Archive

The National Anthem

  • gut
    Dr Winston O'Boogie;1877186 wrote:This attitude explains the poisonous vitriol you had for Obama. That boy didn’t know his place.
    I thought it was pretty funny. All of you calling QO racist know damn well the VAST majority of cop shootings involve someone resisting arrest or failing to respond to orders to some degree.
  • isadore
    you got Quaker Oats all wrong. He had a thing with Aunt Jemima
  • CenterBHSFan
    Yes, because it always has to be about race nowadays. Always. *yawn*
  • Zunardo
    isadore;1877197 wrote:you got Quaker Oats all wrong. He had a thing with Aunt Jemima
    Older white guys got it going on.
  • Automatik
    CenterBHSFan;1877204 wrote:Yes, because it always has to be about race nowadays. Always. *yawn*
    How would you interpret that meme?
  • QuakerOats
    gut;1877196 wrote:I thought it was pretty funny. All of you calling QO racist know damn well the VAST majority of cop shootings involve someone resisting arrest or failing to respond to orders to some degree.


    Ya think
  • Automatik
    Yes, but how does that relate to NFL players kneeling?
  • like_that
    Automatik;1877219 wrote:Yes, but how does that relate to NFL players kneeling?
    It definetely relates to race, since the protests in a nutshell (although it seems like nobody knows wtf they are truly protesting anymore), is the "oppression" of blacks, which cops are involved in allegedly. Relatable? Yes. Racist? It all depends on which side you fall on for the oppression debate.
  • CenterBHSFan
    Automatik;1877208 wrote:How would you interpret that meme?
    If the pic had been this I would have thought the same way:



    But it's not like white people don't run from the cops, too:

  • CenterBHSFan
    And when the hell was the last time a football player was shot by a cop, anyway? Good God, people.
  • Heretic
    CenterBHSFan;1877227 wrote:And when the hell was the last time a football player was shot by a cop, anyway? Good God, people.
    Which makes the meme even more stupid and pointless. Like all of QQ's poli-posts.
  • O-Trap
    thavoice;1877166 wrote:but if they follow up those burnings with not buying any more apparrel, or attending games, or watching then yes it becomes problematic
    Sure, but the problem there is the not buying more. Whether the previous jerseys get burned or not really isn't of any consequence.
    gut;1877167 wrote:Personally, I haven't bought a team hat or jersey since I was a teenager. LMAO at the people who don't own a good shirt, but have several $100 jerseys.
    I sort of see it this way, too. These days, jersey are gifts. They're not the sort of thing I'd ever go out to buy myself.
    Dr Winston O'Boogie;1877185 wrote:Dem’s gittin’ upiity. Were a day when dem knowed dare places. Me ‘n’ mine, we
    got us one word fer dem. Day ain’t better not show dare faces round dis town. I got me a darne shotgun shell within one of dem upity one’s name wrote right on it.
    I have to admit, that was probably the best impression of some inbred, racist redneck that I've ever seen in text form.
    gut;1877196 wrote:I thought it was pretty funny. All of you calling QO racist know damn well the VAST majority of cop shootings involve someone resisting arrest or failing to respond to orders to some degree.
    I mean sure, but it seems like a lot of the ones involving disobedience or resisting aren't the sort in which the one being arrested has posed any danger.

    In theory, if a guy litters, a cop tells him to pick it up, he doesn't, and the cop shoots him, that would be an example of disobedience. Whether or not it warrants the use of deadly force just seems like a very different matter.
    isadore;1877197 wrote:you got Quaker Oats all wrong. He had a thing with Aunt Jemima
    Given the strictness of the Quakers, I'm guessing the sexual repression would have been strong with the old guy.
    CenterBHSFan;1877226 wrote:But it's not like white people don't run from the cops, too
    They do indeed. They just don't seem to get shot as often.
  • CenterBHSFan
    Heretic;1877229 wrote:Which makes the meme even more stupid and pointless. Like all of QQ's poli-posts.
    lol!
    O-Trap;1877230 wrote:Given the strictness of the Quakers, I'm guessing the sexual repression would have been strong with the old guy.
    lolx2
  • QuakerOats
    O-Trap;1877230 wrote:They do indeed. They just don't seem to get shot as often.


    With "seem" being the operative word
  • Heretic
    O-Trap;1877230 wrote:Given the strictness of the Quakers, I'm guessing the sexual repression would have been strong with the old guy.
    So, what you're saying is that QQ would fantasize about Aunt Jemima, then flagellate himself for penance, before going off to write an angry letter to George Washington about being influenced by Ben Franklin's liberal science.
  • QuakerOats
    https://www.usatoday.com/sports/nfl/arrests/
  • superman
    That link is cancer
  • gut
    O-Trap;1877230 wrote: In theory, if a guy litters, a cop tells him to pick it up, he doesn't, and the cop shoots him, that would be an example of disobedience. Whether or not it warrants the use of deadly force just seems like a very different matter.
    Cops make mistakes. The most egregious being the NRA guy sitting in his car, and then that woman that called in to report a rape(?). Oddly we heard very little about those two instances. We all know better than to use a few bad examples to generalize an entire group of people :)

    The problem is, all this seems to have been kicked off around phony narratives with Trevon Martin and Michael Brown (both of whom had a very significant role to play in getting themselves shot). And while there is injustice, when THAT is your motivation and inspiration it's hard to take these people seriously.


    Cops have their own set of issues to deal with. But I don't think they are a primary cause, or even a significant one, with respect to the issue of justice and fairness. To focus marches and protests on the cops just shows, once again, how stupid the average American is, chasing after whatever shiny ball their leaders throw.
  • QuakerOats
    gut;1877265 wrote:Cops have their own set of issues to deal with. But I don't think they are a primary cause, or even a significant one, with respect to the issue of justice and fairness. To focus marches and protests on the cops just shows, once again, how stupid the average American is, chasing after whatever shiny ball their leaders throw.

    Exactly.

    Spend half a day in a cops shoes in any big city.
  • O-Trap
    QuakerOats;1877247 wrote:With "seem" being the operative word
    Ultimately, even if white people are shot as frequently, I daresay it's problematic all the same.

    I suppose I would offer this:

    https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ph98.pdf

    Notable citation (deals with 1978-1998 date range):

    "In 1998 blacks made up 12% of thepopulation age 13 or older butaccounted for 40% of persons arrestedfor violent crime and 35% of felonskilled by police. The 1998 statisticsillustrate both the comparatively highrate of justifiable homicide involvingblacks and the racial similarity betweenpersons arrested by police and felonskilled by police."

    Worthy of note: This appears to deal with felons, so it doesn't really claim to address non-felons involved in police shootings. I've not found a credible (read: peer-reviewed; verifiable) source on non-felon police shootings.
    Heretic;1877250 wrote:So, what you're saying is that QQ would fantasize about Aunt Jemima, then flagellate himself for penance, before going off to write an angry letter to George Washington about being influenced by Ben Franklin's liberal science.
    Oh, no. He would NEVER admit to having been influenced by Ben Franklin's liberal science. ;)
  • gut
    O-Trap;1877269 wrote: "In 1998 blacks made up 12% of thepopulation age 13 or older butaccounted for 40% of persons arrestedfor violent crime and 35% of felonskilled by police. The 1998 statisticsillustrate both the comparatively highrate of justifiable homicide involvingblacks and the racial similarity betweenpersons arrested by police and felonskilled by police."

    I think if you look globally, high crime is almost always associated with population density of poor/uneducated urban areas. I'd like to see a study that controls for that, because I'd suggest police are an attempt to deal with the problem much more so than the cause of the problem. More police in crime dense areas are going to lead to more arrests. Those areas, in the US, tend to be disproportionately black and hispanic.
  • O-Trap
    gut;1877265 wrote:Cops make mistakes. The most egregious being the NRA guy sitting in his car, and then that woman that called in to report a rape(?). Oddly we heard very little about those two instances. We all know better than to use a few bad examples to generalize an entire group of people :)
    Of course. The majority of any profession is probably not interested in violent victimization, unless violent victimization is in the job description (hit-for-hire, knee-capper, something else sketchy).

    However, I would submit that the mere fact that a belief in a "blue wall of silence" exists should lead us to ask why that is so.

    While there are certainly fools who wish to paint all police as evil, most are not protesting all police, but merely violent police or those who are quick to place the blame for any such shooting on the one being shot.

    It reminds me a little of this:

    [video=youtube;hnhc2Dk-UE0][/video]
    gut;1877265 wrote:The problem is, all this seems to have been kicked off around phony narratives with Trevon Martin and Michael Brown (both of whom had a very significant role to play in getting themselves shot). And while there is injustice, when THAT is your motivation and inspiration it's hard to take these people seriously.
    Well, the Martin case wasn't really an example of that, as Zimmerman wasn't an officer. I agree that the topic of racially-driven homicides and racial discrepancies as they pertain to police shootings can go hand-in-hand during certain discussions, but if the topic explicitly involves police, I'm not sure the Martin shooting fits in that discussion.

    Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown are often referenced, definitely, and I agree that it at least appears as though the kids were involved somehow (though it's hard to determine the details surrounding the scuffle in Martin's case). In hindsight, the Martin shooting being continually brought up is probably exacerbated by the fact that Zimmerman seems like a shitty person in general, based on subsequent events. But even if those aren't viable examples, they did draw attention to the matter of excessive use of force, particularly lethal force, from police.
    gut;1877265 wrote:Cops have their own set of issues to deal with. But I don't think they are a primary cause, or even a significant one, with respect to the issue of justice and fairness. To focus marches and protests on the cops just shows, once again, how stupid the average American is, chasing after whatever shiny ball their leaders throw.
    I don't think that's true (well, okay, I'll give you that the average American ... nay, the average person ... is quick to follow the shiny new object), but only because I think police carry a nuance that isn't reflected in most other suggested elements of injustice or inequality: authority.

    Justice and authority are supposed to blind, and authority figures in the US are supposed to be the 'good guys', the people you trust in crisis. So, if there are people within the ranks of authority who either abuse their power or bring prejudices into the position that prevents them from serving and protecting with the same level of competence toward everyone, then there's a problem at the level of institutional authority, even if the number of people actually involved is small.

    Are a lot of the people showing outrage mostly doing it from an uninformed position? Eh, probably. They're mad because they've heard a slanted narrative from someone else who's already mad. But that doesn't mean that the position or sense of injustice is itself unwarranted or unworthy of being addressed.
  • O-Trap
    gut;1877270 wrote:I think if you look globally, high crime is almost always associated with population density of poor/uneducated urban areas. I'd like to see a study that controls for that, because I'd suggest police are an attempt to deal with the problem much more so than the cause of the problem. More police in crime dense areas are going to lead to more arrests. Those areas, in the US, tend to be disproportionately black and hispanic.
    That's true, and it's actually what causes me to think that population density has more to do with violence than most other variables. When you bump into more people, you're bound to run into more problems with people.

    I'd agree that it would be helpful to extrapolate those out.

    I will say this: Living as a white, fairly well-educated guy in an area with mostly white police officers, even when my quadrant of the neighborhood is about 89% black, I've seen enough, and been included in enough, interactions with the police here to see the difference in how they treat me versus how they treat my neighbors. This is anecdotal, of course, and it's not sufficient to claim consistency at a nationwide level, but it's enough to tell me it's a plausible scenario and worth looking into.
  • gut
    O-Trap;1877275 wrote:But that doesn't mean that the position or sense of injustice is itself unwarranted or unworthy of being addressed.
    That's really not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying cops are an easy target for the media, politicians and others because, for the most part, it's a distraction from the fundamental underlying issues for which people have no real solutions. Particularly for federal/state officials they can come in, crack the whip and then take credit or assign blame for someone else having to fix the issue (with respect to police).
  • Zunardo
    O-Trap;1877276 wrote:I will say this: Living as a white, fairly well-educated guy in an area with mostly white police officers, even when my quadrant of the neighborhood is about 89% black, I've seen enough, and been included in enough, interactions with the police here to see the difference in how they treat me versus how they treat my neighbors. This is anecdotal, of course, and it's not sufficient to claim consistency at a nationwide level, but it's enough to tell me it's a plausible scenario and worth looking into.
    1. Have you seen enough and included enough to see the difference between how you treat the police versus how your neighbors treat the police?

    2. If it were possible to hazard an educated guess, do you think there would be any change in the interactions, both with you and your neighbors, if the police officers in your area were predominantly black?