Simplest reason poor are poor

• isadore

  WebFire;1584688 wrote:I think that is the point everyone is making, isn't it? That government got involved and made being poor easy with not much consequence.

  you would prefer to see poor families suffer from lack of food, clothing, shelter and healthcare?
• rrfan

  

  isadore;1584539 wrote:before the federal government took action
  1. The poverty rate was much higher
  2. The suffering of the poor was much greater

  They suffer until they get motivated to change it. Can't get up at 11:00 am, smoke a pack of Cigs, play some cards, watch some TV....and expect to get a job. I am not saying that government can't help some, but to many sandbaggers that have no motivation to do anything in life. I am tired of paying for those people!
• isadore

  rrfan;1584696 wrote:They suffer until they get motivated to change it. Can't get up at 11:00 am, smoke a pack of Cigs, play some cards, watch some TV....and expect to get a job. I am not saying that government can't help some, but to many sandbaggers that have no motivation to do anything in life. I am tired of paying for those people!

  most of "those people" on tanf are children. let them sandbagging kids suffer.
• rrfan

  

  isadore;1584704 wrote:most of "those people" on tanf are children. let them sandbagging kids suffer.

  That is BS and you know it!
• Devils Advocate

  

  rrfan;1584707 wrote:That is BS and you know it!

  Not really. One welfare momma that has 4 kids with 4 different daddies make up a 4-1 child v parent ratio.
  
  Oh and isatard, If the parents at least make the effort to send the kids to school. they will at least get 2 meals a day.
  They might be hungry, but they won't starve.
• isadore

  rrfan;1584707 wrote:That is BS and you know it!

  "The average monthly number of TANF families was 1,847,155 in FY 2010. The estimated average monthly number of TANF recipients was 1,084,828 adults and 3,280,153 children."
  
  "Almost half of TANF families had no adult recipients. "
  
  http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofa/resource/character/fy2010/fy2010-chap10-ys-final
  
  
  
  gosh what a bunch of sandbaggin kids
• rrfan

  

  I never said the kids were sandbagging. So what motivates the adults to get off of the gravy train??? Serious question.
• WebFire

  isadore;1584695 wrote:you would prefer to see poor families suffer from lack of food, clothing, shelter and healthcare?

  Of course not. But gov't assistance should be just that...assistance. Temporary. Not a lifestyle.
• isadore

  rrfan;1584716 wrote:I never said the kids were sandbagging. So what motivates the adults to get off of the gravy train??? Serious question.

  A few examples of what would is
  
  1. Raise the minimum wage
  2. Provide free post secondary academic and vocational education
• rrfan

  

  isadore;1584720 wrote:A few examples of what would is
  
  1. Raise the minimum wage
  2. Provide free post secondary academic and vocational education

  So you want to raise the minimum wage and put people out of work??? Logical Obama Fan!
  
  
  They would have to be motivated to do any academic education...so what gets them motivated? That is the same question I asked you before if you care to answer it.
• isadore

  rrfan;1584721 wrote:So you want to raise the minimum wage and put people out of work??? Logical Obama Fan!
  
  
  They would have to be motivated to do any academic education...so what gets them motivated? That is the same question I asked you before if you care to answer it.

  you got people working full time now, whose incomes are so low it puts them below poverty level.
  and the government ends up paying the difference in SNAP, EIC and other benefits
  
  basically your taxes paying so that businesses can under pay their workers
  
  Raise the minimum wage
  
  The post secondary education offered would not just be academic but vocational.
  
  Those type programs would help lift many out of poverty.
• majorspark

  

  isadore;1584693 wrote:Businesses chose to take on that responsibility starting during WWII. They became the major provider of healthcare for working people as part of their terms of employment.

  
  A choice made because of the actions of the federal government. Wage freezes on employers during WWII accelerated the spread of employer provided health care. Employers unable by law to attract workers by paying more, were allowed to improve their benefit packages by adding health care.
• rrfan

  

  Let me ask you guys a question. If you are on government assistance and you work for current minimum wage do you need less assistance? YES! However, that is not what is happening to many. They take the assistance and sit at home, which is much more expensive.
  
  Your argument is they don't work because they don't make enough? How much do they make sitting at home?
• isadore

  majorspark;1584725 wrote:
  A choice made because of the actions of the federal government. Wage freezes on employers during WWII accelerated the spread of employer provided health care. Employers unable by law to attract workers by paying more, were allowed to improve their benefit packages by adding health care.

  a war time measure which they chose to continue to offer after price control were ended soon after WWII and which expanded to more and more business.
• isadore

  rrfan;1584728 wrote:Let me ask you guys a question. If you are on government assistance and you work for current minimum wage do you need less assistance? YES! However, that is not what is happening to many. They take the assistance and sit at home, which is much more expensive.
  
  Your argument is they don't work because they don't make enough? How much do they make sitting at home?

  gosh since most of the people we are talking about are children they are sitting at school.
  Or if they are too young at home, with no supervision if we are shipping their single mothers off to work. Because who was receiving the large bulk of tanf benefits children and their single mothers.
• rrfan

  

  isadore;1584730 wrote:gosh since most of the people we are talking about are children they are sitting at school.
  Or if they are too young at home, with no supervision if we are shipping their single mothers off to work.

  I am not talking about the children...you are. Those children came from the birds and the bees. Ask you dad to explain it to you. It is on the adults to raise the kids...if it is a single mother I would be for helping with child care FOR THEM TO GO TO WORK!
• isadore

  rrfan;1584733 wrote:I am not talking about the children...you are. Those children came from the birds and the bees. Ask you dad to explain it to you. It is on the adults to raise the kids...if it is a single mother I would be for helping with child care FOR THEM TO GO TO WORK!

  with adequate child care
  to a job that paid a living wage and\ or receiving a post secondary education that would provide a chance at upward social mobility.
• rrfan

  

  isadore you must be in politics because you never answer a question. Keep dodging and it will go away right Obama!
• Devils Advocate

  

  isadore;1584736 wrote:with adequate child care
  to a job that paid a living wage and\ or receiving a post secondary education that would provide a chance at upward social mobility.

  
• isadore

  rrfan;1584737 wrote:isadore you must be in politics because you never answer a question. Keep dodging and it will go away right Obama!

  you asked what would motivate them to leave I suggested those programs.
  some of other seem to think starving their children would work better.
  "the let them eat cake" view.
• isadore

  Devils Advocate;1584742 wrote:

  based on old wives' tale
  
  feed a cat
  starve a beaver
• rrfan

  

  isadore;1584743 wrote:you asked what would motivate them to leave I suggested those programs.
  some of other seem to thing starving their children would work better.
  "the let them eat cake" view.

  I never said anything about starving a Child! I asked what would motivate the "adults" to work. I think your suggestions would do nothing to get them to work. They would not be motivated to work when they can sit at home and still have what they need. It is a slippery slope but it is real.
  
  I have properties all over NE Ohio. I recently switched one of my duplex to low income housing. Government pays 90% of the rent each month and the renter has a Lincoln navigator SUV. HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?
• isadore

  rrfan;1584749 wrote:I never said anything about starving a Child! I asked what would motivate the "adults" to work. I think your suggestions would do nothing to get them to work. They would not be motivated to work when they can sit at home and still have what they need. It is a slippery slope but it is real.
  
  I have properties all over NE Ohio. I recently switched one of my duplex to low income housing. Government pays 90% of the rent each month and the renter has a Lincoln navigator SUV. HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?

  My suggestions have everything to do with getting them to go to work. They are offering them a true opportunity to better themselves and provide for their families.
  
  Lets see what do you want to do:
  throw them off government support, let them and their families sink or swim, eat or starve
  maybe just take their children away from them.
  but then they would just have more, well then maybe required abortions for them. US has had some experience with eugenics.
  
  
  Why don't you ask that person about his\her particular situation and then you can find out why?
• rrfan

  

  isadore;1584767 wrote:My suggestions have everything to do with getting them to go to work. They are offering them a true opportunity to better themselves and provide for their families.
  
  Lets see what do you want to do:
  throw them off government support, let them and their families sink or swim, eat or starve
  maybe just take their children away from them.
  but then they would just have more, well then maybe required abortions for them. US has had some experience with eugenics.
  
  
  Why don't you ask that person about his\her particular situation and then you can find out why?

  I did and the answer is that she does not have to work to get what she wants. Nice place to live, food on the table, car to drive...not motivated to work. You can make minimum wage whatever you want to and it will not change that. Don't cut the gov't assistance off in a day, but there has to be a timeline so they know it will end.
  
  I am not kidding with my question...I don't know what would motivate them. Money does not because they get what they want now and don't have to work 9-5 or more like most of us.
• majorspark

  

  isadore;1584729 wrote:a war time measure which they chose to continue to offer after price control were ended soon after WWII and which expanded to more and more business.

  The choice is not made in a vacuum of government. Policies enacted by government during war time can have an impact beyond the duration of the war. See the revenue acts of 1939 and 1954. The federal government is involved before and after the war. Excluding employer contributions and costs from taxation of income as a deductible business expense.