Homosexuality vs. religion

• FairwoodKing

  I just heard two news stories today that bear discussion.
  
  The first involves Washington, DC, whose city council voted to allow gay marriage starting this Tuesday. The Catholic Charities changed their policy on giving health insurance coverage to spouses of new hires because the city council would not grant them an exemption not to allow coverage for gay spouses.
  
  The second is about a Catholic school in Boulder, CO, who is denying admission to a 5-year-old girl because she has two lesbian mothers.
  
  I think the Catholic Church is the biggest hate group in the world. They claim to love everyone, but their actions surely prove just the opposite.
• fan_from_texas

  FairwoodKing wrote: I think the Catholic Church is the biggest hate group in the world. They claim to love everyone, but their actions surely prove just the opposite.

  I'm a little unclear on this. Is it possible to love someone and disapprove of actions they take? Is it possible to love someone and treat them harshly? Is it possible to be full of love and yet adopt stances that others find repugnant?
  
  Regardless of whether homosexuality is kosher or not, it seems to me that an organization sticking by a belief it has sincerely held for thousands of years--rather than dropping it at the whim of cultural fashion--isn't indicative of hate.
• iclfan2

  

  Hate group? Please. I'm not a big fan of the Catholic church, but homosexuality is against their religion, therefore I see no need for them to pander to gays. They are against it, and they stand up for their beliefs.
• FairwoodKing

  fan_from_texas wrote:

  FairwoodKing wrote: I think the Catholic Church is the biggest hate group in the world. They claim to love everyone, but their actions surely prove just the opposite.

  I'm a little unclear on this. Is it possible to love someone and disapprove of actions they take? Is it possible to love someone and treat them harshly? Is it possible to be full of love and yet adopt stances that others find repugnant?
  
  Regardless of whether homosexuality is kosher or not, it seems to me that an organization sticking by a belief it has sincerely held for thousands of years--rather than dropping it at the whim of cultural fashion--isn't indicative of hate.

  You're right-- the Catholic Church hasn't changed in two thousand years. But the world has. It is about time for Catholics to catch up.
  
  Gay rights isn't a whim of cultural fashion. It is a matter of us gay people demanding our human rights.
  
  I'm an atheist. I don't accept what the Catholics or Baptists or Mormons say. So why should they have the right to dictate what kind of life I can lead?
• DenisonBigRedLax

  if you dont accept what catholics say, then dont try to send your kids to catholic school, simple as that
  
  plenty of other private schools just as good or better than catholic ones
• fan_from_texas

  FairwoodKing wrote: I'm an atheist. I don't accept what the Catholics or Baptists or Mormons say. So why should they have the right to dictate what kind of life I can lead?

  How are they wrongfully dictating what kind of life you can lead? It's certainly their prerogative to run their organization as they see fit, just as it is fine and proper for various gay rights organizations to operate as they see fit. If you don't like what they stand for, don't support them. I don't see what the big deal is.
  
  I'm sure there are plenty of clubs that wouldn't accept me as a member. I guess I can either suck it up, put on my big boy pants, and get over it, or, in the alternative, change who I am so they will accept me. If it's a big enough deal to be accepted, I can change who I am. If it isn't, then I might as well get over it.
  
  In most states, sexual orientation isn't a protected class, IIRC. I think it's unfair to label an organization 'hateful' simply because they disagree with you.
• Strapping Young Lad

  

  So, they deprive a child of a catholic edu b/c the parents are gay. Seems to me if Christianity was the path to salvation they'd want a child (who, BTW, is not the individual who's actions they dissapprove of. That would be the gay parents) to be exposed to their wonderful religion and would want to help instill in the child Christian values. Lord knows that those values are waning in contemporary American society.
  
  Instead they choose the narrow minded, hypocritical way.
  
  Smooth "business" move, Catholicism......
• FairwoodKing

  fan_from_texas wrote:

  FairwoodKing wrote: I'm an atheist. I don't accept what the Catholics or Baptists or Mormons say. So why should they have the right to dictate what kind of life I can lead?

  How are they wrongfully dictating what kind of life you can lead? It's certainly their prerogative to run their organization as they see fit, just as it is fine and proper for various gay rights organizations to operate as they see fit. If you don't like what they stand for, don't support them. I don't see what the big deal is.
  
  I'm sure there are plenty of clubs that wouldn't accept me as a member. I guess I can either suck it up, put on my big boy pants, and get over it, or, in the alternative, change who I am so they will accept me. If it's a big enough deal to be accepted, I can change who I am. If it isn't, then I might as well get over it.
  
  In most states, sexual orientation isn't a protected class, IIRC. I think it's unfair to label an organization 'hateful' simply because they disagree with you.

  These religious organizations are responsible for passing laws that hurt people like me. Just a few months ago in California, the voters turned down a gay rights referendum largely becacuse the Mormon Church campaigned so strongly against it.
  
  Fortunately for me, here in the State of Washington, sexual orientation is a protected class. True, we still don't have gay marriage, but we have everything except calling it that. If I had a lover, we would have almost all of the rights of a married couple, including the right to adopt children. It makes a big difference.
• DenisonBigRedLax

  FairwoodKing wrote:

  fan_from_texas wrote:

  FairwoodKing wrote: I'm an atheist. I don't accept what the Catholics or Baptists or Mormons say. So why should they have the right to dictate what kind of life I can lead?

  How are they wrongfully dictating what kind of life you can lead? It's certainly their prerogative to run their organization as they see fit, just as it is fine and proper for various gay rights organizations to operate as they see fit. If you don't like what they stand for, don't support them. I don't see what the big deal is.
  
  I'm sure there are plenty of clubs that wouldn't accept me as a member. I guess I can either suck it up, put on my big boy pants, and get over it, or, in the alternative, change who I am so they will accept me. If it's a big enough deal to be accepted, I can change who I am. If it isn't, then I might as well get over it.
  
  In most states, sexual orientation isn't a protected class, IIRC. I think it's unfair to label an organization 'hateful' simply because they disagree with you.

  These religious organizations are responsible for passing laws that hurt people like me. Just a few months ago in California, the voters turned down a gay rights referendum largely becacuse the Mormon Church campaigned so strongly against it.
  
  Fortunately for me, here in the State of Washington, sexual orientation is a protected class. True, we still don't have gay marriage, but we have everything except calling it that. If I had a lover, we would have almost all of the rights of a married couple, including the right to adopt children. It makes a big difference.

  then why dont you get your gay friends to rally and campaign for gay rights...looks like they just tried harder than you
• skank

  

  Catholics recruit also.
• FairwoodKing

  DenisonBigRedLax wrote:

  FairwoodKing wrote:

  fan_from_texas wrote:

  FairwoodKing wrote: I'm an atheist. I don't accept what the Catholics or Baptists or Mormons say. So why should they have the right to dictate what kind of life I can lead?

  How are they wrongfully dictating what kind of life you can lead? It's certainly their prerogative to run their organization as they see fit, just as it is fine and proper for various gay rights organizations to operate as they see fit. If you don't like what they stand for, don't support them. I don't see what the big deal is.
  
  I'm sure there are plenty of clubs that wouldn't accept me as a member. I guess I can either suck it up, put on my big boy pants, and get over it, or, in the alternative, change who I am so they will accept me. If it's a big enough deal to be accepted, I can change who I am. If it isn't, then I might as well get over it.
  
  In most states, sexual orientation isn't a protected class, IIRC. I think it's unfair to label an organization 'hateful' simply because they disagree with you.

  These religious organizations are responsible for passing laws that hurt people like me. Just a few months ago in California, the voters turned down a gay rights referendum largely becacuse the Mormon Church campaigned so strongly against it.
  
  Fortunately for me, here in the State of Washington, sexual orientation is a protected class. True, we still don't have gay marriage, but we have everything except calling it that. If I had a lover, we would have almost all of the rights of a married couple, including the right to adopt children. It makes a big difference.

  then why dont you get your gay friends to rally and campaign for gay rights...looks like they just tried harder than you

  My gay friends and I did campaign very hard here in Washington State and we won. I'm just sorry that our brothers and sisters in CA didn't have the same results.
• DenisonBigRedLax

  FairwoodKing wrote:

  DenisonBigRedLax wrote:

  FairwoodKing wrote:

  fan_from_texas wrote:

  FairwoodKing wrote: I'm an atheist. I don't accept what the Catholics or Baptists or Mormons say. So why should they have the right to dictate what kind of life I can lead?

  How are they wrongfully dictating what kind of life you can lead? It's certainly their prerogative to run their organization as they see fit, just as it is fine and proper for various gay rights organizations to operate as they see fit. If you don't like what they stand for, don't support them. I don't see what the big deal is.
  
  I'm sure there are plenty of clubs that wouldn't accept me as a member. I guess I can either suck it up, put on my big boy pants, and get over it, or, in the alternative, change who I am so they will accept me. If it's a big enough deal to be accepted, I can change who I am. If it isn't, then I might as well get over it.
  
  In most states, sexual orientation isn't a protected class, IIRC. I think it's unfair to label an organization 'hateful' simply because they disagree with you.

  These religious organizations are responsible for passing laws that hurt people like me. Just a few months ago in California, the voters turned down a gay rights referendum largely becacuse the Mormon Church campaigned so strongly against it.
  
  Fortunately for me, here in the State of Washington, sexual orientation is a protected class. True, we still don't have gay marriage, but we have everything except calling it that. If I had a lover, we would have almost all of the rights of a married couple, including the right to adopt children. It makes a big difference.

  then why dont you get your gay friends to rally and campaign for gay rights...looks like they just tried harder than you

  My gay friends and I did campaign very hard here in Washington State and we won. I'm just sorry that our brothers and sisters in CA didn't have the same results.

  or didnt try hard enough
• Gardens35

  The Catholics stole another erection...
• DenisonBigRedLax

  Gardens35 wrote: The Catholics stole another erection...

  que?
• majorspark

  

  FairwoodKing wrote: These religious organizations are responsible for passing laws that hurt people like me. Just a few months ago in California, the voters turned down a gay rights referendum largely becacuse the Mormon Church campaigned so strongly against it.
  
  Fortunately for me, here in the State of Washington, sexual orientation is a protected class. True, we still don't have gay marriage, but we have everything except calling it that. If I had a lover, we would have almost all of the rights of a married couple, including the right to adopt children. It makes a big difference.

  
  Then be thankful you have a place to live as you wish in this country instead of trying to force your beliefs on the whole nation. We can't all agree on everything.
• Society

  Is there any way to keep this crap on the political forum?
• dwccrew

  

  As long as the government isn't intervening, I have no problem with the Catholic church operating their private organization as they see fit. I don't care for the Catholic church, but I have no problem with them operating based on their beliefs.
  
  As far as a gay rights referendum, I feel the government should treat gays as equals to heterosexuals, but the people voted against it. And using your (FairwoodKing) logic with the smoking bans, this is the same thing. The voters have spoken. I may not agree with it, but this is the way of it.
• september63

  

  A little culture and hearing both sides to a religious debate wont kill you Society. If the thread isnt ur thing, dont click on it.
• Society

  september63 wrote: A little culture and hearing both sides to a religious debate wont kill you Society. If the thread isnt ur thing, dont click on it.

  It's not the religious portion. It's the whining about gays being picked on.
• september63

  

  Same reply. Dont click on it then.
• Society

  september63 wrote: Same reply. Dont click on it then.

  That's too easy.
• FairwoodKing

  majorspark wrote:

  FairwoodKing wrote: These religious organizations are responsible for passing laws that hurt people like me. Just a few months ago in California, the voters turned down a gay rights referendum largely becacuse the Mormon Church campaigned so strongly against it.
  
  Fortunately for me, here in the State of Washington, sexual orientation is a protected class. True, we still don't have gay marriage, but we have everything except calling it that. If I had a lover, we would have almost all of the rights of a married couple, including the right to adopt children. It makes a big difference.

  
  Then be thankful you have a place to live as you wish in this country instead of trying to force your beliefs on the whole nation. We can't all agree on everything.

  If I replaced the word "gay" with "black", would you still think I was trying to force my beliefs on everyone? I have no more choice in being gay than African Americans have in being black. We are only looking for human rights for everybody.
• Society

  FairwoodKing wrote:

  majorspark wrote:

  FairwoodKing wrote: These religious organizations are responsible for passing laws that hurt people like me. Just a few months ago in California, the voters turned down a gay rights referendum largely becacuse the Mormon Church campaigned so strongly against it.
  
  Fortunately for me, here in the State of Washington, sexual orientation is a protected class. True, we still don't have gay marriage, but we have everything except calling it that. If I had a lover, we would have almost all of the rights of a married couple, including the right to adopt children. It makes a big difference.

  
  Then be thankful you have a place to live as you wish in this country instead of trying to force your beliefs on the whole nation. We can't all agree on everything.

  If I replaced the word "gay" with "black", would you still think I was trying to force my beliefs on everyone? I have no more choice in being gay than African Americans have in being black. We are only looking for human rights for everybody.

  Don't lie to yourself. You have a choice.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  Is this yet another form of zealotry?
• iclfan2

  

  Dude you're not going to change a religion. They are against it and don't need to fold to anything. What "basic human right" don't you have for being gay? Also, Mormons didn't lose you proposition 8, the liberal agenda of getting blacks out in droves to vote for Obama is what lost prop. 8. Which is ironic in itself.