Simplest reason poor are poor

• isadore

  Belly35;1584832 wrote:Time... Time limit is the motivator
  When my mom and I lived on welfare, public housing project she set a time (goal) that we would move from this situation to a better life.
  Many on welfare, public housing have no aspiration to improve their situation because they have a crutch with no obligations to keep the benefits … with not “time restrictions”
  
  Let give the needy the support but with the goal to achieve dependency .. “Time Limit”
  
  Time to get a job, time to get a education or training, to move to a better job location, time to straighten their lives, time to evaluate their decision, time to understand that more babies does not increase the time for achieving the goal of bettering yourself. …. The poor got 5 or 6 years to get off welfare and move out of public housing and 1 year after that of the government paying their utilities. …. Have a good life
  
  If the habitual poor choose to squander this opportunity … sorry they are on their own now…
  
  Solution you’ll lose the kids … the kids will be place in a government reform school (cheaper than a life time of entitlement programs) where they will be given care, medical attention, a education, structure, discipline and potential future more that what their dead beat habitual loser parent could offer.
  My estimate is that 25 years down the road … poverty will drop, higher standard of society will develop, less crime, drop out rate will fall, teen pregnant drop, unwed poor pregnant decline and government welfare programs cost will begin dropping.
  
  Hope this helps…

  could anything be more descriptive of the philosophy backing this program than children would be placed in a reform school, for no crime but being born poor. unbelievable.
• isadore

  Al Bundy;1584996 wrote:isadore, why do you think you are poor?

  I am not.
• isadore

  Con_Alma;1584935 wrote:Business chose to offer it as part of compensation. That doesn't put the onus on them to provide it. ...at least until the affordable care act. In addition, it's not the only means of paying for medical services. It's just one.

  they chose to put the onus on themselves by providing the benefit for generations.
• Al Bundy

  isadore;1584998 wrote:I am not.

  Then, why are you not poor? Did you inherit money or did you work for your money?
• WebFire

  isadore;1584804 wrote:and what do you want to do with their kids
  
  oh that's right
  back to the factories and the mines

  You mean like find a babysitter? Where do mines and factories come in?
• isadore

  WebFire;1585027 wrote:You mean like find a babysitter? Where do mines and factories come in?

  right, minimum wage workers have a lot of bucks to pay babysitters. Of course we could use the belly method and ship them all to reform school. Or using your push for a work ethic send them into sweat shops
• isadore

  Al Bundy;1585020 wrote:Then, why are you not poor? Did you inherit money or did you work for your money?

  gosh I grew up into a time when unions had won factory workers like my dad, a livable wage Before union busting Reaganomics took full effect. So I was able to get a job at 13 to save for college.
• Al Bundy

  isadore;1585099 wrote:gosh I grew up into a time when unions had won factory workers like my dad, a livable wage Before union busting Reaganomics took full effect. So I was able to get a job at 13 to save for college.

  Black Monday hit Ohio in 1977. It was 3.5 years before Reagan became president.
• WebFire

  isadore;1585099 wrote:gosh I grew up into a time when unions had won factory workers like my dad, a livable wage Before union busting Reaganomics took full effect. So I was able to get a job at 13 to save for college.

  Which is why our manufacturing declined. Overpaid factory workers drove up the price of American goods.
• WebFire

  isadore;1585092 wrote:right, minimum wage workers have a lot of bucks to pay babysitters. Of course we could use the belly method and ship them all to reform school. Or using your push for a work ethic send them into sweat shops

  I see. So they should continue on welfare because they cannot find babysitters. Funny that I rarely pay for a babysitter, and my wife and I both work.
• isadore

  Al Bundy;1585107 wrote:Black Monday hit Ohio in 1977. It was 3.5 years before Reagan became president.

  
• isadore

  WebFire;1585144 wrote:I see. So they should continue on welfare because they cannot find babysitters. Funny that I rarely pay for a babysitter, and my wife and I both work.

  personal anecdotal evidence always of such great value, especially when your situation is compared to the poor single mothers and their families who make up the largest portion of the welfare recipients.
• isadore

  WebFire;1585143 wrote:Which is why our manufacturing declined. Overpaid factory workers drove up the price of American goods.

  gosh hardly a surprise that you would consider fair pay for workers overpayment. A government that truly serves its people not corporate interests would have saved those jobs and by doing that offered a real path for many out of poverty.
• WebFire

  isadore;1585152 wrote:gosh hardly a surprise that you would consider fair pay for workers overpayment. A government that truly serves its people not corporate interests would have saved those jobs and by doing that offered a real path for many out of poverty.

  Artificial inflation of wages is not fair pay.
• WebFire

  isadore;1585151 wrote:personal anecdotal evidence always of such great value, especially when your situation is compared to the poor single mothers and their families who make up the largest portion of the welfare recipients.

  I was raised by a single mom for a long time. She worked full time. She found a way to get it done, instead of sitting around collecting welfare. Now she has a nice career and will retire happily. You make your own bed.
• BoatShoes

  WebFire;1585143 wrote:Which is why our manufacturing declined. Overpaid factory workers drove up the price of American goods.

  Incorrect. It is all about exchange rates.
• isadore

  WebFire;1585158 wrote:Artificial inflation of wages is not fair pay.

  when a living wage for a worker is not fair pay then our economic\ political system has failed.
  
  
• isadore

  WebFire;1585159 wrote:I was raised by a single mom for a long time. She worked full time. She found a way to get it done, instead of sitting around collecting welfare. Now she has a nice career and will retire happily. You make your own bed.

  gosh another of the continuing rants on this forum I got mine, screw you.
  we would have to compare everything about your background
  her education, assets, work history, family support to start with.
• sleeper

  

  isadore;1585151 wrote:personal anecdotal evidence always of such great value, especially when your situation is compared to the poor single mothers and their families who make up the largest portion of the welfare recipients.

  Who's choice to have the child?
• BoatShoes

  WebFire;1585158 wrote:Artificial inflation of wages is not fair pay.

  Do you apply this argument to lawyers and doctors who are protected by government created licensure requirements? Do you apply this argument to people who's wages and incomes are protected by government granted patent monopolies? Etc. Etc.
• Con_Alma

  BoatShoes;1585193 wrote:Do you apply this argument to lawyers and doctors who are protected by government created licensure requirements? Do you apply this argument to people who's wages and incomes are protected by government granted patent monopolies? Etc. Etc.

  I don't but the correlation isn't exact in some of the examples you've provided. Monopolies should not be enabled to resulting in artificially inflated wages. I am opposed to that. Patents, however, along with all intellectual property do not belong to the economy or the country but rather the individual or company. I would entertain arguments with regard to time length a patent should be protected but that's an objective position.
• Con_Alma

  isadore;1584999 wrote:they chose to put the onus on themselves by providing the benefit for generations.

  It was a benefit not an obligation. It is the people who became dependent upon it.
• BoatShoes

  Con_Alma;1585197 wrote:I don't but the correlation isn't exact in some of the examples you've provided. Monopolies should not be enabled to resulting in artificially inflated wages. I am opposed to that. Patents, however, along with all intellectual property do not belong to the economy or the country but rather the individual or company. I would entertain arguments with regard to time length a patent should be protected but that's an objective position.

  They are all market interventions by the government that materially affect the bargaining power of players in the economy. A person can oppose any of them or all of the them but not on the grounds that they "artificial inflation" of wages unless they are an anarcho-capitalist. Most people are not. Most people are perfectly fine with license requirements for Doctors that artificially inflate the wages of doctors.
• rrfan

  

  isadore;1585152 wrote:gosh hardly a surprise that you would consider fair pay for workers overpayment. A government that truly serves its people not corporate interests would have saved those jobs and by doing that offered a real path for many out of poverty.

  gosh sounds like you think the government should take care of everything...gosh wait they are already paying for all these people's expenses...gosh maybe they should have to work hard and earn things like the rest of us...gosh that would require them to not sit on there fat butt all day at home...gosh that would be to hard and they would not like it...gosh give them an Obama phone because everyone needs a cell phone...Shut up with that crap. You are allowing this to continue!
• BoatShoes

  rrfan;1585223 wrote:gosh sounds like you think the government should take care of everything...gosh wait they are already paying for all these people's expenses...gosh maybe they should have to work hard and earn things like the rest of us...gosh that would require them to not sit on there fat butt all day at home...gosh that would be to hard and they would not like it...gosh give them an Obama phone because everyone needs a cell phone...Shut up with that crap. You are allowing this to continue!

  I agree with you. But herein lies the problem.
  
  
  
  Capitalist economies consistently fail to have enough paid work for all citizens who are willing and able to work. They consistently have problems with unemployment. Unemployment as we understand it, did not exist until the advent of Capitalism.
  
  So, how does a pragmatic government with a capitalist economy respond to this conundrum? 1). We could provide welfare to the unemployed thinking that it will be temporary until they join the labor force or 2). Create a Reserve Buffer Stock of Public Servants that work for society while not employed in the private economy.
  
  We've tried 1. and it has been a miserable failure. Businesses don't hire the unemployed. They'd rather poach people from other firms. And, the unemployed lose their skills, get discouraged and become entrenched in the safety of social insurance.
  
  Let's try #2.
  
  Eliminate all 79 Means Tested Welfare Programs and replace it with a Job Guarantee and a Universal Worker's Income of $12,000 per year paid to all citizens who work tax free...rich and poor.
  
  It would be less expensive than our society currently spends on Public Welfare Programs and private charity for the poor which amount to 15% of GDP combined.