Homosexuality vs. religion

• Series62

  FairwoodKing wrote:

  september63 wrote:

  FairwoodKing wrote:

  september63 wrote: IF you had started with that post this debate would have ended before it started. You were beating around the bush and FINALLY posted what you wanted to post from the beginning.

  I will clarify:
  
  I want laws changed that will enable two gay men or two lesbians to legally marry and to enjoy all the rights and privileges of marriage.
  
  I want anti-discrimination laws passed that will prevent gays and lesbians from being fired from their jobs or being evicted from their homes because of their sexual orientation.
  
  I want all states to prosecute attacks on gays as hate crimes with severe punishments for the attackers.
  
  
  Christian churches are preventing these things from happening. If it were not for Christian theology, gays would have proper protections in this country.

  Voters are keeping these things from happening!! Bottom line. Not every voter is voting based on their "Christian" beliefs. You have a problem with Christian beliefs or Catholicism? Suggestion: Make up your mind and come back to debate this another day?

  Christian clergy tell their congregations not to vote for these laws. The Mormons worked very hard last year to get voters to reject pro-gay laws in California. If you think Christianity doesn't have a big affect on gay laws, then you have your head buried in the sand.

  If Christian Clergy are properly teaching and preaching the word of God, and God's word does say that homosexuality, like murder, theft, lying, etc., are sinful acts against God, then therefore, in an effort to uphold God's law do we not support/vote for any mad-made laws that would go against God and His law. If a voter is not voting based upon their Christian belief, perhaps they are voting against that which they know to be wrong.
  
  It is a very weak argument to attempt to compare your decision of homosexuality to people who are born Black, Jewish or any other race for that matter.
  
  Were there ever laws on the books that discriminated against you primarily because you were gay such as the Jim-Crow laws between 1876-1965 against black men?
  
  You made a choice that you know to be morally wrong and wrong against God. As a Christian man, I cannot hate you at all regardless of your lifestyle, that does mean however that I will forsake not telling you the truth of God's word because some may view it as harsh.
  
  God hate's ALL sin, (it applies beyond homosexuality), those who do not repent, seek His forgiveness and turn from their sinful nature (way of life), will face God come judgment day.
  
  That too, is said in love!
• BCSbunk

  CenterBHSFan wrote:

  BCSbunk wrote:

  fan_from_texas wrote:

  FairwoodKing wrote: I think the Catholic Church is the biggest hate group in the world. They claim to love everyone, but their actions surely prove just the opposite.

  I'm a little unclear on this. Is it possible to love someone and disapprove of actions they take? Is it possible to love someone and treat them harshly? Is it possible to be full of love and yet adopt stances that others find repugnant?
  
  Regardless of whether homosexuality is kosher or not, it seems to me that an organization sticking by a belief it has sincerely held for thousands of years--rather than dropping it at the whim of cultural fashion--isn't indicative of hate.

  Yeah sound logic here. The KKK has always lynched so it must be okay. The Church used to hang witches so it must be good.
  It is hatred and it will eventually be stricken down by law just like the racist practices have been limited.

  Let me reiterate what you just typed there:
  "The Church USED to hange witches so it must be good"
  
  So is the line of logic that you're using of the mind that if the Church USED to do something that means it still is doing something?
  It's what you typed.
  When you used the word "used" that means that something changed and that they no longer do it.
  But, hey, why let that stop ya?
  
  I've said it before and I'll say it again, lots and lots of ZEALOTRY on both sides of this issue, this thread makes it glaringly obvious.
  
  

  Until the social pressures forced them to stop their hatred and bigotry and the hatred and bigotry against homosexuals will also stop.
• NNN

  

  BCSbunk wrote: Until the social pressures forced them to stop their hatred and bigotry and the hatred and bigotry against homosexuals will also stop.

  Really? The Klan no longer engages in hatred and bigotry? That's news to me.
  
  I'm getting tired of saying it, but there are way too many people who have ZERO idea of what the difference is between bigotry, prejudice, and discrimination.
• SQ_Crazies

  

  I'll start by saying:
  
  1. I didn't read any of the thread.
  2. I'm not gay and I lean right quite a ways.
  
  I'll end by saying:
  
  1. Religion is 10 times more fucked up than homosexuality.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  NNN wrote:

  BCSbunk wrote: Until the social pressures forced them to stop their hatred and bigotry and the hatred and bigotry against homosexuals will also stop.

  Really? The Klan no longer engages in hatred and bigotry? That's news to me.
  
  I'm getting tired of saying it, but there are way too many people who have ZERO idea of what the difference is between bigotry, prejudice, and discrimination.

  AMEN!!! I've pounded that principle also, but it's totally ignored for the most part.
• BCSbunk

  NNN wrote:

  BCSbunk wrote: Until the social pressures forced them to stop their hatred and bigotry and the hatred and bigotry against homosexuals will also stop.

  Really? The Klan no longer engages in hatred and bigotry? That's news to me.
  
  I'm getting tired of saying it, but there are way too many people who have ZERO idea of what the difference is between bigotry, prejudice, and discrimination.

  You are taking me out of context. That was in response to CBHSfan and specifically about the church.
  
  I am well aware of the difference of bigotry prejudice and discrimination and the twisting tales hatemongers use to pervert them.
  
  The bible tells us what we need to know about homosexuals. The bible is gods word is it not? Or is it gods word when it is convienent?
  
  "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
  
  The bad book says to kill homosexuals. I guess we should feel lucky all they do is discriminate against them and not allow them to marry etc.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  Umm.. Just so ya know, most (read MOST) Christians do not follow the book of Leviticus in any strict sense.
  
  In fact, for the most part, the people who even bring up the book of Leviticus to me have been non-believers trying to act like it's something the average Christian staunchly adheres to.
  Like what you're currently doing.
• FairwoodKing

  Series62 wrote:

  FairwoodKing wrote:

  september63 wrote:

  FairwoodKing wrote:

  september63 wrote: IF you had started with that post this debate would have ended before it started. You were beating around the bush and FINALLY posted what you wanted to post from the beginning.

  I will clarify:
  
  I want laws changed that will enable two gay men or two lesbians to legally marry and to enjoy all the rights and privileges of marriage.
  
  I want anti-discrimination laws passed that will prevent gays and lesbians from being fired from their jobs or being evicted from their homes because of their sexual orientation.
  
  I want all states to prosecute attacks on gays as hate crimes with severe punishments for the attackers.
  
  
  Christian churches are preventing these things from happening. If it were not for Christian theology, gays would have proper protections in this country.

  Voters are keeping these things from happening!! Bottom line. Not every voter is voting based on their "Christian" beliefs. You have a problem with Christian beliefs or Catholicism? Suggestion: Make up your mind and come back to debate this another day?

  Christian clergy tell their congregations not to vote for these laws. The Mormons worked very hard last year to get voters to reject pro-gay laws in California. If you think Christianity doesn't have a big affect on gay laws, then you have your head buried in the sand.

  If Christian Clergy are properly teaching and preaching the word of God, and God's word does say that homosexuality, like murder, theft, lying, etc., are sinful acts against God, then therefore, in an effort to uphold God's law do we not support/vote for any mad-made laws that would go against God and His law. If a voter is not voting based upon their Christian belief, perhaps they are voting against that which they know to be wrong.
  
  It is a very weak argument to attempt to compare your decision of homosexuality to people who are born Black, Jewish or any other race for that matter.
  
  Were there ever laws on the books that discriminated against you primarily because you were gay such as the Jim-Crow laws between 1876-1965 against black men?
  
  You made a choice that you know to be morally wrong and wrong against God. As a Christian man, I cannot hate you at all regardless of your lifestyle, that does mean however that I will forsake not telling you the truth of God's word because some may view it as harsh.
  
  God hate's ALL sin, (it applies beyond homosexuality), those who do not repent, seek His forgiveness and turn from their sinful nature (way of life), will face God come judgment day.
  
  That too, is said in love!

  There are several things wrong with your statements.
  
  First, "It is a very weak argument to attempt to compare your decision of homosexuality to people who are born Black, Jewish or any other race for that matter."
  
  For the tenth time, I never chose to be gay. For a man, being gay means that you get an erection around other men, not women. I never chose how my cock operates. I have gotten an erection because of men since I was five years old. How can you call a 5-year-old a sinner? I discovered jacking off when I was around eleven. I first identified myself as a homosexual when I was eighteen. For twelve years I did everything I could do not to be gay, but it just didn't work. Finally when I was 30, I accepted what I was and moved forward. At no point did I ever chose to be gay. For me, being gay is as much a part of me as being black is to an African American. We both have an equal chance of changing what we are.
  
  You have a problem. You don't want to believe me because that would put a crack in your theory that the Bible contains absolute truth. I know the Bible is wrong even though it will take someone more pursuasive than me to convince you. This is the biggest reason why I no longer believe in anything about religion. I know the Bible is wrong about homosexuality and I know it is wrong about a lot of other things. You see, I am a person who thinks for himself. You should try it sometime.
  
  Secondly, "Were there ever laws on the books that discriminated against you primarily because you were gay such as the Jim-Crow laws between 1876-1965 against black men?"
  
  Yes. Fifty years ago gays had to register with the police. Gay bars were regularly raided and the customers were thrown in jail. As of just a few years ago, having gay sex was illegal in Texas. The law got overturned when two men were arrested and took the matter to the Texas Supreme Court. It was the court, not the voters or legislature, that overturned the law.
  
  The modern gay movement started in 1969 in a bar named Stonewall in Greenwich Village in New York. The police made a routine raid. But this time the patrons fought back, trapping the police inside the bar. This went on for three days. Stonewall became a rallying cry for gays and lesbians, and the result has been the overturn of a lot of discriminatory laws.
  
  Outside of the United States, things have been much worse. The Old Testament says to kill gays, and Catholics actally did during the Middle Ages. Our people were often burned at the stake. The Nazis made our people wear pink triangles and then sent to concentration camps. Over 100,000 gays and lesbians died horrible deaths there. The Soviets sent gays to the Gulag. There are many countries in the world today where gays are arrested and treated to horrible punishments.
  
  Christianity was not responsible for brutal treatments by the Nazis or communists, but it is responsible for people like you not voting for laws to give us equal rights. We are not asking for anything special. We just want the same rights as straight people.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  I will definitely agree with F.K. on one thing: people can't help if they're straight or gay. People just like what they like, there is no accounting for it. I believe they are born that way and don't realize/figure it out until later.
• Society

  Like I told you before. Quit lying to yourself. You have a choice as whether to be gay or not. You choose to be gay.
• Society

  CenterBHSFan wrote: I will definitely agree with F.K. on one thing: people can't help if they're straight or gay. People just like what they like, there is no accounting for it. I believe they are born that way and don't realize/figure it out until later.

  Quit hiding your sexuality and just pm fairwood already.
• DeyDurkie5

  

  CenterBHSFan wrote: I will definitely agree with F.K. on one thing: people can't help if they're straight or gay. People just like what they like, there is no accounting for it. I believe they are born that way and don't realize/figure it out until later.

  If you agree with that, then how can you base your beliefs that it is a sin? How can you honestly sit here and identify this as a sin along the same lines of murder, theft, adultry, etc.
• iclfan2

  

  FairwoodKing wrote: We just want the same rights as straight people.

  No you want more. Like being a protected class and hate crime legislation. That isn't going to help your case.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  Again with the Leviticus/Old Testament.
  
  I have yet in my lifetime to meet a Christian who:
  
  - ritual sacrifices of animals or "cereal"
  - determines what is clean or unclean food according to hooves and cud chewing
  - a woman who keeps track of her clean/unclean periods (menstrual and childbirth) where she shall not touch or be touched or share a chair with someone and must be purified and have a sacrifice before said contact can happen again
  - sends a scapegoat out into a wilderness to carry off our iniquities
  
  I think we get the picture. To use that example for hijinx/argumentative purposes is a little more than ridiculous.
• FairwoodKing

  God hate's ALL sin, (it applies beyond homosexuality), those who do not repent, seek His forgiveness and turn from their sinful nature (way of life), will face God come judgment day.
  
  That too, is said in love!
  [/quote]
  
  P.S. I don't believe in God or in judgment day, so I'm not sitting here worried about it.
• september63

  

  US Senator Ron Ashford (R) Cal. has sent you a PM Society! Not even because I think you are gay, but because he wants to Thank You for being a bigger hypocryte than him!! Well, You are so homophobic, perhaps you are gay. Afrerall, that was his method of operation the past several years.
• FairwoodKing

  Society wrote: Like I told you before. Quit lying to yourself. You have a choice as whether to be gay or not. You choose to be gay.

  I was lying to myself when I thought I could change. The only choice I made was to accept what I am and to be sexually active. I only regret that it took me so long to come out of the closet.
• Society

  september63 wrote: US Senator Ron Ashford (R) Cal. has sent you a PM Society! Not even because I think you are gay, but because he wants to Thank You for being a bigger hypocryte than him!! Well, You are so homophobic, perhaps you are gay. Afrerall, that was his method of operation the past several years.

  HaHa! You contradict yourself.
• Society

  FairwoodKing wrote:

  Society wrote: Like I told you before. Quit lying to yourself. You have a choice as whether to be gay or not. You choose to be gay.

  I was lying to myself when I thought I could change. The only choice I made was to accept what I am and to be sexually active. I only regret that it took me so long to come out of the closet.

  Then don't complain about not being able to have a family. If you want a family, quit being gay.
• FairwoodKing

  Society wrote:

  FairwoodKing wrote:

  Society wrote: Like I told you before. Quit lying to yourself. You have a choice as whether to be gay or not. You choose to be gay.

  I was lying to myself when I thought I could change. The only choice I made was to accept what I am and to be sexually active. I only regret that it took me so long to come out of the closet.

  Then don't complain about not being able to have a family. If you want a family, quit being gay.

  I never said I wanted a family. In fact, I specifically do not.
• Society

  FairwoodKing wrote:

  Society wrote:

  FairwoodKing wrote:

  Society wrote: Like I told you before. Quit lying to yourself. You have a choice as whether to be gay or not. You choose to be gay.

  I was lying to myself when I thought I could change. The only choice I made was to accept what I am and to be sexually active. I only regret that it took me so long to come out of the closet.

  Then don't complain about not being able to have a family. If you want a family, quit being gay.

  I never said I wanted a family. In fact, I specifically do not.

  Good. No need to worry about those poor children then.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  DeyDurkie5 wrote:

  CenterBHSFan wrote: I will definitely agree with F.K. on one thing: people can't help if they're straight or gay. People just like what they like, there is no accounting for it. I believe they are born that way and don't realize/figure it out until later.

  If you agree with that, then how can you base your beliefs that it is a sin? How can you honestly sit here and identify this as a sin along the same lines of murder, theft, adultry, etc.

  
  Quote me for doing that, please.
  
  I'm not a mindless robot. I have my faith but that doesn't mean that I blindly agree with everything.
  I have never, ever said that I personally identify his sexuality with "murder, theft, adultry, etc."
  I have never attacked or argued with F.K. about his sexuality. I have argued with him and pointed out nonsensical and outlandish claims. His sexuality is something I don't have hatred about, and I certainly would never taunt him about it.
  
  Where has that consideration been reciprocated by him or others like him?
• FairwoodKing

  Society wrote:

  FairwoodKing wrote:

  Society wrote:

  FairwoodKing wrote:

  Society wrote: Like I told you before. Quit lying to yourself. You have a choice as whether to be gay or not. You choose to be gay.

  I was lying to myself when I thought I could change. The only choice I made was to accept what I am and to be sexually active. I only regret that it took me so long to come out of the closet.

  Then don't complain about not being able to have a family. If you want a family, quit being gay.

  I never said I wanted a family. In fact, I specifically do not.

  Good. No need to worry about those poor children then.

  I'd make a better father than you would. At least I'm not a bigot.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  Society wrote:

  CenterBHSFan wrote: I will definitely agree with F.K. on one thing: people can't help if they're straight or gay. People just like what they like, there is no accounting for it. I believe they are born that way and don't realize/figure it out until later.

  Quit hiding your sexuality and just pm fairwood already.

  Haha! Dude, I'm a female, and definitely heterosexual.
• Heretic

  

  People, people...please, Jebus has more important things for you to worry about than gays and whatnot.
  
  
  
  Now follow His order!