrote:Where did I ever say he was?

    So you want someone...who is not the direct supervisor of the student...to be fired or resign because of the situation? Now it is hard to understand.
  • rock_knutne
    LJ;714627 wrote:Lets see

    Rock not only has decided that he is going to play moderator by deciding what posts get infractions, he is also now the forum God that decides who can and can't discuss a situation. Good to know.

    Not playing moderator wise ass, just pointing out the obvious earlier in this thread that a moderator (YOU) starts the name calling. Again, just shut up, your argument is ridiculous and you lost every shred of credibility you had when you compared this ACCIDENT to seeking justice in the Jon Benet Ramsey case.......and you call me and others fucking morons? The irony is side splitting!
  • LJ
    sherm03;714629 wrote:So you want someone...who is not the direct supervisor of the student...to be fired or resign because of the situation? Now it is hard to understand.
    Its been said multiple times that kelly was not in charge of the video crew
  • LJ
    rock_knutne;714633 wrote:Not playing moderator wise ass, just pointing out the obvious earlier in this thread that a moderator (YOU) starts the name calling. Again, just shut up, your argument is ridiculous and you lost every shred of credibility you had when you compared this ACCIDENT to seeking justice in the Jon Benet Ramsey case.......and you call me and others fucking morons? The irony is side splitting!
    You got me good fucker! :rolleyes:
  • ytownfootball
    So what if Kelly was named in a civil case (this is where public opinion might find culpability)?
  • bigkahuna
    Like someone else said, OSHA did all they could do.

    Until more investigation is done to place blame on someone, OR the case is completely closed, how can you be outraged about wanting justice?

    Justice has yet to be served in the case. If anything, the justice appetizer has been served.

    I personally do not think that Kelly should be fired for this because like others have said, he isn't the film crew's supervisor.
    The head of the AV department (or w/e) should have some responsibility with this case, but how long in between assignment given and practice time elapsed?
    If he met with the head of the department at 8am and practice was at 3pm, weather could have drastically changed over the course of the day.
    Did he try and get in contact with him during the course of the day as weather got worse?
  • bigkahuna
    Gblock;714093 wrote:so if it is thunder and lightning and the coach keeps practicing and someone gets struck and killed by your logic its just an accident?...foot ball is dangerous by definition. the osu kid was hurt on the field during a play...not an apples to apples comparison imo

    This is entirely different because State/Athletic Governing bodies have rules set in place in regards to lightening like that. I.e.- you see lightening, you must stop practice and seek indoor shelter for 30 straight minutes after the last sign of lightening. As a former player/coach, you should know that.

    If there is some kind of safety guideline regarding high winds, and they were ignored, then it wouldn't be an accident.
  • LJ
    bigkahuna;714650 wrote:This is entirely different because State/Athletic Governing bodies have rules set in place in regards to lightening like that. I.e.- you see lightening, you must stop practice and seek indoor shelter for 30 straight minutes after the last sign of lightening. As a former player/coach, you should know that.

    If there is some kind of safety guideline regarding high winds, and they were ignored, then it wouldn't be an accident.

    There are indeed laws on windspeed and use of a scissor lift
  • bigkahuna
    LJ;714125 wrote:OSHA DOES NOT INVESTIGATE INDIVIDUALS YOU FUCKING MORON!!!!!
    These rules apply to ALL forums:
    No personal attacks or unwarranted name-calling. Just because someone has a different opinion doesn't mean they're an idiot

    This is for you LJ. You should know these rules being a mod and all.
  • LJ
    bigkahuna;714653 wrote:These rules apply to ALL forums:
    No personal attacks or unwarranted name-calling. Just because someone has a different opinion doesn't mean they're an idiot

    This is for you LJ. You should know these rules being a mod and all.

    Wasnt unwarranted. Thanks for playing mod tho
  • bigkahuna
    LJ;714651 wrote:There are indeed laws on windspeed and use of a scissor lift

    Like I said, I'd be curious to know the times of the following

    1. Assignment to go to the lift
    2. Weather Advisory issued
    3. Start of practice

    Also, contact between the AV director and the crews.
  • bigkahuna
    LJ;714654 wrote:Wasnt unwarranted. Thanks for playing mod tho

    How was it not?

    Not playing mod, just pointing out when a mod breaks the rules he supposed to be enforcing.

    Nice abuse of power though.
  • LJ
    bigkahuna;714659 wrote:How was it not?

    Not playing mod, just pointing out when a mod breaks the rules he supposed to be enforcing.

    Nice abuse of power though.
    When someone refuses to listen to fact, how are they not being a moron?

    And abuse of power? What power? Lol
  • bigkahuna
    rock_knutne;714121 wrote:Like I said, go up there and find out who's responsible, since OSHA won't tell us.:rolleyes:
    LJ;714125 wrote:OSHA DOES NOT INVESTIGATE INDIVIDUALS YOU FUCKING MORON!!!!!

    He's saying OSHA won't release individual information. Do you know for a fact that he is saying that because he doesn't know that OSHA doesn't do that? I look at it as he is saying that OSHA won't/can't tell us, so you do it.

    That is his opinion and you personally attacking him and calling him names.
  • LJ
    bigkahuna;714664 wrote:He's saying OSHA won't release individual information. Do you know for a fact that he is saying that because he doesn't know that OSHA doesn't do that? I look at it as he is saying that OSHA won't/can't tell us, so you do it.

    That is his opinion and you personally attacking him and calling him names.
    I know for a FACT that osha does not will not and cannot investigate individuals. Period. Apparently you cant understand either
  • bigkahuna
    rock_knutne;714121 wrote:Like I said, go up there and find out who's responsible, since OSHA won't tell us.:rolleyes:
    LJ;714660 wrote:When someone refuses to listen to fact, how are they not being a moron?

    And abuse of power? What power? Lol

    Being able to say w/e you want and not getting an infraction point or w/e like sleeper, Capone, Modell, CoA would get for doing the same.
  • LJ
    bigkahuna;714669 wrote:Being able to say w/e you want and not getting an infraction point or w/e like sleeper, Capone, Modell, CoA would get for doing the same.

    They wouldnt get an infraction either. Quit trying to play moderator
  • bigkahuna
    LJ;714668 wrote:I know for a FACT that osha does not will not and cannot investigate individuals. Period. Apparently you cant understand either

    Can you not read?

    I asked if you knew for a fact or not if HE knew that. When he says won't, is he saying won't because they can't?