Breaking down Bernie's plan
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ZWICK 4 PREZ
you put the words there, palrrfan;1786714 wrote:Stop putting words in my mouth...you and people like you need to listen...this has nothing to do with the Rich! I don't care if a rich person is lazy. I care if the poor person is lazy. Get to work and work hard, take the opportunity to be good at your job and move up. Minimum wage is not a career, work more than one job. Many people have done this. Being rich is not to be like Trump it is to be able to support your family and take care of your responsibilities. There are so many jobs out there to be had but most can't be filled because the "poor people" that need the job can't pass a drug test! That is not the rich keeping the poor down it is the poor being stupid!
rrfan;1786679 wrote:Wealth flow to those that bust their ass for it everyday. Not the lazy ones that sit back and expect money to be given to them for being alive. -
BR1986FB
Amen!rrfan;1786714 wrote:Stop putting words in my mouth...you and people like you need to listen...this has nothing to do with the Rich! I don't care if a rich person is lazy. I care if the poor person is lazy. Get to work and work hard, take the opportunity to be good at your job and move up. Minimum wage is not a career, work more than one job. Many people have done this. Being rich is not to be like Trump it is to be able to support your family and take care of your responsibilities. There are so many jobs out there to be had but most can't be filled because the "poor people" that need the job can't pass a drug test! That is not the rich keeping the poor down it is the poor being stupid!
I posted comments awhile back about companies in an industry that I work in that are dying for technicians. Saw stats yesterday that there are roughly 300,000 available service technician positions available nationally that pay right around $50k. And the BEST part? FREE EDUCATION !!!!!!! These companies, for the most part, will PAY for your classes to learn the trade they are so desperate. But will the check collectors go after this type of work? Nah....easier to just suck off the teet of the workers. -
rrfan
Tell me what part of this is incorrect...again you are worried about the "rich". Stop it. Worry about the ones that live on the government and expect more and more. The ones to not want to work but expect it to be given. This is not about all poor people either. Some take assistance work to get off of it and do. However, far to many stay there for ever.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1786718 wrote:you put the words there, pal -
jmog
You can do it isadore, admit when you are wrong.isadore;1786706 wrote:gosh a ruddies your unbelievable stupidity marches on and on. Millions wanting to come to those nations from around the world. -
rrfan
Exactly!!!!BR1986FB;1786720 wrote:Amen!
I posted comments awhile back about companies in an industry that I work in that are dying for technicians. Saw stats yesterday that there are roughly 300,000 available service technician positions available nationally that pay right around $50k. And the BEST part? FREE EDUCATION !!!!!!! These companies, for the most part, will PAY for your classes to learn the trade they are so desperate. But will the check collectors go after this type of work? Nah....easier to just suck off the teet of the workers. -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
Uh the part that its a stupid generalization that's not true? There's lazy rich people and there's hard working poor people.rrfan;1786722 wrote:Tell me what part of this is incorrect...again you are worried about the "rich". Stop it. Worry about the ones that live on the government and expect more and more. The ones to not want to work but expect it to be given. This is not about all poor people either. Some take assistance work to get off of it and do. However, far to many stay there for ever.
Come on man.. it takes a bit of effort I know.. but lets think a little beyond ridiculous generalizations. -
O-Trap
Apologies. I didn't intend to imply that it negated anything. I only conveyed why they're not a societal problem. An individual has made a free-will choice to essentially cover their lifestyle, including if it is a lazy one. They can still be complete pieces of shit, but nobody is being forced to carry any of their weight based on their choice to be a piece of shit.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1786703 wrote:doesn't negate generalizations that they're not lazy because the'yre rich.
The generalities are not exhaustive, but they don't exist without a reason. That reason is largely a misunderstood one, I think, but it exists nonetheless.
I hope that those who don't abuse the system will, at some point, become a more vocal indictment against those who do, because those who do abuse the system contribute to an illegitimate stigma that honest, hard-working people have to deal with. However, those who aren't poor also need to understand that this problem is more complex than just a solitary character flaw (laziness) dictating someone's financial well-being. -
sleeper
You don't think its correlated? It's certainly not an absolute statement but to say its not correlated is rather ignorant.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1786682 wrote:lol I've always loved this one. rich people are hard workers and poor people are lazy! -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
I think it goes waaaay beyond work ethic, yes.sleeper;1786739 wrote:You don't think its correlated? It's certainly not an absolute statement but to say its not correlated is rather ignorant. -
QuakerOatsOfficial Bernie Sanders drinking game:
Every time the Bernster mentions a free government program, chug somebody else's beer. -
sleeper
A lot of generalizations are backed by data.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1786741 wrote:I think it goes waaaay beyond work ethic, yes.
Is the statement "Adults like sex" a generalization? At what ratio do you finally stop and say "Don't generalize" vs. "Okay I accept this as fact"? 60/40? 80/20? 99/1?
The reality is, if you are rich, you've likely worked hard to acheive that wealth. Trust fund babies are an exception to this rule, not the rule. Same with poor people. Poor people who work hard exist, but if you are lazy you're likely not rich. -
sleeper
Also, thinking you work hard at Walmart stocking shelves is not reality. It's not hard work; its unskilled labor for a reason and its low paying for a reason.
Consulting a large M&A transaction between two companies IS hard work, skilled labor and is high paying for a reason.
Do liberals not see the difference? -
isadore
gosh a ruddies I guess I have been unable to cure your cognitive dissonance.jmog;1786723 wrote:You can do it isadore, admit when you are wrong. -
BR1986FB
There are going to be quite a few people in alcohol induced comas if they play that game.QuakerOats;1786743 wrote:Official Bernie Sanders drinking game:
Every time the Bernster mentions a free government program, chug somebody else's beer. -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
Id love to see data showing level of work ethic to income level lolsleeper;1786744 wrote:A lot of generalizations are backed by data.
Is the statement "Adults like sex" a generalization? At what ratio do you finally stop and say "Don't generalize" vs. "Okay I accept this as fact"? 60/40? 80/20? 99/1?
The reality is, if you are rich, you've likely worked hard to acheive that wealth. Trust fund babies are an exception to this rule, not the rule. Same with poor people. Poor people who work hard exist, but if you are lazy you're likely not rich. -
sleeper
You need data to see the difference in work ethic between your average doctor and a Walmart shelf stocker?ZWICK 4 PREZ;1786754 wrote:Id love to see data showing level of work ethic to income level lol
Liberals.
I'll also add that you entirely avoided the discussion I was trying to have and instead added a zero value snide comment. The reality is, its hard to engage in discussion with you when its much easier to call you stupid and ignore you. But as a liberal, I'm sure you are more interested in ignoring dissenting opinions rather than logically defend your positions. -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
lol the point was to show how ridiculous of a statement you made since there'd be no possible data for that.sleeper;1786763 wrote:You need data to see the difference in work ethic between your average doctor and a Walmart shelf stocker?
Liberals.
I'll also add that you entirely avoided the discussion I was trying to have and instead added a zero value snide comment. The reality is, its hard to engage in discussion with you when its much easier to call you stupid and ignore you. But as a liberal, I'm sure you are more interested in ignoring dissenting opinions rather than logically defend your positions. -
like_that
Considering the content in this thread from you alone, I am loling at you asking for data [emoji23].ZWICK 4 PREZ;1786775 wrote:lol the point was to show how ridiculous of a statement you made since there'd be no possible data for that. -
rrfan
http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/08/19/whats-the-difference-between-high-income-earners-and-low-income-earners/
This shows that nobody can pin point an exact cause, but many think one factor that plays a big part is those that work hard and make their own luck. They also talk about negotiating your salary. Maybe that is what all the burger flippers are doing trying to get minimum wage to 15 dollars an hour.... -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
I'm not asking for data. I'm saying it'd be stupid to say this could be backed up by data since there's no good metrics for measuring work ethic let alone a work ethic a wealth correlation.like_that;1786779 wrote:Considering the content in this thread from you alone, I am loling at you asking for data [emoji23]. -
QuakerOatssleeper;1786763 wrote:You need data to see the difference in work ethic between your average doctor and a Walmart shelf stocker?
Liberals.
I'll also add that you entirely avoided the discussion I was trying to have and instead added a zero value snide comment. The reality is, its hard to engage in discussion with you when its much easier to call you stupid and ignore you. But as a liberal, I'm sure you are more interested in ignoring dissenting opinions rather than logically defend your positions.
Actually they are more interested in shutting down dissenting opinions .......... -
sleeper
Does one need to quantify work ethic to know the difference between the work ethic of a CEO and a shelf stocker at Walmart?ZWICK 4 PREZ;1786793 wrote:I'm not asking for data. I'm saying it'd be stupid to say this could be backed up by data since there's no good metrics for measuring work ethic let alone a work ethic a wealth correlation.
Work ethic is subjective, but with a little logic its easy to see the difference. Looking forward to your future requests for data while providing none yourself, nor any semblance of real world logic to support your statements. Continue to believe that poor people work just as hard as your average doctor or CEO. It's completely disingenuous and downright obtuse to pretend there is no correlation between work ethic and wealth. -
FatHobbit
I'm going to start by saying I don't have a solution. I definitely don't think the answer is taking money from people who worked for it and giving it to people who didn't. But I definitely know quite a few uneducated people that work really hard and they will never get ahead because of the choices they made or choices that were made for them when they were young.
My dad is very blue collar and he did not support or encourage me getting an education when I was younger. I'm lucky that my mom valued education and was a very good role model for me growing up. My parents did not pay for my education. My dad thought I was wasting money and I should have joined the army. I think there are many kids who don't understand how important it is, until it's too late. I paid for my own school and it took me 8 years to get a bachelor's degree. It was a struggle at times and it seems like more luck than skill that I made it through. I even dropped out at one point and only went back because of an ex girlfriend.
I have volunteered for at risk kids, and most of them had no shot at going to college. They weren't dumb. Most of the time all I did was ask them if they did their homework and then tell them to do it. But they didn't have role models and I doubt very much that one of them ever made it to college.
I have a 19 year old relative that I just found out is in prison for armed robbery. I searched for his mom online and found 5 different mugshots. That kid never had a chance. That could have easily been me if wouldn't have had good role models growing up.
Giving people money or things is not the answer. If you had given my relatives mom money, I'm sure she would have blown it on drugs and his dad was never around.
People want to blame teachers for the failures of the education system but I personally think the problem starts at home. When parents suck, the kids don't know any better and then they grow into adults who don't know any better and they have more kids that never have a chance. -
BR1986FB
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rrfan
Very well said...I also know kids that had nothing but the only thing they knew is they wanted something. They found a way to get there. A kid I grew up with had a dirt floor in his house growing up and his parents were not worth anything. In and out of trouble. He is a successful teacher and coach and makes a positive difference in kids life everyday. Lives in a nice house, a beautiful wife and two great kids. The difference for him was he would not accept that his parents life was going to be his.FatHobbit;1786818 wrote:I'm going to start by saying I don't have a solution. I definitely don't think the answer is taking money from people who worked for it and giving it to people who didn't. But I definitely know quite a few uneducated people that work really hard and they will never get ahead because of the choices they made or choices that were made for them when they were young.
My dad is very blue collar and he did not support or encourage me getting an education when I was younger. I'm lucky that my mom valued education and was a very good role model for me growing up. My parents did not pay for my education. My dad thought I was wasting money and I should have joined the army. I think there are many kids who don't understand how important it is, until it's too late. I paid for my own school and it took me 8 years to get a bachelor's degree. It was a struggle at times and it seems like more luck than skill that I made it through. I even dropped out at one point and only went back because of an ex girlfriend.
I have volunteered for at risk kids, and most of them had no shot at going to college. They weren't dumb. Most of the time all I did was ask them if they did their homework and then tell them to do it. But they didn't have role models and I doubt very much that one of them ever made it to college.
I have a 19 year old relative that I just found out is in prison for armed robbery. I searched for his mom online and found 5 different mugshots. That kid never had a chance. That could have easily been me if wouldn't have had good role models growing up.
Giving people money or things is not the answer. If you had given my relatives mom money, I'm sure she would have blown it on drugs and his dad was never around.
People want to blame teachers for the failures of the education system but I personally think the problem starts at home. When parents suck, the kids don't know any better and then they grow into adults who don't know any better and they have more kids that never have a chance.