Simplest reason poor are poor

• Al Bundy

  isadore;1586297 wrote:no some would go to free post secondary vocational school

  Why not just put the vocational programs back into the high schools for students who want that track?
• isadore

  Al Bundy;1586344 wrote:Why not just put the vocational programs back into the high schools for students who want that track?

  Just as to be truly qualified by academic training, the education must continue beyond high school, the same is true for vocational training. And also it would be available for so many losing their jobs because of structural changes in their job area. Post secondary academic or vocational training can allow them true opportunity.
• Tiernan

  Why not make it illegal for individuals making less than $25k / yr to have children? I'd love to see a politician with the balls to stand up and say shit like that.
• isadore

  Tiernan;1587097 wrote:Why not make it illegal for individuals making less than $25k / yr to have children? I'd love to see a politician with the balls to stand up and say shit like that.

  gosh a ruddies if the participants on the politics forum were the electorate, that opinion would get a politician elected overwhelmingly, they really hate the poor.
• QuakerOats

  How 1 franchisee built an empire from a single Burger King
  Milwaukee-based quickservice franchisee Valerie Daniels-Carter left a banking career 30 years ago to open her first Burger King restaurant with brother John Daniels Jr. Today, V&J Holdings operates 38 Burger Kings, 60-plus Pizza Huts, and several other concepts, including Auntie Anne's, The Coffee Beanery, Haagen-Dazs and My Yo My! frozen yogurt. "As a young African-American female getting into the restaurant franchise business, I didn't see obstacles as challenges, but as opportunities to step up and step forward," she says. Milwaukee Journal Sentinel (tiered subscription model) (3/3)
  
  
  
  
  
  That is all anyone needs to know! Anyone can succeed in this country, as long as they want to be responsible and apply themselves. I rest my case.
• rrfan

  

  isodore stop with the gosh all the time...it is annoying.
• isadore

  QuakerOats;1587170 wrote:How 1 franchisee built an empire from a single Burger King
  Milwaukee-based quickservice franchisee Valerie Daniels-Carter left a banking career 30 years ago to open her first Burger King restaurant with brother John Daniels Jr. Today, V&J Holdings operates 38 Burger Kings, 60-plus Pizza Huts, and several other concepts, including Auntie Anne's, The Coffee Beanery, Haagen-Dazs and My Yo My! frozen yogurt. "As a young African-American female getting into the restaurant franchise business, I didn't see obstacles as challenges, but as opportunities to step up and step forward," she says. Milwaukee Journal Sentinel (tiered subscription model) (3/3)
  
  
  
  
  
  That is all anyone needs to know! Anyone can succeed in this country, as long as they want to be responsible and apply themselves. I rest my case.

  gosh a ruddies yes before she got her franchise she had nothing but a BA from Lincoln University, MBA from Cardinal Stritch College and a career in banking
  just like all folks trying to rise from poverty.
  ege.
• isadore

  rrfan;1587176 wrote:isodore stop with the gosh all the time...it is annoying.

  golly I am sorry to hear that.
• WebFire

  isadore;1587191 wrote:gosh a ruddies yes before she got her franchise she had nothing but a BA from Lincoln University, MBA from Cardinal Stritch College and a career in banking
  just like all folks trying to rise from poverty.
  ege.

  Oh, you mean she had to work had for what she has? What a concept!
• Classyposter58

  

  It's disgusting to see it first hand. Just had a kid move into our apartment, 18 and without a high school diploma but because of individual leases we had no say. Kid receives $750 a month from the government because he can't get a job due to disabilities, those being severe anxiety. It's a fucking joke, he sits here and plays that stupid Dungeons and Dragons game on the PS3 all day and makes a chunk of change any college student would enjoy and he could easily buck up take the meds and work a basic job. I hate people who blame something else for their own lack of wealth
• BoatShoes

  WebFire;1587204 wrote:Oh, you mean she had to work had for what she has? What a concept!

  Even supposing that all U.S. citizens were maximally talented and maximally educated and as hard working and ambitious as a good conservative there are still not enough jobs for the amount of people who would like to work. Capitalist economies, for all of their amazing feats and wealth creation, consistently fail to provide enough work opportunities for all citizens. What is the conservative movement's answer to this persistent problem? Even during the industrial revolution when there was no central banking, low taxes, no regulations, child labor, etc. there was persistent and widespread periods of mass unemployment.
  
  You can't be a rugged individualist and self-reliant if can't get a job and you can't sell your labor to be productive. Yet, even if there were zero lazy people there would still be millions of Americans who cannot get jobs over the majority of the business cycle.
  
  This graph is the unemployed + workers who have given up looking for work and aren't counted in the labor force but would like a job if offered + people who are stuck in part time jobs but want to work full time.
  
  
  
  
  Not even at the end of the last great boom before the early 2000's recession, when they first started tracking job openings, was there enough work for everybody.
• BoatShoes

  Classyposter58;1587208 wrote:It's disgusting to see it first hand. Just had a kid move into our apartment, 18 and without a high school diploma but because of individual leases we had no say. Kid receives $750 a month from the government because he can't get a job due to disabilities, those being severe anxiety. It's a fucking joke, he sits here and plays that stupid Dungeons and Dragons game on the PS3 all day and makes a chunk of change any college student would enjoy and he could easily buck up take the meds and work a basic job. I hate people who blame something else for their own lack of wealth

  There are currently 24 million people who would like a full time job but there are only 4 million job openings. Let's suppose we eliminate disability for people with "anxiety". Those people will probably now be in the labor force looking for a job because they will either starve or work. Problem is, eliminating those disability payments will reduce aggregate demand and probably mean more jobs lost and less hiring.
  
  So what to do.
  
  We now have even more than 24 million people looking for work and even less than 4 million available job openings.
  
  This is true even if there were not any lazy whiners who would rather lay around playing PS3. This is true even if everyone were a maximally motivated and honest conservative.
• WebFire

  BoatShoes;1587213 wrote:Even supposing that all U.S. citizens were maximally talented and maximally educated and as hard working and ambitious as a good conservative there are still not enough jobs for the amount of people who would like to work. Capitalist economies, for all of their amazing feats and wealth creation, consistently fail to provide enough work opportunities for all citizens. What is the conservative movement's answer to this persistent problem? Even during the industrial revolution when there was no central banking, low taxes, no regulations, child labor, etc. there was persistent and widespread periods of mass unemployment.
  
  You can't be a rugged individualist and self-reliant and can't get a job. Yet, even if there were zero lazy people there would still be millions of Americans who cannot get jobs over the majority of the business cycle.
  
  This graph is the unemployed + workers who have given up looking for work and aren't counted in the labor force but would like a job if offered + people who are stuck in part time jobs but want to work full time.
  
  
  
  
  Not even at the end of the last great boom before the early 2000's recession, when they first started tracking job openings, was there enough work for everybody.

  This is all correct. Which is why I laugh at free college for everyone with no qualifying for admission, which many believe we should have. Because not everyone can be a doctor.
  
  Also, there will ALWAYS be people unwilling to work hard and will settle for poverty. So they naturally fill the unemployment numbers. Rarely does someone who works hard to have a good job, not have a decent job.
• BoatShoes

  WebFire;1587218 wrote:This is all correct. Which is why I laugh at free college for everyone with no qualifying for admission, which many believe we should have. Because not everyone can be a doctor.
  
  Also, there will ALWAYS be people unwilling to work hard and will settle for poverty. So they naturally fill the unemployment numbers. Rarely does someone who works hard to have a good job, not have a decent job.

  You're assuming that people that are unemployed are lazy. The lazy people are not even counted in the numbers that I provided above. They are not counted in the unemployment numbers. They are considered "not part of the labor force" as they are not even looking for work and are firmly entrenched in the welfare state.
  
  We're talking about 24 million people who would like to sell their labor and work at least 40 hours a week and they cannot.
  
  The so-called lazy moochers on food stamps, WIC, section 8 and disability that want to play vidja games because of "anxiety" and that don't want to work are not even represented in that graph.
• WebFire

  BoatShoes;1587223 wrote:You're assuming that people that are unemployed are lazy. The lazy people are not even counted in the numbers that I provided above. They are not counted in the unemployment numbers. They are considered "not part of the labor force" as they are not even looking for work and are firmly entrenched in the welfare state.
  
  We're talking about 24 million people who would like to sell their labor and work at least 40 hours a week and they cannot.
  
  The so-called lazy moochers on food stamps, WIC, section 8 and disability that want to play vidja games because of "anxiety" and that don't want to work are not even represented in that graph.

  Let's not pretend that 24 million are wanting to work hard and make a better life for themselves. Many of them are only doing the minimum to get by, or to qualify for the unemployment benefits. If you aren't doing anything to make your self better, you are not any better than the ones that gave up.
• sleeper

  

  The easiest way to find out if the 24 million are willing to work hard is to cut welfare benefits to zero and get rid of the minimum wage. If they don't work, they don't eat. That's all the motivation these poor and stupid people need.
• BoatShoes

  WebFire;1587225 wrote:Let's not pretend that 24 million are wanting to work hard and make a better life for themselves. Many of them are only doing the minimum to get by, or to qualify for the unemployment benefits. If you aren't doing anything to make your self better, you are not any better than the ones that gave up.

  This is a perfect example of avoiding the problem with an excuse for which you have no evidence. But let's accept your assertion as true. What do you say, let's grant that 12 million of that 24 million do not actually want to work hard. That is 12 million people who want to work full time and there is only a job (not even a full time job) available for a third of them.
• BoatShoes

  sleeper;1587226 wrote:The easiest way to find out if the 24 million are willing to work hard is to cut welfare benefits to zero and get rid of the minimum wage. If they don't work, they don't eat. That's all the motivation these poor and stupid people need.

  And then you will find out that it wasn't a problem of motivation and that 24 million people out of work and unable to get dollars in any fashion will take to the streets and to crime and you'll get Ukraine in downtown New York. That is when real communists and real leftists gain power.
  
  The threat of that happening is why Otto Von Bismarck, a conservative, created the welfare state in the first place. Pragmatic Capitalism is better than having some form of laissez-faire capitalism overrun by a bunch of communists.
• Classyposter58

  

  sleeper;1587226 wrote:The easiest way to find out if the 24 million are willing to work hard is to cut welfare benefits to zero and get rid of the minimum wage. If they don't work, they don't eat. That's all the motivation these poor and stupid people need.

  Minimum wage actually takes jobs away from impoverished people as it can affect the freedom of the market by imposing a price floor essentially
• WebFire

  BoatShoes;1587231 wrote:This is a perfect example of avoiding the problem with an excuse for which you have no evidence. But let's accept your assertion as true. What do you say, let's grant that 12 million of that 24 million do not actually want to work hard. That is 12 million people who want to work full time and there is only a job (not even a full time job) available for a third of them.

  Oh, I'm sorry. But I don't believe I have any less proof that you do that the 24 million do want to work. Or 12 million. Right?
• QuakerOats

  BoatShoes;1587213 wrote:Even supposing that all U.S. citizens were maximally talented and maximally educated and as hard working and ambitious as a good conservative there are still not enough jobs for the amount of people who would like to work. Capitalist economies, for all of their amazing feats and wealth creation, consistently fail to provide enough work opportunities for all citizens.

  
  No, they do not fail to consistently provide enough work opportunities. There are millions of opportunities available, and there are millions more to be created, which happens in a free market society. Even as recent as the '00's unemployment was 4-5%, and we know full employment is 2-3%, hence 98% of the people had work, and there will always be an amount between jobs. Of course, we had a republican president and some semblance of policy that encouraged work; the opposite is true today. This is why I continue to state the obvious: you cannot govern a capitalist economy with marxist policy edicts.
  
  You continue to take shots at capitalism, which has lifted more people WORLDWIDE out of poverty than any model in history. I am curious as to why you are in bed with the marxists now running much of the federal government.
• WebFire

  BoatShoes;1587231 wrote:This is a perfect example of avoiding the problem with an excuse for which you have no evidence. But let's accept your assertion as true. What do you say, let's grant that 12 million of that 24 million do not actually want to work hard. That is 12 million people who want to work full time and there is only a job (not even a full time job) available for a third of them.

  How do you achieve 100% employment?
• sleeper

  

  BoatShoes;1587234 wrote:And then you will find out that it wasn't a problem of motivation and that 24 million people out of work and unable to get dollars in any fashion will take to the streets and to crime and you'll get Ukraine in downtown New York. That is when real communists and real leftists gain power.
  
  The threat of that happening is why Otto Von Bismarck, a conservative, created the welfare state in the first place. Pragmatic Capitalism is better than having some form of laissez-faire capitalism overrun by a bunch of communists.

  They are welcome to move where their inputs will be rewarded with the outputs that are necessary to feed themselves. It's a global economy. If they choose to stay in this country and commit crimes, we do have a system already in place to punish the rule violators. Perhaps, with enough surging demand for prisons due to the crimes being committed, the free market will create jobs in the justice arena.
  
  The free market solves everything; those who cry deserve what they get.
• sleeper

  

  Classyposter58;1587241 wrote:Minimum wage actually takes jobs away from impoverished people as it can affect the freedom of the market by imposing a price floor essentially

  I said "get rid" of the minimum wage. I think you are trying to agree with me.
• BoatShoes

  These are the so-called M00chers. Able-bodied men of working age who are not even looking for work. As far as I know there is not statistic that keeps track of how many of these men are in degree program but they are part of this number. Yet, even if they were, we don't have enough jobs being produced for them to take!!! What does the conservative movement propose we do in the face of that depressing reality? Nothing but derp about virtue and work ethic!
  
  
  
  
  Even if we accept that every one of these able bodied men were to suddenly watch Fox News and become a vigorous, hard working Conservative and join the labor force...there is no demand for their labor.