Simplest reason poor are poor

• Manhattan Buckeye

  http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2014/03/04/Singapore-tops-list-of-most-expensive-cities-for-2014/3191393949608/
  
  Obviously I have more experience in Singapore, but Tokyo is ridiculously expensive.
• BoatShoes

  WebFire;1587839 wrote:I like how you say 24 million want to work is fact. SMH.

  The Bureau of Labor Statistics is Wrong Oh Noez!
• BoatShoes

  Manhattan Buckeye;1587844 wrote:friendly suggestion, stop quoting wikipedia.

  Are you claiming that the information provided about what stagflation is and the experience of Japan has been is incorrect? Here's a friendly suggestion learn what a concept is before you try to derisively call somebody a "clown". You apparently have no understanding of what constitutes inflation or stagflation.
• BoatShoes

  Manhattan Buckeye;1587846 wrote:http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2014/03/04/Singapore-tops-list-of-most-expensive-cities-for-2014/3191393949608/
  
  Obviously I have more experience in Singapore, but Tokyo is ridiculously expensive.

  You don't know what inflation or stagflation is. Your ignorance would not be a big deal if you weren't such a pompous windbag. Hope this helps.
• BoatShoes

  sleeper;1587831 wrote:Who's choice to get pregnant?

  Force Abortion of Embryo + Prison = End of Problem Mirite?!?
  
  I agree that Job Guarantee does not solve problem out of out of wedlock pregnancy but let's imagine a world with widespread full employment. There is a guaranteed job offer out to a pregnant teenager or else she gets nothing. At the very least she has the strong incentives to work while pregnant.
  
  After the pregnancy, again, a robust job guarantee program wherein people could sell and buy subsidized labor, such as babysitters, it would be much easier for single mothers to go to work and also be able to afford babysitters.
• WebFire

  BoatShoes;1587851 wrote:The Bureau of Labor Statistics is Wrong Oh Noez!

  Can you provide link that shows 24 million willing to work?
• Manhattan Buckeye

  BoatShoes;1587853 wrote:You don't know what inflation or stagflation is. Your ignorance would not be a big deal if you weren't such a pompous windbag. Hope this helps.

  And that helps the discussion because.............. I admit I can be a windbag, that's why people pay me. But I'm usually right, and I've been to Tokyo, have you?
• sleeper

  

  BoatShoes;1587855 wrote:Force Abortion of Embryo + Prison = End of Problem Mirite?!?
  
  I agree that Job Guarantee does not solve problem out of out of wedlock pregnancy but let's imagine a world with widespread full employment. There is a guaranteed job offer out to a pregnant teenager or else she gets nothing. At the very least she has the strong incentives to work while pregnant.
  
  After the pregnancy, again, a robust job guarantee program wherein people could sell and buy subsidized labor, such as babysitters, it would be much easier for single mothers to go to work and also be able to afford babysitters.

  I'm not concerned with any policy changes that correct the symptoms not the disease. The reality is irresponsible behavior should be punished accordingly and luckily we have laws already on the books that should punish parents who cannot adequately take care of their child. It's called Child Abuse laws which carry punishments up to 30 years in prison. Have a child? Can't feed it? 30 years in jail. Problem solved.
• gut

  BoatShoes;1587829 wrote: Gut I know you disagree with me on everything but if you are reading will you please chime in and inform Manhattan Buckeye about how he is incorrect on this. You yourself have argued with me about my arguments for QE by pointing out that Japan can't even get out of deflation.

  I have to lean toward giving this one to Boatshoes.
  
  The "stagflation" surprised me, as well. However, in MB's defense, this goes back to a rather narrow definition of inflation as measured by CPI. At least some do refer to stagflation in Japan, and that's apparently because the wealth effects of inflation are very similar to that of asset depreciation, the latter of which is throttling Japan. So if one thinks of net wealth properly in terms of savings, consumption and income....then you can argue Japan has been experiencing stagflation, but that's not the typical economic definition.
  
  So it's a rather liberal and uncommon use of the term...I give MB's claim 3 pinnochios :RpS_flapper:
• gut

  BoatShoes;1587750 wrote: Economic Growth is spending and sales.

  NO! What you are referring to is nominal growth, but what economists care about is REAL growth. The govt CANNOT create REAL growth simply by printing money.
  
  In fact, the entire concept of "smoothing" economic cycles is based on the fact that a major affect of financial and fiscal stimulus is to actually pull future growth forward. And after years of doing this, just like drilling a well you have to keep digging deeper and deeper, and that costs more and more money.
  
  You have this fantasy that there are no long-run implications to endless printing and spending of money. You CANNOT make this problem go away with money, you are only delaying the inevitable. Eventually you have to take your medicine, and how severe and prolonged the pain depends on how deep you dig the hole.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  gut;1587867 wrote:I have to lean toward giving this one to Boatshoes.
  
  The "stagflation" surprised me, as well. However, in MB's defense, this goes back to a rather narrow definition of inflation as measured by CPI. At least some do refer to stagflation in Japan, and that's apparently because the wealth effects of inflation are very similar to that of asset depreciation, the latter of which is throttling Japan. So if one thinks of net wealth properly in terms of savings, consumption and income....then you can argue Japan has been experiencing stagflation, but that's not the typical economic definition.
  
  So it's a rather liberal and uncommon use of the term...I give MB's claim 3 pinnochios :RpS_flapper:

  How is Tokyo, which is largely noted as one of the top 5 most expensive cities, not inflated?
• gut

  Manhattan Buckeye;1587873 wrote:How is Tokyo, which is largely noted as one of the top 5 most expensive cities, not inflated?

  Has it not been one of the most expensive for a long time? Even then, local inflation driven by demographics isn't country-wide inflation.
  
  And aren't most COL indexes driven by housing costs, specifically rent?
  
  Also, I don't think it's coincidence that most of the most expensive cities globally tend to be major financial centers.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  It has been, but it doesn't detract to my original point - Japan is a disaster. And they are struggling with high costs and at least one lost generation. That is no Pinocchio, it is reality.
• gut

  Manhattan Buckeye;1587876 wrote:It has been, but it doesn't detract to my original point - Japan is a disaster. And they are struggling with high costs and at least one lost generation. That is no Pinocchio, it is reality.

  Well, you are completely correct about that. I was just referring to the fact that stagflation is not how most would describe Japan. I'm not aware of what the economic term would be...someone will probably come up with one at some point.
  
  Some (mostly Keynesians) have described Japans ZIRP/QE as too little, too late (isn't that ALWAYS the explanation from Keynesians when their policies fail?). The former BOJ head actually believes ZIRP/QE was a mistake, even referring to it as the "ZIRP-trap".
  
  It would not surprise me if there isn't a sort of tipping point on interest rates (as with taxes and many other things), where the negative externalities (such as punishing savers and therefore being counter-productive to consumption) begin to outweigh the increasingly marginal benefits to business (for whom, of course, the cost of capital is only one variable in the investment decision).
  
  These are pretty scary and uncertain times. We've entered an era where govts and central banks are attempting to financial engineer their economies...and one need only look at the history of investment banks - which are at least as sophisticated and without the political agendas - to see how dangerous a development this is.
• BoatShoes

  WebFire;1587857 wrote:Can you provide link that shows 24 million willing to work?

  I provided a graph with the data from the Surveys taken by the Bureau of Labor Statistics earlier in this thread.
• BoatShoes

  Manhattan Buckeye;1587873 wrote:How is Tokyo, which is largely noted as one of the top 5 most expensive cities, not inflated?

  You don't know the difference between increases in the general price level and a high cost of living. Hope this helps.
• WebFire

  BoatShoes;1588884 wrote:I provided a graph with the data from the Surveys taken by the Bureau of Labor Statistics earlier in this thread.

  Can you provide the source? Thanks.
• BoatShoes

  gut;1587870 wrote:NO! What you are referring to is nominal growth, but what economists care about is REAL growth. The govt CANNOT create REAL growth simply by printing money.
  
  In fact, the entire concept of "smoothing" economic cycles is based on the fact that a major affect of financial and fiscal stimulus is to actually pull future growth forward. And after years of doing this, just like drilling a well you have to keep digging deeper and deeper, and that costs more and more money.
  
  You have this fantasy that there are no long-run implications to endless printing and spending of money. You CANNOT make this problem go away with money, you are only delaying the inevitable. Eventually you have to take your medicine, and how severe and prolonged the pain depends on how deep you dig the hole.

  You can create real growth by definition by purchasing production with the Public Purse. I've never acted like there are no long run implications...they're just not the erroneous long run potential problems imagined by deficit-hysterics in a country like ours. The only long run implication is that if the combined government expenditures, business expenditures and consumption risk inflation because we are pushing our economy beyond its productive capacity. We're not even remotely close to that. We're running around losing our minds about how we might need to turn up the air conditioning if and when things ever get hot when we've been in a dismal winter for years and we need to turn up the heat. We can be warm in comfortable now...why wait around for August to get warm when millions will have freezed to death by then.
  
  The idea that we must suffer prolonged pain is ignorant and foolish. There is nothing to be gained by the suffering of the masses unless you want a leftist revolution.
• WebFire

  I only see 6,000 that want to work. Where is the 24k?
  
  
• WebFire

  Here is not in labor force, searched for work, and available. Still not close to 24k.
  
  
• BoatShoes

  WebFire;1588889 wrote:Can you provide the source? Thanks.

  It is earlier in the thread. Go look at the graph.
  
  The specific data are people who are unemployed and not counted in the labor force but tell the BLS that they want a job right now, the unemployed who are counted in the labor force and actively looking for work and people who are employed in part time jobs but want to work full time and cannot get the hours.
  
  While it is not perfect, the BLS distinguishes between people who aren't in the labor force and do not want a job and people who are in the labor force and do want a job.
  
  There's 83 million who say they don't want a job now and 6 million who say they do want a job. Those 6 million who say they want a job end up getting sucked into the welfare state and become part of that 83 million.
  
  http://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea38.htm
• BoatShoes

  WebFire;1588893 wrote:I only see 6,000 that want to work. Where is the 24k?
  
  

  Add that to people who are officially unemployed and employed part time for economic reasons.
• BoatShoes

  
• WebFire

  Here is not in labor force, searched for work, and available. Still not close to 24k.
  
  
• WebFire

  BoatShoes;1588898 wrote:

  That is total unemployed. You were saying 24k that wanted to work. I am not seeing this in any of your graphs.