Why do you pray?

• rmolin73

  

  sleeper;1057455 wrote:SMH. Clearly, you are unable to use logic and reason, using facts, to infer the correct claim. If you truly believe that people do not mask there religious beliefs to be accepted by society at large, than I cannot help you.

  WTF? Get your GED diploma back they have failed you.
• sleeper

  

  FatHobbit;1057458 wrote:Did someone cite an imaginary study that claimed to do that?

  No, but apparently a valid study is needed before something can be proven. I learned this today. Are you having trouble finding a link to prove the claims in which you so vehemently defend?
• The Equalizer

  

  Faith is believing without proof. People pray because they have faith. It really isn't more complicated than that.
• Con_Alma

  sleeper;1057465 wrote:... I argue for the benefit of others in the hope that society can release these regressive and indefensible beliefs.

  Your generous philanthropic effort is better understood with this explanation. I appreciate it.
  
  I think you might have a greater success in your logical crusade if you took a less demeaning approach but then again, it's probably more genuine if you stay true to your own personality.
  
  How might you determine who is using religion for societal accpetnace versus those who are truly believers?
• 4cards

  

  "Faith is believing without proof. People pray because they have faith. It really isn't more complicated than that."
  
  ...my feelings as well equalizer!
• sleeper

  

  LJ;1057460 wrote:Clearly, you have no idea how to read an academic study.
  
  Clearly, you have no studies to back up your claim that the "majority " of believers only make the claim to be accepted. I never said anywhere that there are not people that do that. I am only saying your claim is bull****, and the study you linked makes no such claim.

  False. There's little incentive for me to dig up the studies when I know the majority on here will simply think of a way to discredit them rather than understand them and agree with me. Why waste the time?
  
  My claim can be inferred using logic and reason. According to that study, 20% of people claim to be atheists in that study, yet I would bet that less than .01% of politicians are atheist publicly. Given a large enough sample size, one can easily infer that a majority of politicians hide their true beliefs to get elected. I don't need a study or a link to deduce that and frankly, neither should you.
• sleeper

  

  Con_Alma;1057461 wrote:I don't dismiss that this may and probably does exist. Can you tell me how you might know who does portray that hey have religious beliefs for the purposes of societal acceptance as compared to those who actually have such beliefs?

  I can't tell you on an individual basis. Sorry. I can only infer based on logic and reasoning. That is how science works after all. You take what you do know and you use it to try and explain what you don't. Religion does not work this way. Religion is you take what you don't know and try to pass it off as something you do know.
• LJ

  

  Ah, so Sleeper made everything up, and there is no such study to back up his claim. Therefore, he lied. Good to know
• Raw Dawgin' it

  

  sleeper;1057465 wrote:I am under the assumption that I cannot change someone's mind especially when it comes to their own personal religious beliefs. However, I am under the assumption that I can influence others that may read this post and decide that its okay to not believe in religion. In fact, using logic and reason, one can easily defend an atheist perspective rather than a believer's point of view. I don't argue for YOUR personal benefit, I argue for the benefit of others in the hope that society can release these regressive and indefensible beliefs.

  Sleep, the peoples champ! lol
• ernest_t_bass

  

  sleeper;1057396 wrote:Sorry, but when you make a claim you are expected to be able to provide evidence to prove your claim. It cannot work the other way around. Otherwise, I could simply make any statement I want and if you cannot disprove it, then it must be true! This is terrible logic.

  LOL. Um, no. I'm saying that I cannot prove that God exists.
  
  Are you not making a claim that God does not exist? If that is your claim, do you not have to provide evidence to prove your claim?
  
  Your argument is flawed, and is merely bait for you. You already know the answer... The existence/non-existence of God cannot be proven. You just don't care about the other side of the claim-proving (non-existence). I'm not falling for what you're trying to do.
• FatHobbit

  

  sleeper;1057468 wrote:No, but apparently a valid study is needed before something can be proven. I learned this today.

  If you claim to have read a study, you should be able to provide that study. Otherwise every moron in the world would use imaginary studies to prove whatever random claim they cared to make.
  

  sleeper;1057468 wrote:Are you having trouble finding a link to prove the claims in which you so vehemently defend?

  Did I make a claim?
• sleeper

  

  rmolin73;1057466 wrote:WTF? Get your GED diploma back they have failed you.

  Your hatred for me and my views blinds you. If you actually want to engage in any discussion, feel free to jump in.
  
  I find it disheartening that everyone is getting so upset regarding this topic. This was not my intention. Also, attacking me has no effect on my agenda, so why bother?
• ernest_t_bass

  

  sleeper;1057420 wrote:Again, the wall of "I can believe whatever I want" has been hit. Embarrassing.

  Aren't YOU believing whatever it is you want, based on your OWN ideologies? If someone is raised atheist, should they then become a believer, based on your logic?
• sleeper

  

  LJ;1057478 wrote:Ah, so Sleeper made everything up, and there is no such study to back up his claim. Therefore, he lied. Good to know

  Interesting that you continue to harp on an 'exact' study for my personal and defensible point of view. Do you not follow my logic? It's honestly not that difficult.
• Con_Alma

  sleeper;1057477 wrote:I can't tell you on an individual basis. ...

  
  I already knew you couldn't. I was simply trying to determine if you would admit as much.
  
  Thank you.
• LJ

  

  I'm not harping on your "logic". I am "harping" on the fact that you make shit up.

  sleeper;1057486 wrote:Interesting that you continue to harp on an 'exact' study for my personal and defensible point of view. Do you not follow my logic? It's honestly not that difficult.

• sleeper

  

  ernest_t_bass;1057481 wrote:LOL. Um, no. I'm saying that I cannot prove that God exists.
  
  Are you not making a claim that God does not exist? If that is your claim, do you not have to provide evidence to prove your claim?
  
  Your argument is flawed, and is merely bait for you. You already know the answer... The existence/non-existence of God cannot be proven. You just don't care about the other side of the claim-proving (non-existence). I'm not falling for what you're trying to do.

  I don't know if god exists. I also don't know which god exists.
  
  Also do you not see the gaping hole of logic with proving somethings non-existence? This is not the way the world works. If I make a claim that invisible flying unicorns are running the world, can you prove that they don't exist? If not, then its a long leap for me to then claim that they indeed must exist.
• DeyDurkie5

  

  Con_Alma;1057488 wrote:I already knew you couldn't. I was simply trying to determine if you would admit as much.
  
  Thank you.

  sleeper just got /con almd
• Raw Dawgin' it

  

  sleeper;1057483 wrote:I find it disheartening that everyone is getting so upset regarding this topic.

  yeah right, are you that naive?
• sleeper

  

  LJ;1057492 wrote:I'm not harping on your "logic". I am "harping" on the fact that you make **** up.

  Much like any religious belief. Made up.
• rmolin73

  

  sleeper;1057483 wrote:Your hatred for me and my views blinds you. If you actually want to engage in any discussion, feel free to jump in.
  
  I find it disheartening that everyone is getting so upset regarding this topic. This was not my intention. Also, attacking me has no effect on my agenda, so why bother?

  Trust me pal I don't hate you. You are in no way significant enough for me to hate you. You humor me tremedously so keep up the good work.
• sleeper

  

  ernest_t_bass;1057484 wrote:Aren't YOU believing whatever it is you want, based on your OWN ideologies? If someone is raised atheist, should they then become a believer, based on your logic?

  Atheism = a lack of belief. It's different. I lack belief.
• sleeper

  

  LJ;1057478 wrote:Ah, so Sleeper made everything up, and there is no such study to back up his claim. Therefore, he lied. Good to know

  This is trolling at worst and misinterpreting at best. I expect better from a moderator.
  
  Cue your typical "I only mod the politics forum" shtick.
• osudarby08

  

  Well this thread went to hell real quick...
• sleeper

  

  Con_Alma;1057471 wrote:Your generous philanthropic effort is better understood with this explanation. I appreciate it.
  
  I think you might have a greater success in your logical crusade if you took a less demeaning approach but then again, it's probably more genuine if you stay true to your own personality.
  
  How might you determine who is using religion for societal accpetnace versus those who are truly believers?

  I am not meaning to be demeaning. When you present people with logic that refutes their belief system, they are going to get upset. No one likes when they are wrong, and its hard for the human mind to rationalize something that doesn't hold any logical weight. This is basic human psychology and is well documented. I suppose I need links as well to explain basic psychology to people, unfortunately wikipedia is not working today.