Homosexuality vs. religion

• Be Nice

  What a "tootie fruity" thread. lol
• WeArNc

  justincredible wrote:

  WeAreNC wrote: Don't hate. Appreciate!

  Seems like all the hate is coming from you (and your bro).

  I don't think guys should suck cock or take it in the ass unless it's from their brother. All you unrelated ass fuckers are gross!
• enigmaax

  FairwoodKing wrote: When I was a young man, I was a devout Christian. I was also miserable. I was a total closet case and I kept trying to be straight. When I turned 30, I accepted what I was and did something about it. The first crack in my religion was when I finally understood that the Bible was completely wrong about me. I had no choice in what I was. I was just as gay when I was in the closet in my 20's as I was as a sexually active man in my 30's. At no point did I ever chose to be gay.

  Yes, you did make the choice. You gave into temptation. The thing is, it is no different than the temptations to which heterosexuals give in. You apparently see dudes you like and you have sex with them. I see chics I like and have sex with them. According to what you believed previously, we are both equally living in sin and neither is worse than the other.
  
  It seems to me that you are saying you turned against God because what you believed in Him didn't jive with your ability to resist temptation. And now you make excuses for yourself so you can feel as though you aren't wrong. I don't know that it is necessary. Every one of us is guilty of sin and just like you, my choices to act upon my sexual desires are just that - my choices.
  
  You can believe and still not be perfect.
• FairwoodKing

  enigmaax wrote:

  FairwoodKing wrote: When I was a young man, I was a devout Christian. I was also miserable. I was a total closet case and I kept trying to be straight. When I turned 30, I accepted what I was and did something about it. The first crack in my religion was when I finally understood that the Bible was completely wrong about me. I had no choice in what I was. I was just as gay when I was in the closet in my 20's as I was as a sexually active man in my 30's. At no point did I ever chose to be gay.

  Yes, you did make the choice. You gave into temptation. The thing is, it is no different than the temptations to which heterosexuals give in. You apparently see dudes you like and you have sex with them. I see chics I like and have sex with them. According to what you believed previously, we are both equally living in sin and neither is worse than the other.
  
  It seems to me that you are saying you turned against God because what you believed in Him didn't jive with your ability to resist temptation. And now you make excuses for yourself so you can feel as though you aren't wrong. I don't know that it is necessary. Every one of us is guilty of sin and just like you, my choices to act upon my sexual desires are just that - my choices.
  
  You can believe and still not be perfect.

  I'm not making excuses because I'm not wrong. The Bible is wrong. It says things that blatantly are not true. I'm just glad that I finally had the guts to come out of the closet and enjoy men.
• dwccrew

  

  WeAreNC wrote: No dwccrew. I don't speak gay and just needed a translator. In the future I will just ask you to translate for us.

  Not sure I understand how you needed a translator. You were asking questions pertaining to the world of gay sex because you are curious. As you stated in one of your posts, denial is the first phase. Your sexual ambiguity permeates through the screen....do you need a translator, I know some of these words may be too big for you to comprehend.
  

  WeAreNC wrote: yes they do. From Blood transfusions, dirty needles. but not from taking it up the ass..

  That's the only way straight people get AIDS, huh?
  

  enigmaax wrote:

  FairwoodKing wrote: When I was a young man, I was a devout Christian. I was also miserable. I was a total closet case and I kept trying to be straight. When I turned 30, I accepted what I was and did something about it. The first crack in my religion was when I finally understood that the Bible was completely wrong about me. I had no choice in what I was. I was just as gay when I was in the closet in my 20's as I was as a sexually active man in my 30's. At no point did I ever chose to be gay.

  Yes, you did make the choice. You gave into temptation. The thing is, it is no different than the temptations to which heterosexuals give in. You apparently see dudes you like and you have sex with them. I see chics I like and have sex with them. According to what you believed previously, we are both equally living in sin and neither is worse than the other.
  
  It seems to me that you are saying you turned against God because what you believed in Him didn't jive with your ability to resist temptation. And now you make excuses for yourself so you can feel as though you aren't wrong. I don't know that it is necessary. Every one of us is guilty of sin and just like you, my choices to act upon my sexual desires are just that - my choices.
  
  You can believe and still not be perfect.

  Good post.
• FairwoodKing

  On a slightly different subject, there is one thing that even I do not understand about homosexuality. I could never comprehend why there are so many devout gay Christians. Christianity obviously does not want us, so why do so many of us want it? Some of my closest gay friends are Adventists. They follow the Old Testament (as well as New Testament) to the letter-- no pork, no shellfish, and they worship on Saturdays even though they are Christians. Yet they are sexually active gays who seem to have no conflict. I also have some gay Catholic friends who feel they are as religious as the most religious straight people. I have asked my friends about their beliefs, but I have never gotten a good answer. My friends, gay and straight, know I'm an atheist and they tend not to share their beliefs with me for fear of offending me, I guess. Or maybe they don't want me to offend them.
  
  Anyone want to take a stab at this?
• DenisonBigRedLax

  because they believe that ultimately God will forgive them and that believing enough will save them come judgement day
  
  not that hard to explain
  
  kind of like the same way a murderer can ask for forgiveness and still believe in God and possibly end up in heaven
• dwccrew

  

  FairwoodKing wrote: On a slightly different subject, there is one thing that even I do not understand about homosexuality. I could never comprehend why there are so many devout gay Christians. Christianity obviously does not want us, so why do so many of us want it? Some of my closest gay friends are Adventists. They follow the Old Testament (as well as New Testament) to the letter-- no pork, no shellfish, and they worship on Saturdays even though they are Christians. Yet they are sexually active gays who seem to have no conflict. I also have some gay Catholic friends who feel they are as religious as the most religious straight people. I have asked my friends about their beliefs, but I have never gotten a good answer. My friends, gay and straight, know I'm an atheist and they tend not to share their beliefs with me for fear of offending me, I guess. Or maybe they don't want me to offend them.
  
  Anyone want to take a stab at this?

  I think enigmaxx answered this question already. The religious gay people know they are sinners. Straight people know they are sinners. In Christian minds, everyone is a sinner in whatever way.
  
  I don't think Christianity doesn't want you, it's certain Christians that don't want you. Don't let someone like that represent the entire Christian population.
• Ghmothwdwhso

  FairwoodKing wrote: On a slightly different subject, there is one thing that even I do not understand about homosexuality. I could never comprehend why there are so many devout gay Christians. Christianity obviously does not want us, so why do so many of us want it? Some of my closest gay friends are Adventists. They follow the Old Testament (as well as New Testament) to the letter-- no pork, no shellfish, and they worship on Saturdays even though they are Christians. Yet they are sexually active gays who seem to have no conflict. I also have some gay Catholic friends who feel they are as religious as the most religious straight people. I have asked my friends about their beliefs, but I have never gotten a good answer. My friends, gay and straight, know I'm an atheist and they tend not to share their beliefs with me for fear of offending me, I guess. Or maybe they don't want me to offend them.
  
  Anyone want to take a stab at this?

  
  I don't want to stab at you, be here's my opinion.......
  
  Yeah man, I have a friend who is in trouble and wants some advice how to get out of it.
  
  I also have a few black friends.
  
  Can you help me?
  
  Just replace friends with "I" in your paragraph, and you will be more believable. Fuck, just kick that closet door down man.
• FairwoodKing

  Ghmothwdwhso wrote:

  FairwoodKing wrote: On a slightly different subject, there is one thing that even I do not understand about homosexuality. I could never comprehend why there are so many devout gay Christians. Christianity obviously does not want us, so why do so many of us want it? Some of my closest gay friends are Adventists. They follow the Old Testament (as well as New Testament) to the letter-- no pork, no shellfish, and they worship on Saturdays even though they are Christians. Yet they are sexually active gays who seem to have no conflict. I also have some gay Catholic friends who feel they are as religious as the most religious straight people. I have asked my friends about their beliefs, but I have never gotten a good answer. My friends, gay and straight, know I'm an atheist and they tend not to share their beliefs with me for fear of offending me, I guess. Or maybe they don't want me to offend them.
  
  Anyone want to take a stab at this?

  
  I don't want to stab at you, be here's my opinion.......
  
  Yeah man, I have a friend who is in trouble and wants some advice how to get out of it.
  
  I also have a few black friends.
  
  Can you help me?
  
  Just replace friends with "I" in your paragraph, and you will be more believable. Fuck, just kick that closet door down man.

  You just gave me the biggest laugh of my day! I have had sex with literally hundreds of men. For twenty years I was the most promiscuous person you could ever meet. And I did it without any guilt.
• NNN

  

  FairwoodKing wrote: You just gave me the biggest laugh of my day! I have had sex with literally hundreds of men. For twenty years I was the most promiscuous person you could ever meet. And I did it without any guilt. I was the rough guy-- my AOL screen name was ButchMaster. As I said, I have nothing to hide.
  
  I hate the Christian faith. I feel it has hurt me, and I don't like it.

  What is that's been said about baseball...something like "It must be a great game to survive the boneheads who run it"?
  
  The fact that there are a very small number of complete idiots who regard homosexuality as some type of super-sin while conveniently overlooking pretty much anything else drives me insane. The fact that there are an even smaller number of idiots who are militant about that means...what exactly? There's an amazing number of idiots in the world, and yet reading half the posts on here reminds me of what Hank Greenberg once said. "If anyone else strikes out, they're a bum. I strike out and I'm a bum Jew."
  
  You know what the difference is between here and most of the world? It's not acceptable in society to promote killing people based on their sexual orientation, and those who espouse such viewpoints are pushed to the fringes of society and hide behind screen names.
  
  And if I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: if gay leaders actually sat down with divorce lawyers and really took a hard look at marriage and divorce laws, they'd be hand-in-hand with the Fred Phelpses of the world and begging not to have the legal curse of marriage unleashed on them.
• FairwoodKing

  And if I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: if gay leaders actually sat down with divorce lawyers and really took a hard look at marriage and divorce laws, they'd be hand-in-hand with the Fred Phelpses of the world and begging not to have the legal curse of marriage unleashed on them.

  It's not quite that simple. The people who want gay marriage have suffered a lot without it. As I said before, there are something like 187 legal rights that married people have that non-married people (gay or straight) don't have. It's a very big problem for a lot of people.
• NNN

  

  FairwoodKing wrote:

  And if I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: if gay leaders actually sat down with divorce lawyers and really took a hard look at marriage and divorce laws, they'd be hand-in-hand with the Fred Phelpses of the world and begging not to have the legal curse of marriage unleashed on them.

  It's not quite that simple. The people who want gay marriage have suffered without it. As I said before, there are something like 187 legal rights that married people have that non-married people (gay or straight) don't have. It's a very big problem for a lot of people.

  I'd be curious to know two things.
  1) What's the entire list, and
  2) Is simply saying "gays can marry as well" really the best solution?
  
  A basic side fact is that pretty much any argument that can be made in favor of gay marriage can also be made in favor of plural marriage. Plural marriage, by the way, existed in some form as a fairly widespread practice from the beginnings of recorded history all the way through around 50 AD. Only in tribal areas or in the Muslim world is it still common.
• SQ_Crazies

  

  I can't believe how easily religion turns off parts of people's brains. Religion is the most fucked up thing this world has going for it and this thread has been proof of that.
• buckeyefalls

  FairwoodKing wrote:

  enigmaax wrote:

  FairwoodKing wrote: When I was a young man, I was a devout Christian. I was also miserable. I was a total closet case and I kept trying to be straight. When I turned 30, I accepted what I was and did something about it. The first crack in my religion was when I finally understood that the Bible was completely wrong about me. I had no choice in what I was. I was just as gay when I was in the closet in my 20's as I was as a sexually active man in my 30's. At no point did I ever chose to be gay.

  Yes, you did make the choice. You gave into temptation. The thing is, it is no different than the temptations to which heterosexuals give in. You apparently see dudes you like and you have sex with them. I see chics I like and have sex with them. According to what you believed previously, we are both equally living in sin and neither is worse than the other.
  
  It seems to me that you are saying you turned against God because what you believed in Him didn't jive with your ability to resist temptation. And now you make excuses for yourself so you can feel as though you aren't wrong. I don't know that it is necessary. Every one of us is guilty of sin and just like you, my choices to act upon my sexual desires are just that - my choices.
  
  You can believe and still not be perfect.

  I'm not making excuses because I'm not wrong. The Bible is wrong. It says things that blatantly are not true. I'm just glad that I finally had the guts to come out of the closet and enjoy men.

  This is what I love. "I'm not wrong, the Bible is wrong." That is why we are in the mess we are in.
  
  Someone on here who knows everything in the world about everything who can say the Bible is wrong. Therefore, you should be God yourself to know that.
  
  If the Bible is so wrong and on so many levels, why is there other historical evidence which supports Christianity? Amazing, I was in Israel just a few years ago and all the things the Bible talks about are there (places, remains, the old temple, etc.) If the Bible is so wrong, then why has it been used to "govern the lives of those trying to live a moral life?"
  
  I've asked this before...what is so wrong with what Scripture teaches? The Bible isn't what is wrong, it's the people who claim to believe it but don't live it.
• buckeyefalls

  FairwoodKing wrote: On a slightly different subject, there is one thing that even I do not understand about homosexuality. I could never comprehend why there are so many devout gay Christians. Christianity obviously does not want us, so why do so many of us want it? Some of my closest gay friends are Adventists. They follow the Old Testament (as well as New Testament) to the letter-- no pork, no shellfish, and they worship on Saturdays even though they are Christians. Yet they are sexually active gays who seem to have no conflict. I also have some gay Catholic friends who feel they are as religious as the most religious straight people. I have asked my friends about their beliefs, but I have never gotten a good answer. My friends, gay and straight, know I'm an atheist and they tend not to share their beliefs with me for fear of offending me, I guess. Or maybe they don't want me to offend them.
  
  Anyone want to take a stab at this?

• buckeyefalls

  Fairwood,
  
  There are many devout Christians who are gay because there are many devout Christians who struggle with other sin. Heck, I have many issues myself and I consider myself a Christian.
  
  You also claim you've had sex with hundreds of men and never felt "guilt." Well, if you didn't feel guilt, then why are many of your posts showing symptoms that you feel like you may be wrong. If you are 100% right that you are not living in sin and that you had no "choice" then why do you need to post here.
  
  You are critical of Christians who state why they believe what they believe but you in turn, tell them that you are right, therefore that must be the end all of the discussion.
  
  I know gay/lesbian ministers for what it is worth. Some have argued they were born that way but the majority have shared that it was their choice and they have the preference to like members of the same sex. However, they recognize that their sin is no worse than the minister who is an alcoholic and trying to serve God, or the minister who struggles with gambling, etc.
• buckeyefalls

  SQ_Crazies wrote: I can't believe how easily religion turns off parts of people's brains. Religion is the most fucked up thing this world has going for it and this thread has been proof of that.

  And I love how discussions of religion bring out the most rude/crued/foul mouthed individuals as well.
  
  If Religion has messed up this world so much, I wonder what the lack of religion has done?????
• cbus4life

  buckeyefalls wrote: Fairwood,
  
  There are many devout Christians who are gay because there are many devout Christians who struggle with other sin. Heck, I have many issues myself and I consider myself a Christian.
  
  You also claim you've had sex with hundreds of men and never felt "guilt." Well, if you didn't feel guilt, then why are many of your posts showing symptoms that you feel like you may be wrong. If you are 100% right that you are not living in sin and that you had no "choice" then why do you need to post here.
  
  You are critical of Christians who state why they believe what they believe but you in turn, tell them that you are right, therefore that must be the end all of the discussion.
  
  I know gay/lesbian ministers for what it is worth. Some have argued they were born that way but the majority have shared that it was their choice and they have the preference to like members of the same sex. However, they recognize that their sin is no worse than the minister who is an alcoholic and trying to serve God, or the minister who struggles with gambling, etc.

  I have had many ministers who don't think it is a sin at all, and the congregation agreed.
• SQ_Crazies

  

  If you don't think that religion has messed up the world then I don't care to talk to you because you're brain washed.
• cbus4life

  buckeyefalls wrote:

  SQ_Crazies wrote: I can't believe how easily religion turns off parts of people's brains. Religion is the most fucked up thing this world has going for it and this thread has been proof of that.

  And I love how discussions of religion bring out the most rude/crued/foul mouthed individuals as well.
  
  If Religion has messed up this world so much, I wonder what the lack of religion has done?????

  Pretty much a wash.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  SQ, I agree that religion for the sake of religion is not necessarily a good thing. But that is as far as it goes.
  For example, I was raised Methodist, but haven't regularly been to church in over a decade, almost two. I still have my faith though (and there's been times when that was questionable), and that's what counts to me.
• buckeyefalls

  So Mother Theresa, who was religious played a big part of messing up the world.
  
  There are religious people who have done great things for our world. Just like there are non-religious folk who have done the same.
  
  You can't blame religion on YOUR problems.
  
  Everyone wants to blame everyone else and won't take responsibility.
  
  I know of congregations/ministers who think homo-sexuality is not a sin as well....but I also know of ministers/congregations who believe things far from Scriptural truth too.
• NNN

  

  SQ_Crazies wrote: If you don't think that religion has messed up the world then I don't care to talk to you because you're brain washed.

  If we were to go strictly by a body count, the two most evil rulers in history were Mao and Stalin; each is believed to have had upward of 50 million of their own people killed.
  
  What religion were they? That's right: militant atheist. Stalin had more people killed in the Ukrainian Autocephalous Church alone than the combined body count of every Christian ruler in history, and he still had another 48 million or more to go in addition to that.
• buckeyefalls

  NNN,
  
  While true, there is truth that Christianity and the Crusades had their fair share of killings as well. That doesn't make it right, but the truth is that men don't always represent Christianity like Christ commanded.
  
  SQ_Crazies is the typical person who wines about how Christians are wrong, suppress others, etc. and when they don't like something you say, they cry and run away.