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obamaKare: the destruction begins

  • Dr Winston O'Boogie
    Health care premiums have increased dramatically every year for the last 10-15 years - long before Obama came on the scene.
  • believer
    Dr Winston O'Boogie;1607113 wrote:Health care premiums have increased dramatically every year for the last 10-15 years - long before Obama came on the scene.
    And thanks to the miracle of Obamacare the problem just became exponentially worse.
  • BoatShoes
    believer;1607351 wrote:And thanks to the miracle of Obamacare the problem just became exponentially worse.
    Unlikely.

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/actuarial-analyst-obamacare-is-lowering-rise-of-insurance-premiums/
    Now that the Affordable Care Act met (and slightly exceeded) its first-year enrollment projection, the focus has turned to the effect the law will have on premiums, with critics of the law warning the cost of insurance will skyrocket. As with everything Obamacare, this is both a policy question (higher premiums could create a drag on future signups) and a political question, as early indicators about potentially higher premiums would be dropping in the run-up to the 2014 midterms.However, the Society of Actuaries, which assists insurance companies in determining premiums rates, said Thursday it expected premiums to rise an average of 6.5 to 8% under the Affordable Care Act, a range significantly lower than the double-digit increases critics have predicted, and below the 7-10% rate premiums grew on average before Obamacare. That’s in line with the CBO’s report projecting lower premium rises under Obamacare.
    “The double-rate increases we’ve been hearing are probably exaggerated,” Society of Actuaries’ Dave Axene told USA Today. “That’s not what we’re seeing from the actuarial organizations. I guess we’re being a little bit more optimistic.”

    Axene cautioned that these were averages, and would vary depending on the marketplace and the plan, with same areas having a wide spread of price increases among different plans.
    These are also preliminary estimates. However, most analysts expected the later enrollees to be younger and healthier, meaning it’s unlikely there’s a premium hike booby trap waiting in the March sign ups. Axene also reiterated that insurance companies had prepared to have a sicker mix initially, and thus are not anticipating huge increases as a result of people previously denied for preexisting conditions jumping into the risk pool.
    Lucky for you guys though...stomping your feet and making false predictions over and over again has no effect on the electorate!
  • BoatShoes
    queencitybuckeye;1605689 wrote:Why is your reaction always to play the polititard card? It doesn't matter whether the law was passed by Democrats, Republicans, Communists, Fascists, or anyone else. It's bad law, and OF COURSE it's the number one reason for the jump in out of pockets costs, it's absurd to claim otherwise.
    I don't think it is a bad law because it has made involuntary uninsurance a thing of the past. The vulnerable people of our society who could not get health insurance because they had gotten sick are now able to get it.
  • BoatShoes
    Manhattan Buckeye;1605658 wrote:Actually they are. Why don't you post a company that shows that its monthly premiums were lowered?
    Ha, that is a different argument than you previously claimed! Show me a catastrophic plan that has a $500 premium!
  • BoatShoes
    like_that;1605668 wrote: Keep trying to run away from reality though.
    ^^^Interesting choice of words lol.
  • Manhattan Buckeye
    BoatShoes;1607367 wrote:Ha, that is a different argument than you previously claimed! Show me a catastrophic plan that has a $500 premium!
    1) I don't need to show you dick. Most of the premiums under Obamacare are so high they aren't even worth having for most people. If you want a catastrophic plan as a healthy mid-20's male, have at it. That's a good choice. No healthy guy is going to go the doctor more than once a year, and even that is elective.

    2) The previously uninsured people have a bit more health costs, and a high deductible isn't going to help them.

    3) It seems like many of not the majority of Obamacare sign-ups did so because they were booted from their previous health plans, you know the ones our honest administration said wouldn't happen. Silly us for believing that.

    But Obamacare is a rousing success, I'm really psyched about having to pay more money every month!
  • Manhattan Buckeye
    "Axene cautioned that these were averages"?
    We're averaging now? Talk about moving goalposts, our liar in chief told we'd all save (note ALL), and that we could keep our current plan - both lies. Is there a lie you won't try to defend, Obama has made a bigger fool out of you than any of us could.
  • queencitybuckeye
    BoatShoes;1607366 wrote:I don't think it is a bad law because it has made involuntary uninsurance a thing of the past. The vulnerable people of our society who could not get health insurance because they had gotten sick are now able to get it.
    and I get to pay for it, and you get to observe. Of course the low achievers are all for free rides on the backs of the productive.
  • jmog
    BoatShoes;1607365 wrote:Unlikely.

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/actuarial-analyst-obamacare-is-lowering-rise-of-insurance-premiums/



    Lucky for you guys though...stomping your feet and making false predictions over and over again has no effect on the electorate!
    Unluckily for you the math just doesn't add up.

    If the rates increase by 40% in year 1 and then 6-8.5% every year after that, that is NOT lower premiums than if the rate had just increased 7-10% every year.

    If you take the median of both ranges of increases (7.25% for the ACA, 8.5% before ACA), and include the 40% increase in the first year of ACA..that whopping 1.25% lower rate of increase doesn't ACTUALLY create lower premiums UNTIL 2036!

    That's right, 22 years from now the premiums would be lower than if we did nothing at all...and that is just for the first year that it is cheaper. The American people will have FINALLY paid less total money for health care by the year 2046! Yeah, only about 30 years from now will the ACA finally pay off!

    Let's celebrate in the streets!
  • QuakerOats
    More illegal and unethical White House tactics, as found by the GAO

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/21/white-house-involved-in-seeking-for-pro-obamacare-group-watchdog-says/



    The beat goes on ........
  • QuakerOats
    jmog;1607416 wrote:Unluckily for you the math just doesn't add up.

    If the rates increase by 40% in year 1 and then 6-8.5% every year after that, that is NOT lower premiums than if the rate had just increased 7-10% every year.

    If you take the median of both ranges of increases (7.25% for the ACA, 8.5% before ACA), and include the 40% increase in the first year of ACA..that whopping 1.25% lower rate of increase doesn't ACTUALLY create lower premiums UNTIL 2036!

    It is the same math the regime used to blow up the debt and deficits: increase spending by 50% in the first year, then claim that subsequent increases on a percentage basis are lower than Bush's. Disregard the extra $1.2 trillion we are pissing away every year, just look at the increase beyond this $1.2 trillion ---------- and the dumbed-down masses educated by the national public sector union monopoly fall for it. Sad, sad, sad state of affairs.


    Change we can believe in ...
  • QuakerOats
    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/376191/dem-congressman-obamacare-worst-yet-come-its-going-hit-fan-andrew-johnson?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


    Massachusetts democrat says the shit is "going to hit the fan" ...........worst is coming.
  • QuakerOats
    http://dailycaller.com/2014/04/21/tax-preparing-companies-getting-paid-by-government-to-sign-people-up-for-obamacare/

    bribe people to improve your numbers .....

    change we can believe in ...
  • gut
    QuakerOats;1607634 wrote:http://dailycaller.com/2014/04/21/tax-preparing-companies-getting-paid-by-government-to-sign-people-up-for-obamacare/

    bribe people to improve your numbers .....

    change we can believe in ...
    So after spending BILLIONS on state and federal exchanges, we still have to kick-back to tax auditors for signing people up? LMAO to people who think this monstrosity is going to save us money.
  • BoatShoes
    queencitybuckeye;1607407 wrote:and I get to pay for it, and you get to observe. Of course the low achievers are all for free rides on the backs of the productive.
    LOL get ooovvvver yourself old man! Unfortunately for you folks previously being unable to obtain insurance because of some sickness that was no fault of their own had nothing to do with being "low achieving". But, the delusions of the self-important make them feel better for their own callousness and indifference I guess.
  • BoatShoes
    jmog;1607416 wrote:Unluckily for you the math just doesn't add up.

    If the rates increase by 40% in year 1 and then 6-8.5% every year after that, that is NOT lower premiums than if the rate had just increased 7-10% every year.

    If you take the median of both ranges of increases (7.25% for the ACA, 8.5% before ACA), and include the 40% increase in the first year of ACA..that whopping 1.25% lower rate of increase doesn't ACTUALLY create lower premiums UNTIL 2036!

    That's right, 22 years from now the premiums would be lower than if we did nothing at all...and that is just for the first year that it is cheaper. The American people will have FINALLY paid less total money for health care by the year 2046! Yeah, only about 30 years from now will the ACA finally pay off!

    Let's celebrate in the streets!
    Where do you gather that the Affordable Care Act increased premiums 40% in the first year? The CBO projected a 10%-13% increase in premiums in 2014 and recently revised down that projection in line with the Society for Actuaries as well. There were conservative organizations like the Manhattan Institute arguing that premiums would increase 40% but as the Society for Actuaries argue, those double digit premium increase averages have failed and will continue to fail to materialize.

    I cannot get it to copy but this link clearly shows that the CBO reduced premium increase projections by 15% in 2014.

    http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/45010-breakout-AppendixB.pdf
  • Manhattan Buckeye
    "callousness and indifference I guess."

    It is callous and indifferent that we're forcing young people to pay more than they should, for insurance they don't need? I would think the Donks would be all over this.

  • BoatShoes
    Manhattan Buckeye;1609023 wrote:"callousness and indifference I guess."

    It is callous and indifferent that we're forcing young people to pay more than they should, for insurance they don't need? I would think the Donks would be all over this.

    Again, everybody needs Catastrophic Insurance at least. You lied and exaggerated the increase in cost of catastrophic health insurance under the Affordable Care Act. The plans available in Ohio in the individual health markets were cheaper than my cell phone plans.

    But, even if you were right that this was some horrible burden on young men (which it isn't), you would never shed a tear for the millions of people who were simply barred from the insurance market against their will because they got sick through no fault of their own. And, that's what the Affordable Care Act was all about...eliminating the tremendous market failure of being involuntarily uninsured because the providers would not insure you. In order to eliminate that through the private sector, you needed the three pronged approach invented by the Republicans in the 90's....1. Community Rating, 2. Guaranteed Issue and 3. Getting Young Healthy people into the risk pool (where they should be anyways if they are personally responsible).
  • gut
    BoatShoes;1609025 wrote: But, even if you were right that this was some horrible burden on young men (which it isn't)...
    This more expensive insurance isn't a horrible burden, but we had to pass the ACA so they could afford insurance?!?

    So now that it isn't saving everyone "$2500/yr", we've shifted the rhetoric from "they don't have enough money for insurance!" to "they have enough money to pay a little more...it's all good"?

    You can keep you insurance...You can keep your doctor....It will be cheaper....When ACA has made worse most of the things it intended to make better to justify the program, how can it be considered anything other than a massive failure?

    The real costs of Obamakare aren't going to be felt until people starting getting sick and get sticker shock from significantly higher deductibles and co-pays that they traded for lower premiums. In layman's terms, the CBO revision downward is because these people have 2nd rate plans (lower reimbursement rates and less providers to choose from - read: the best doctors/hospitals opt out) when their initial projections assumed people would choose better coverage similar to employer plans. So the premium increases (likely as the CBO is to generously undershoot estimates) are partially masked by lower benefits/utility.
  • Manhattan Buckeye
    "You lied and exaggerated the increase in cost of catastrophic health insurance under the Affordable Care Act."

    Don't call me a liar again, dumbledoofus. My father-in-law's company's premiums increased by well over double digits across the board, but especially among young, single guys. If it is any relief, everyone's premiums went up, so it is an equal opportunity disaster.

    If you're going to call people out, have some proof...show me where your premiums went down, and the deductible wasn't higher....can you do that?
  • Manhattan Buckeye
    "we've shifted the rhetoric from "they don't have enough money for insurance!" to "they have enough money to pay a little more...it's all good"?

    It is all about moving the goalposts, and only the bootlickers are defending this.
  • gut
    Manhattan Buckeye;1609051 wrote:It is all about moving the goalposts...
    Maybe Obama can be the next NFL commissioner....you know, because they keep talking about moving the goalposts.
  • WebFire
    Wrong thread.
  • BoatShoes
    Manhattan Buckeye;1609050 wrote:"You lied and exaggerated the increase in cost of catastrophic health insurance under the Affordable Care Act."

    Don't call me a liar again, dumbledoofus. My father-in-law's company's premiums increased by well over double digits across the board, but especially among young, single guys. If it is any relief, everyone's premiums went up, so it is an equal opportunity disaster.

    If you're going to call people out, have some proof...show me where your premiums went down, and the deductible wasn't higher....can you do that?
    We were not talking about "premiums going down and deductibles going up." You made an exaggerated claim and I rebutted it.

    I said this:
    "You lied and exaggerated the increase in cost of catastrophic health insurance under the Affordable Care Act."
    Because you claimed this:
    Because high deductible plans used to be $50/month premium, thanks to Barack Obama they are now $500/month. Affordable health care, for idiots!
    I responded with this:
    No they aren't. Hope this helps.
    So you either lied or are ignorant or ranted mindlessly based on your delusional, over-the-top, anti-Obummer rage because this is the reality in the individual marketplaces:
    Table 1: Premiums and Qualified Health Plan Choices, 36 States (Weighted average across entire state)
    State Average Number of QHPs[20] 27-Year-Old, Before Tax Credits 27-Year-Old with an Income of $25,000 Family of Four with an Income of $50,000[21]
    Lowest Bronze Lowest Silver Lowest Gold Lowest Catastrophic Second Lowest Silver Before Tax Credit Second Lowest Silver After Tax Credit Lowest Bronze After Tax Credit Second Lowest Silver Before Tax Credit Second Lowest Silver After Tax Credit Lowest Bronze After Tax Credit[22]
    AK[23] 34 $254 $312 $401 $236 $312 $107 $48 $1,131 $205 $0
    AL 7 $162 $200 $248 $138 $209 $145 $98 $757 $282 $112
    AR 28 $181 $231 $263 $135 $241 $145 $85 $873 $282 $64
    AZ 106 $141 $164 $187 $107 $166 $145 $120 $600 $282 $192
    DE 19 $203 $234 $282 $137 $237 $145 $111 $859 $282 $158
    FL 102 $169 $200 $229 $132 $218 $145 $96 $789 $282 $104
    GA 50 $179 $208 $242 $142 $221 $145 $103 $800 $282 $132
    IA 39 $139 $175 $203 $95 $189 $145 $96 $683 $282 $103
    ID 42 $150 $182 $211 $134 $188 $145 $107 $680 $282 $144
    IL 58 $134 $180 $210 $134 $188 $145 $90 $682 $282 $84
    IN 34 $200 $258 $332 $168 $265 $145 $80 $961 $282 $46
    KS 37 $130 $171 $192 $87 $171 $145 $104 $619 $282 $133
    LA 40 $175 $235 $253 $142 $249 $145 $71 $902 $282 $15
    ME 20 $216 $255 $336 $182 $265 $145 $96 $961 $282 $104
    MI 43 $146 $178 $218 $118 $202 $145 $89 $731 $282 $80
    MO 17 $162 $211 $242 $110 $220 $145 $87 $798 $282 $72
    MS 22 $225 $265 $321 N/A $295 $145 $75 $1,069 $282 $28
    MT 26 $165 $204 $222 $149 $208 $145 $102 $753 $282 $126
    NC 22 $186 $237 $283 $123 $243 $145 $88 $880 $282 $74
    ND 24 $185 $230 $259 $142 $232 $145 $98 $841 $282 $111
    NE 40 $159 $196 $232 $122 $206 $145 $98 $744 $282 $113
    NH 12 $186 $236 $281 $157 $237 $145 $94 $859 $282 $96
    NJ 29 $219 $253 $303 $186 $260 $145 $103 $943 $282 $131
    NM 52 $143 $181 $204 $120 $186 $145 $102 $672 $282 $128
    OH 46 $177 $200 $243 $131 $212 $145 $110 $768 $282 $156
    OK 53 $114 $169 $203 $105 $175 $145 $84 $634 $282 $63
    PA 56 $151 $170 $205 $125 $187 $145 $109 $675 $282 $152
    SC 26 $176 $219 $259 $146 $223 $145 $97 $809 $282 $109
    SD 32 $196 $225 $272 $169 $235 $145 $106 $852 $282 $141
    TN 59 $119 $155 $205 N/A $161 $145 $103 $584 $282 $128
    TX 54 $139 $189 $225 $139 $201 $145 $83 $727 $282 $57
    UT 82 $153 $183 $212 $116 $203 $145 $95 $656 $282 $122
    VA 47 $156 $213 $253 $118 $221 $145 $80 $799 $282 $48
    WI 97 $189 $227 $280 $150 $238 $145 $96 $861 $282 $106
    WV 12 $185 $218 $266 $169 $218 $145 $112 $789 $282 $161
    WY 16 $286 $324 $365 $259 $342 $145 $90 $1,237 $282 $81
    Average,
    36 States    		 53 $163 $203 $240 $129 $214 $145 $93 $774 $282 $95
    http://aspe.hhs.gov/health/reports/2013/marketplacepremiums/ib_marketplace_premiums.cfm

    As you can see, Catastrophic Plans do not cost $500. Hope This Helps.