Senate Bill 5 Targets Collective Bargaining for Elimination!

• fan_from_texas

  LJ;691877 wrote:They aren't complaining about how it sucks to not have a CBA, they are telling you how out of touch public union employees are with the realities of the economy.

  ^^^this.
  
  I'm thrilled not to have a CBA. We received raises/bonuses based on our individual skills, not based on a pre-negotiated deal. During the boom years, salaries skyrocketed. During the bad years, people were cut. But because I can go online and found out what any other lawyer in a big firm is making at any time, firms don't screw their workers.
  
  One firm laid off a bunch of people and really screwed them over hard. Now that firm, which traditionally has been one of the top firms in the country, is struggling to find talent and has been "forced" to pay massive bonuses to hire/retain people. There's no CBA, but in the internet age, actions taken by an employer are remembered.
• mella

  My wife was called by a recruiter a while ago, she thought long and hard, went to an interview, returned for a second, let her current employer know about it when it came up in a conversation. She also applied for another job that opened up within her current company. Her current supervisor gave her a significant raise (20%) to stay in her current position.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  "One firm laid off a bunch of people and really screwed them over hard .Now that firm, which traditionally has been one of the top firms in the country, is struggling to find talent and has been "forced" to pay massive bonuses to hire/retain people."
  
  Cough, cough, Latham, cough.
  
  Before that stunt, Latham DC was without a doubt the #1 target for the law review/top 3%/fed. appellate clerk crowd at my law school, even more desirable than Cravath or S&C. Now they have to take who will take them. I know I'd never work for them, and the people I know that are Latham alums are very angry how the firm has handled the downturn. Their clients have to know about the situation, and likely aren't pleased about it.
• fan_from_texas

  Manhattan Buckeye;691977 wrote:"One firm laid off a bunch of people and really screwed them over hard .Now that firm, which traditionally has been one of the top firms in the country, is struggling to find talent and has been "forced" to pay massive bonuses to hire/retain people."
  
  Cough, cough, Latham, cough.
  
  Before that stunt, Latham DC was without a doubt the #1 target for the law review/top 3%/fed. appellate clerk crowd at my law school, even more desirable than Cravath or S&C. Now they have to take who will take them. I know I'd never work for them, and the people I know that are Latham alums are very angry how the firm has handled the downturn. Their clients have to know about the situation, and likely aren't pleased about it.

  
  Everyone at Northwestern who had an offer from Latham in my class (law review, CoA clerk, etc.) all took the offer. I know of at least two who were Lathamed. During OCI, I talked to a friend who is a 3L at NU. Despite the down economy, and despite Latham's massive bonuses, people were avoiding them and turning down their offers. I don't think people were all that shocked to see them drop in Vault, for whatever it's worth.
  
  And people still talk about Shearman and the way they screwed people. The internet doesn't let reputations die. Companies that mistreat employees end up paying through the nose to find bodies to fill the slots.
• mella

  fan_from_texas;692001 wrote:Everyone at Northwestern who had an offer from Latham in my class (law review, CoA clerk, etc.) all took the offer. I know of at least two who were Lathamed. During OCI, I talked to a friend who is a 3L at NU. Despite the down economy, and despite Latham's massive bonuses, people were avoiding them and turning down their offers. I don't think people were all that shocked to see them drop in Vault, for whatever it's worth.
  
  And people still talk about Shearman and the way they screwed people. The internet doesn't let reputations die. Companies that mistreat employees end up paying through the nose to find bodies to fill the slots.

  And this is why I am not too worried about the effects of HB5. If you replace the word companies with school districts..... School districts would not be able to just screw teachers because word will get out and eventually districts will have to pay higher wages to get teachers.
  
  Supply and demand.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  In the long run, if you just let the market work, it works pretty well. Does that mean there won't be some rough spots or even very rough spots? Nope. But overall, it's usually better to let it adjust on its own. At least historically, that seems to be the case. I think all the piddling around the Fed is doing now with the economy is only delaying more pain and may very well make things worse in the long run.
• sleeper

  

  mella;692004 wrote:And this is why I am not too worried about the effects of HB5. If you replace the word companies with school districts..... School districts would not be able to just screw teachers because word will get out and eventually districts will have to pay higher wages to get teachers.
  
  Supply and demand.

  Bingo.
  
  Further tells me that people against SB5 are probably among the worst teachers or have been brainwashed by the Unions(who have every incentive to fuck everyone else but themselves to stay in business).
• bigkahuna

  Gblock;691925 wrote:you should get a special ed cert or ESL

  
  I thought about doing something like that because apparently all you need to do is take the state test for w/e subject matter and presto. At least that's how I understand it in Michigan.
  
  I actually applied to Teach for America but then learned more about it and was disgusted by the mochery they were making of the profession. "Oh, you can have a bachelor's degree in w/e, attend a 1 month training retreat, take the state test, and be just as if not more prepared than someone with a degree in teaching." Total BS.
  
  Sorry for going off topic for a minute.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  sleeper;692105 wrote:Bingo.
  
  Further tells me that people against SB5 are probably among the worst teachers or have been brainwashed by the Unions(who have every incentive to fuck everyone else but themselves to stay in business).

  .. into buying into the lie of "job security".
• Bigdogg

  Ronald Reagan's opinion of collective bargaining. Enjoy.
  
  [video=youtube;orwN4WKhriw][/video]
• fan_from_texas

  Bigdogg;692435 wrote:Ronald Reagan's opinion of collective bargaining. Enjoy.
  
  [video=youtube;orwN4WKhriw][/video]

  
  There's a big philosophical difference between private sector unions and public sector unions, as has been discussed elsewhere on this site. If workers want to unionize to fight back against a greedy CEO, fine. But if public sector employees want to organize and strike against . . . us? That seems to be not so great an idea.
• jc10380

  Can everyone just admit that this bill is about Union Busting and not balancing the budget. Even Scott Walker did that.
• fan_from_texas

  jc10380;692460 wrote:Can everyone just admit that this bill is about Union Busting and not balancing the budget. Even Scott Walker did that.

  You're overlooking the fact that a number of us think that public sector unions are a long-term budget issue.
• bonelizzard

  bases_loaded;691663 wrote:Thanks for teaching me what sarcasm is. A win for you today!

  
  
  Didn't know we were competing.. I can't compete with all of you professional OC posters..
  
  
  off topic: Great wrestling last night. Looking forward to some more exciting wrestling today.
  The REAL winners and losers of competition, wrestlers on the mats. They are all winners for just being there, regardless of the outcome of the match. Go check out some HS district wrestling today in your area.
• Bigdogg

  fan_from_texas;692464 wrote:You're overlooking the fact that a number of us think that public sector unions are a long-term budget issue.

  
  Only if you ignore the facts that I already posted on here. Private sector employees make less the their private sector counterparts with equivalent education. Nobody has posted anything on here to refute this yet.
• Prescott

  SB5 saves money.
  
  http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/02/26/senate-bill-5-saves-1-3b-study-says.html?sid=101
  
  Are school bus drivers members of the union?? If so, how does their pay and benefit package compare to drivers who work for private busing companies, who transport children?
• sleeper

  

  Bigdogg;692574 wrote:Only if you ignore the facts that I already posted on here. Private sector employees make less the their private sector counterparts with equivalent education. Nobody has posted anything on here to refute this yet.

  
  These comparisons don't take into account 9 month work schedules and the benefits package. Refuted.
• Bigdogg

  Prescott;692592 wrote:SB5 saves money.
  
  http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/02/26/senate-bill-5-saves-1-3b-study-says.html?sid=101
  
  Are school bus drivers members of the union?? If so, how does their pay and benefit package compare to drivers who work for private busing companies, who transport children?

  
  LOL yes a "study" from the Ohio Department of Administrative Services Collective Bargaining found you save money. You do know who their boss is right? Might as well use a study from FOX text in. Too funny!!!!
• Bigdogg

  sleeper;692594 wrote:These comparisons don't take into account 9 month work schedules and the benefits package. Refuted.

  
  That's news to me all public employees work 9 months!!! Try again!
• sleeper

  

  Bigdogg;692605 wrote:That's news to me all public employees work 9 months!!! Try again!

  
  Convenient you ignore the benefits package. Most of the studies aren't comparing teachers from the private sector to the public, because everyone knows that private sector teachers are paid substantially less. These Union propaganda studies are comparing public employees with doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, and engineers; clearly not a fair comparison.
  
  You're overpaid, this is going to pass, and I'm going to laugh all the way to the bank.
• LJ

  

  bonelizzard;692491 wrote:Didn't know we were competing.. I can't compete with all of you professional OC posters..
  
  
  off topic: Great wrestling last night. Looking forward to some more exciting wrestling today.
  The REAL winners and losers of competition, wrestlers on the mats. They are all winners for just being there, regardless of the outcome of the match. Go check out some HS district wrestling today in your area.

  
  There is a wrestling forum on this website if you would like to discuss wrestling
• ernest_t_bass

  

  sleeper;692609 wrote:You're overpaid, this is going to pass, and I'm going to laugh all the way to the bank.

  
  Wait, now teachers are overpaid?
• sleeper

  

  ernest_t_bass;692629 wrote:Wait, now teachers are overpaid?

  
  Public teachers, yes.
• Prescott

  Are school bus drivers members of the union?? If so, how does their pay and benefit package compare to drivers who work for private busing companies, who transport children?
  
  What about custodians?? How does the school custodian's benefit and pay package compare to a custodian in the private sector? What about cafeteria workers?
  

  Might as well use a study from FOX

  If you can't disprove the accuracy of the study, attack the source. Typical. Maybe, MSNBC will provide some answers for you.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  sleeper;692639 wrote:Public teachers, yes.

  
  I make $34,000. That is overpaid?