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Homosexuality vs. religion

  • CenterBHSFan
    Series62 wrote:
    SQ_Crazies wrote:
    There is nothing about either book that warrants it being called the truth--that is to be interpreted by everyone.

    But thanks Series, you've been a good sport. Over the course of this time I think I've accomplished the goal of getting you to prove my point with plenty of examples.
    The only goal accomplished and point proven is that you don't except Christianity. For all those who hold to that ideology, I'm well aware that this conversation would do nothing to alter that belief.
    QFT

    If a person enters a dialogue with a willingly closed mind, the dialogue itself will not change anything.
  • SQ_Crazies
    I love the Bible. It's a great book of guidance and history. Just because it was hijacked as a religious basis doesn't mean it was intended for that.
  • Series62
    SQ_Crazies wrote: Well, if they're as bat shit crazy as you, count me out of that group and I'm not really worried about what they think of me either. LOL, no offense, I don't mean to be a dick in saying that--I like you, we had a good discussion on this topic--I just think you're nuts! ;)
    SQ, I'm not ashamed of the God I serve, I cannot allow myself to be easily offended, I'm not afraid to speak His word, and I am and will continue to be crazy for Jesus Christ!

    Bless you man, I got to go!
  • CenterBHSFan
    SQ_Crazies wrote: I love the Bible. It's a great book of guidance and history. Just because it was hijacked as a religious basis doesn't mean it was intended for that.

    What was it intended for then?
  • SQ_Crazies
    CenterBHSFan wrote:
    Series62 wrote:
    SQ_Crazies wrote:
    There is nothing about either book that warrants it being called the truth--that is to be interpreted by everyone.

    But thanks Series, you've been a good sport. Over the course of this time I think I've accomplished the goal of getting you to prove my point with plenty of examples.
    The only goal accomplished and point proven is that you don't except Christianity. For all those who hold to that ideology, I'm well aware that this conversation would do nothing to alter that belief.
    QFT

    If a person enters a dialogue with a willingly closed mind, the dialogue itself will not change anything.
    True, but other open minded people out there (aside from myself) may come away with this with any number of different opinions.
  • CenterBHSFan
    Fair enough SQ!
  • SQ_Crazies
    CenterBHSFan wrote:
    SQ_Crazies wrote: I love the Bible. It's a great book of guidance and history. Just because it was hijacked as a religious basis doesn't mean it was intended for that.

    What was it intended for then?
    Could have been any number of things--notice how I didn't leave religion out, but most of all it's a book of history and guidance. Guidance doesn't not equate to religious interpretation and preaching.
  • SQ_Crazies
    CenterBHSFan wrote: Fair enough SQ!
    Yeah, well I certainly don't hope you think that I have a closed mind...
  • Con_Alma
    Series62 wrote:
    Con_Alma wrote: Gottcha.

    Not Only can people find their own truth it's the only way people with find truth. We learn most effectively by experiencing and observing....not being preached to.

    It's been my experience that people come to know Christ more commonly by investing in their own search for truth and by watching others around them than by people spoon feeding them information.

    "Preach the Gospel at all times....when necessary use words."
    I hear you!

    But, on a blog what can you do but use words! I did "spoon feed" them from the best plate possible, The "Good Book"!
    How you choose to approach someone is your decision based on what you feel is right and appropriate.


    If you choose to use the "Good Book" it doesn't mean that someone is going to respond in a positive. way.

    If I remember correctly you are to provide the opportunity for them to choose their path. Nothing more.
  • jmog
    SQ_Crazies wrote:

    Oh, ok, he spoke us to life. That makes more sense.
    Actually, as detailed in the other thread under politics already discussing origins, a supreme being speaking things into existence makes just as much sense (or more) than some of the abiogenesis theories of how the first life started.
  • jmog
    SQ_Crazies wrote:
    God is a God of love, patience, grace, mercy and forgiveness. But woe unto those who knowingly wrongfully minister His word!
    Ok...

    First of all, you aren't a sinner?

    And to the last part of your post, which I bolded, how do you explain this:


    [/quote]

    I'm skipping most of the bull crap being spewed back and forth, but I had to answer this.

    A disastrous calamity like 9/11 doesn't refute the idea of a loving God. If you believe the Bible you also know God gave humans free will. Even if you are a great person, a Christian, etc that doesn't mean that a loving God would stop an armed robber from killing you to get your stuff.

    Bad things happen in this world and even a loving God doesn't step in and stop every bad thing from happening, like 9/11.

    Your following bad logic to use 9/11 as evidence against a loving God. You should really try again.
  • SQ_Crazies
    Well it's too bad we can't ask one of the victims of 9/11 how loving God is.

    Series, have you ever studied the Koran?
  • onedawgpain
    FairwoodKing wrote:
    fan_from_texas wrote:
    FairwoodKing wrote: I think the Catholic Church is the biggest hate group in the world. They claim to love everyone, but their actions surely prove just the opposite.
    I'm a little unclear on this. Is it possible to love someone and disapprove of actions they take? Is it possible to love someone and treat them harshly? Is it possible to be full of love and yet adopt stances that others find repugnant?

    Regardless of whether homosexuality is kosher or not, it seems to me that an organization sticking by a belief it has sincerely held for thousands of years--rather than dropping it at the whim of cultural fashion--isn't indicative of hate.
    You're right-- the Catholic Church hasn't changed in two thousand years. But the world has. It is about time for Catholics to catch up.

    Gay rights isn't a whim of cultural fashion. It is a matter of us gay people demanding our human rights.

    I'm an atheist. I don't accept what the Catholics or Baptists or Mormons say. So why should they have the right to dictate what kind of life I can lead?
    It's not just a Catholic thing.....read the Bible. Not you, since you're a proclaimed Atheist. And what are supposed to "catch up" on?
    By the way, God will not interfere what man is doing.....
  • Con_Alma
    I am not Catholic nor have I ever been but one of the things that I most appreciate about the Catholic Church is that they are to willing to change their interpretations simply for the desires and pressure of modern culture....at least I think they aren't.
  • jmog
    SQ_Crazies wrote: Well it's too bad we can't ask one of the victims of 9/11 how loving God is.

    Series, have you ever studied the Koran?
    1. You do know your 1st sentence there makes you look as "crazy" as the far right wing Christian nut jobs who hold signs that say "God hates homosexuals" right?

    2. I've read through the whole Koran, interesting read for sure. I've also read the Book of Mormon, many of the gnostic gospels, and anything else I can get my hand in. Most of them just strengthen and broaden my belief system.
  • SQ_Crazies
    Um...wasn't asking you.

    And no, my first sentence doesn't make me look like that at all. And I wouldn't call myself a nut job, but I'm pretty far into the right wing.
  • buckeyefalls
    FairwoodKing wrote:
    fan_from_texas wrote:
    FairwoodKing wrote: I think the Catholic Church is the biggest hate group in the world. They claim to love everyone, but their actions surely prove just the opposite.
    I'm a little unclear on this. Is it possible to love someone and disapprove of actions they take? Is it possible to love someone and treat them harshly? Is it possible to be full of love and yet adopt stances that others find repugnant?

    Regardless of whether homosexuality is kosher or not, it seems to me that an organization sticking by a belief it has sincerely held for thousands of years--rather than dropping it at the whim of cultural fashion--isn't indicative of hate.
    You're right-- the Catholic Church hasn't changed in two thousand years. But the world has. It is about time for Catholics to catch up.

    Gay rights isn't a whim of cultural fashion. It is a matter of us gay people demanding our human rights.

    I'm an atheist. I don't accept what the Catholics or Baptists or Mormons say. So why should they have the right to dictate what kind of life I can lead?
    I haven't read through all of the comments yet, but I can tell you the world has changed, but not as far as homo-sexuality goes. Read Scriptures. They deal with homo-sexuality, etc. back then as well.
  • buckeyefalls
    FairwoodKing wrote:
    majorspark wrote:
    FairwoodKing wrote: These religious organizations are responsible for passing laws that hurt people like me. Just a few months ago in California, the voters turned down a gay rights referendum largely becacuse the Mormon Church campaigned so strongly against it.

    Fortunately for me, here in the State of Washington, sexual orientation is a protected class. True, we still don't have gay marriage, but we have everything except calling it that. If I had a lover, we would have almost all of the rights of a married couple, including the right to adopt children. It makes a big difference.

    I'll bet you $50 on it.

    1. If you are white, I dare you to turn black? Can't do it. No human way possible. You can't even do it for a day.

    2. If you are gay, you can have a straight relationship. You may not like it but you can do it.

    I hate the "born that way" excuse. Blacks are "born that way" not "homo-sexuals." Now, they may have genes/traits that trigger them liking the same sex, but these do not dictate that they can't choose the "other way."

    Example: I may have genetics that would make me an alcoholic due to my ancestors. However, I can "choose" not to act on my "feelings" and do what I know is right or don't do anything at all.
    Then be thankful you have a place to live as you wish in this country instead of trying to force your beliefs on the whole nation. We can't all agree on everything.
    If I replaced the word "gay" with "black", would you still think I was trying to force my beliefs on everyone? I have no more choice in being gay than African Americans have in being black. We are only looking for human rights for everybody.
  • buckeyefalls
    enigmaax wrote: The thing that always gets me about these "beliefs" is that homosexuality is no more of a sin than any other sin. Is it unforgivable? Do they refuse to have children with divorced parents or parents who commited adultery or single parents who have sex with people? Are these "not as bad" as homosexual parents?
    Here is a statement I support 110% If the catholic church views homo-sexuality as sin (and I do support that), then is it any different from any other "sin?"

    For example, if both parents are drunks, do they keep the student out? No. Not at all. I know because I know a few families who are like that.
  • buckeyefalls
    FairwoodKing wrote:
    september63 wrote: IF you had started with that post this debate would have ended before it started. You were beating around the bush and FINALLY posted what you wanted to post from the beginning.
    I will clarify:

    I want laws changed that will enable two gay men or two lesbians to legally marry and to enjoy all the rights and privileges of marriage.

    I want anti-discrimination laws passed that will prevent gays and lesbians from being fired from their jobs or being evicted from their homes because of their sexual orientation.

    I want all states to prosecute attacks on gays as hate crimes with severe punishments for the attackers.


    Christian churches are preventing these things from happening. If it were not for Christian theology, gays would have proper protections in this country.
    Maybe our founding fathers knew how to keep order and live morally? Just a thought?

    A gay person should be protected; however, that doesn't mean they should have rights to "marry." If they want to "unite" great, but "marriage" is a Christian term and organized by Christianity, not government.

    See, you want gays to have the right to "marry" but fail to see that the tradition of a wedding comes from Christianity. How ironic is that.
  • SQ_Crazies
    Under God, who's right is it to tell a gay person what their rights should/shouldn't be.
  • Con_Alma
    buckeyefalls wrote:
    enigmaax wrote: The thing that always gets me about these "beliefs" is that homosexuality is no more of a sin than any other sin. Is it unforgivable? Do they refuse to have children with divorced parents or parents who commited adultery or single parents who have sex with people? Are these "not as bad" as homosexual parents?
    Here is a statement I support 110% If the catholic church views homo-sexuality as sin (and I do support that), then is it any different from any other "sin?"

    For example, if both parents are drunks, do they keep the student out? No. Not at all. I know because I know a few families who are like that.

    All sin, any sin is as bad as all/any other.
  • WeAreNC
    So. What you are trying to say is. AIDS is Gods way of saying he hates Gays?
  • FairwoodKing
    buckeyefalls wrote:
    FairwoodKing wrote:
    september63 wrote: IF you had started with that post this debate would have ended before it started. You were beating around the bush and FINALLY posted what you wanted to post from the beginning.
    I will clarify:

    I want laws changed that will enable two gay men or two lesbians to legally marry and to enjoy all the rights and privileges of marriage.

    I want anti-discrimination laws passed that will prevent gays and lesbians from being fired from their jobs or being evicted from their homes because of their sexual orientation.

    I want all states to prosecute attacks on gays as hate crimes with severe punishments for the attackers.


    Christian churches are preventing these things from happening. If it were not for Christian theology, gays would have proper protections in this country.
    Maybe our founding fathers knew how to keep order and live morally? Just a thought?

    A gay person should be protected; however, that doesn't mean they should have rights to "marry." If they want to "unite" great, but "marriage" is a Christian term and organized by Christianity, not government.

    See, you want gays to have the right to "marry" but fail to see that the tradition of a wedding comes from Christianity. How ironic is that.
    Marriage started off as a religious ceremony, but in today's world, it is a legal term. There are something like 187 rights that married people have under law that single people (or gay couples) do not have. They involve taxes, inheritance, and all sorts of things.

    An example: I once had a gay friend who had a lover. The lover was in a serious auto accident and was in the hospital comitose. The family refused to let my friend see his lover. I should also point out that the family had practically disowned the lover for being gay. The lover spent many months in the hospital and finally died. During this whole process, my friend was never allowed in to see the lover. If they had had the legal rights of marriage, my friend could have gotten a court order if necessary to allow himself to see his lover. This is the kind of bullshit we're fighting against.
  • FairwoodKing
    As far as Series62 is concerned, he lost all credibility when he insisted that homosexuality is a choice. This is a typical Christian attitude and it sucks. If sexuality is a choice, then when did any of you chose to be straight? You didn't chose. It is just something that happened. For us, being gay is just something that happens. It doesn't matter what the Bible says, being gay is as natural for me as being straight is for you.