Senate Bill 5 Targets Collective Bargaining for Elimination!

• Writerbuckeye

  

  Gblock;682260 wrote:I worked 8 years before making 40000 it wasn't that great

  
  Eight years, huh? Wow. That's lots of suffering.
  
  And yes, that was sarcasm.
• queencitybuckeye

  Gblock;682068 wrote:health care should be free

  
  Nothing with cost is free, it's all about whether the recipient is the one paying (in general, this is nearly always a good idea).
• O-Trap

  

  Writerbuckeye;682266 wrote:Eight years, huh? Wow. That's lots of suffering.
  
  And yes, that was sarcasm.

  
  Hey now. Five years has already felt like a lifetime.
  
  Then again, in five years, I've gone from $30K to $40K to under $25K. So, I added an income and should be, combined, above $50K for the year.
  
  And it feels good to earn every penny.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  queencitybuckeye;682268 wrote:Nothing with cost is free, it's all about whether the recipient is the one paying (in general, this is nearly always a good idea).

  
  It always is. When people perceive something as free, they don't value it and treat it as such (abuse it, neglect it, whatever fits).
• O-Trap

  

  Writerbuckeye;682271 wrote:It always is. When people perceive something as free, they don't value it and treat it as such (abuse it, neglect it, whatever fits).

  
  I see this every day.
• Gblock

  Writerbuckeye;682271 wrote:It always is. When people perceive something as free, they don't value it and treat it as such (abuse it, neglect it, whatever fits).

  
  +1
• Gblock

  i just read some early posts and article by etb...one part I disagree w the articles is that teachers wouldn't work as hard or be distracted by labor issues....I think they care too much and most I know care as much about students as their own kids....I hate that they use that as a reason not to pass the bill
• majorspark

  

  Bigdogg;682033 wrote:Your rights end where mine begin. If you choose not to buy health insurance and then you get cancer, you still get treated under the current law. I and other taxpayers still have to pay for your right to chose not to bear the burden and personal responsibility of purchasing health insurance. To compare this with forcing you to purchasing a car or life insurance is just stupid. If you want to not purchase health insurance then you should sign away your rights for treatment or there should be a penalty. Pooling the risk and spreading it across everyone is the only way to reduce the cost of health care, which this is really about if you eliminate all the partisan BS.

  
  There is a penalty. Its called bankruptcy. Seizing and liquidation of any assests by the people via the judiciary. Financially blackballed for a period of time.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  My stepfather is telling me that in Wisconsin - the democrats failed to show up in order to vote on their version of SB5.
  
  Is that true?
• O-Trap

  

  CenterBHSFan;682300 wrote:My stepfather is telling me that in Wisconsin - the democrats failed to show up in order to vote on their version of SB5.
  
  Is that true?

  
  The Democrat Party has a "version?"
• Writerbuckeye

  

  No, she's talking about Republicans trying to do the same thing in Wisconsin and the Dems running away like children, instead of voting on it because they're in the minority.
• CinciX12

  

  This doesn't really seem to make a lot of sense to me. There a hundreds of other things we could cut back on before we start going after State employee benefits. It will really affect my family on a tremendous level with a dad as a school treasurer in a district that will flat out cease to exist and a mom who is a RN at OSU med.
  
  If it passes, I am gone from Ohio no questions asked. Healthcare workers need unions. I can't imagine the amount of things I would be expected to do that are just asinine if this bill were to pass and it couldn't be changed.
• analogkid

  Writerbuckeye;682237 wrote: Guess what? The private sector isn't some boogeyman that wants to eat your young and take away everything you've got. It wants to succeed, and it knows it needs talented, productive people to do so. It isn't going to simply jettison good people for the hell of it. Also, I don't believe for one second that many of the protections already built into government employment (that aren't from the union) will change. Government jobs were pretty damn secure even before unions came along, and I see nothing changing in that regard -- meaning you'll have to really screw up and be unproductive or destructive to get yourself fired, most likely.
  
  Unless you really have no self confidence and don't believe in your own abilities, you have nothing to fear from this legislation.

  
  This really resonates with me Writer. I think that some form of merit pay is sorely needed in education. I admit that the uncertainty of the new system fills me with some angst (I disagree with you that competent teachers have NOTHING to fear as unexpected circumstances do seem more likely to occur) but I am confident that my work ethic, education, and skills will carry me through. And if those unexpected circumstances (and they would be unexpected) do occur then I will do what the rest of the world does; I will pack up my things and move on. I am still a competent teacher and I still have a high demand certification. I won't be happy, and it may make things tougher, but I will move on.
• QuakerOats

  CenterBHSFan;682300 wrote:My stepfather is telling me that in Wisconsin - the democrats failed to show up in order to vote on their version of SB5.
  
  Is that true?

  Yes, the yellowbellies ran to Illinois. How ironic, their democratic predecessors dig a massive hole, and then the adults have to come in to clean up the mess while the dem minority run to another state to prevent a vote on the bill. They ought to be jailed.
• CinciX12

  

  analogkid;682357 wrote:This really resonates with me Writer. I think that some form of merit pay is sorely needed in education. I admit that the uncertainty of the new system fills me with some angst (I disagree with you that competent teachers have NOTHING to fear as unexpected circumstances do seem more likely to occur) but I am confident that my work ethic, education, and skills will carry me through. And if those unexpected circumstances (and they would be unexpected) do occur then I will do what the rest of the world does; I will pack up my things and move on. I am still a competent teacher and I still have a high demand certification. I won't be happy, and it may make things tougher, but I will move on.

  
  They didn't define the merit based system though. They are voting to take union representation away in favor of something not even determined yet.
• bonelizzard

  bonelizzard;680502 wrote:SB5 is wrong. Call or email the following Senators and tell them so..
  
  
  Kevin Bacon - Chair - 466-8064 [email protected]
  
  Keith Faber - Vice-Chair - 466-7584 [email protected]
  
  Joe Schiavoni (Currently AGAINST the Bill - THANK HIM) [email protected]
  
  Bill Beagle - 466-6247 - [email protected]
  
  Edna Brown (Currently AGAINST the Bill - THANK HER) [email protected]
  
  Jim Hughes - 466-5981 [email protected]
  
  Shannon Jones (the Bills Author - Tell her she's wrong) 466-9737 [email protected]
  
  Kris Jordan - 466-8086 - [email protected]
  
  Eric Kearney (Currently AGAINST the Bill - THANK HIM) - [email protected]
  
  Tom Sawyer (Currently AGAINST the Bill - THANK HIM) - [email protected]
  
  Tim Schaffer - 466-5838 - [email protected]
  
  Bill Seitz - 466-8068 - [email protected]

  
  I was very proud today to represent hard working men and women of unions at the statehouse. I was just 1 voice among thousands of professional men and women standing up for what they believe. Collective bargaining is an American right. I'm proud to be an American and to exercise my freedom of speech. SB5 is wrong for Ohio. Here's the Senator's phone #'s and/or email addresses.
• dwccrew

  

  ernest_t_bass;681696 wrote:Here is my #1 worry. We just closed on a new house... before this hit. Given my current budget, we can afford it. If I see a $300 decrease in my pay, per pay, I will almost immediately lose it. I didn't see any of this coming. Part (hell, maybe most) of the blame is on me for not paying attention and not doing research. But can't some of you even sympathize the slightest with an example like this?
  
  "Welcome to the real world," does not really help "ease the pain," nor is it clever.

  There is no guarantee you will see a decrease of $300 though, right?
  

  Gblock;681707 wrote:i think that the best and the brightest won't become teachers because the job becomes less attractive.
  
  further those who would be in control may be more concerned about the bottom line than the best interests of the students

  Honestly, the best and brightest don't become teachers now. It reminds me of the old saying, "those who can......do; those who can't.....teach." I quote that as a semi-joke, because I do respect what teachers do, I just don't think they should be immune to poor economies.
  

  Gblock;681947 wrote:if it truly did become an open market and i could then negotiate with many districts for my services then yes that would be very exciting and i would feel like i had some barganing power on my own and could create some competition for my talents. as it stands now i cant leave my job for another district except to go into administration. if you leave and start at another district that would cause me to go ten steps down on the pay ladder to year 5. so this job security that looks so great is also a trap for us. if i could I would much rather apply for a job in hilliard, new albany, olentangy, dublin etc...

  
  You basically just supported the argument of eliminating a union. If unions and seniority were not a factor, you could go to different districts. Districts could then try to "woo" the best teachers with higher pay incentives.
  

  ernest_t_bass;682004 wrote: This bill has been written by a woman who has never been an educator. I should write new laws for the medical field. Why not.

  
  I understand what you are saying, but the major difference is the medical field is largely private whereas the educational field is largely public.
  

  ernest_t_bass;682010 wrote:I'm sure you loved it as a kid though! The original school calendar was developed around farmer's schedules. Start Labor Day and end Memorial Day.

  I'm sure most kids loved it, but I think it is time to adapt to a new era. We are falling behind in the world (in education) and we need to get back to being the best.
  

  derek bomar;682014 wrote:that doesn't make it applicable for kids today...I think kids should go year-round, and teachers should have to teach year-round.

  I also think we should have year round school. 8 weeks on and then 2 weeks off would be better than summer break if you ask me.
  

  Gblock;682016 wrote:the reason we don t have more year round is because parents in general resisit it because they like the family time in the summer and vacation time and such....i think it has some advantages and disadvantages as far as being a teacher...it is surely better for students. plenty of places in the world go year round and on saturdays.

  I am not sure I am buying that parents resist sending their kids to school year round. I am sure parents would have enough family time with the many other holiday breaks. Plus, with both parents working (as that is often the case) it is easier to send the kids to school than find a sitter.
  

  bonelizzard;682392 wrote:I was very proud today to represent hard working men and women of unions at the statehouse. I was just 1 voice among thousands of professional men and women standing up for what they believe. Collective bargaining is an American right. I'm proud to be an American and to exercise my freedom of speech. SB5 is wrong for Ohio. Here's the Senator's phone #'s and/or email addresses.

  
  I fully support your right to protest peacefully even if I don't agree with your position. More power to you.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  CinciX12;682370 wrote:They didn't define the merit based system though. They are voting to take union representation away in favor of something not even determined yet.

  
  What is to prevent local districts from sitting down with their own teaching staffs and defining what works best for THEIR district? Seems to me that would be a far better way of determining teacher effectiveness than some cookie cutter formula that districts try to plug into. School districts are just as individual as the communities they are in; they should reflect that in how they manage the district.
• analogkid

  dwccrew;682415 wrote:There is no guarantee you will see a decrease of $300 though, right?
  Honestly, the best and brightest don't become teachers now. It reminds me of the old saying, "those who can......do; those who can't.....teach." I quote that as a semi-joke, because I do respect what teachers do, I just don't think they should be immune to poor economies.

  I soooo hate that quote. My graduate adviser tried to dissuade me from becoming a teacher rather than a researcher by telling me that "teachers are not the sharpest crayons in the box." My current school has an MD, a JD, and several PhD's on staff. I would put the professionals in this building up against the best and brightest of most any corporation in the area and they would more than hold their own.
• O-Trap

  

  analogkid;682466 wrote:I soooo hate that quote. My graduate adviser tried to dissuade me from becoming a teacher rather than a researcher by telling me that "teachers are not the sharpest crayons in the box." My current school has an MD, a JD, and several PhD's on staff. I would put the professionals in this building up against the best and brightest of most any corporation in the area and they would more than hold their own.

  
  The people who shaped my intellectual development the most were teachers. They all had doctorates (some had multiple ones ... one guy had seven doctorates), and were the brightest group of individuals with whom I ever recall speaking. Every one of them chose to teach for a living, and I, along with many others, are better for it.
  
  My mentor, Dr. David Plaster, who I posted about recently, was one of them, and no other human being (except maybe my own father ... MAYBE) has shaped my life more. I do detest that quote, because it's ridiculous and illogical. Being a teacher does not automatically disqualify you from being the best at something in your field.
  
  Now, it doesn't automatically qualify you for being the best either. Like I said, there are some "teachers" (and I'm more than playing fast 'n free with the word) around here who should be asking me if I want paper or plastic. I doubt it's their qualifications, but it's most certainly their effort. Infuriating.
  
  My wife and I invited one of the local teen girls over tonight. My wife has been pouring a lot of time into this girl over the last two years. She's very smart, and a quick study. She didn't know how to multiply two two-digit numbers together when we met her. Within a couple weeks of working with her, she not only learned it, but picked up on the process and was able to do three-digit and four-digit numbers.
  
  It's not a lack of effort on her part, but given that she was 14 at the time, several math teachers had to have dropped the ball ... BIG TIME. But she and her classmates were the only ones seeing any repercussions from it.
  
  All that to say, there are some piss-poor "teachers" out there, but there are also some who I'm pretty sure hang the moon each night.
• bonelizzard

  SB5 is wrong. Call or email the following Senators and tell them so..
  
  
  Kevin Bacon - Chair - 466-8064 [email protected]
  
  Keith Faber - Vice-Chair - 466-7584 [email protected]
  
  Joe Schiavoni (Currently AGAINST the Bill - THANK HIM) [email protected]
  
  Bill Beagle - 466-6247 - [email protected]
  
  Edna Brown (Currently AGAINST the Bill - THANK HER) [email protected]
  
  Jim Hughes - 466-5981 [email protected]
  
  Shannon Jones (the Bills Author - Tell her she's wrong) 466-9737 [email protected]
  
  Kris Jordan - 466-8086 - [email protected]
  
  Eric Kearney (Currently AGAINST the Bill - THANK HIM) - [email protected]
  
  Tom Sawyer (Currently AGAINST the Bill - THANK HIM) - [email protected]
  
  Tim Schaffer - 466-5838 - [email protected]
  
  Bill Seitz - 466-8068 - [email protected]
• I Wear Pants

  SB5 is wrong?
  
  That's a compelling argument.
• O-Trap

  

  I Wear Pants;682565 wrote:SB5 is wrong?
  
  That's a compelling argument.

  
  But wait! You can call Kevin Bacon! Look! I left his number!
• dwccrew

  

  analogkid;682466 wrote:I soooo hate that quote. My graduate adviser tried to dissuade me from becoming a teacher rather than a researcher by telling me that "teachers are not the sharpest crayons in the box." My current school has an MD, a JD, and several PhD's on staff. I would put the professionals in this building up against the best and brightest of most any corporation in the area and they would more than hold their own.

  The quote I presented is different than what your graduate adviser said. I never said teachers aren't intelligent, but I do think that SOME teachers (not all though) would have a hard time applying the practices, skills and knowledge of what they teach in the real world. No doubt there are some highly intelligent people that teach, but are many of them ABLE to apply what they know in a manner moreso than being an educator? Some perhaps, but not many. I base this off teachers I know, so it is very biased and totally my opinion.
  
  *Again, not questioning the intelligence of teachers
  

  O-Trap;682586 wrote:But wait! You can call Kevin Bacon! Look! I left his number!

  6 degrees of Bacon. The guy is everywhere
• dwccrew

  

  bonelizzard;682554 wrote:SB5 is wrong. Call or email the following Senators and tell them so..
  
  
  Kevin Bacon - Chair - 466-8064 [email protected]
  
  Keith Faber - Vice-Chair - 466-7584 [email protected]
  
  Joe Schiavoni (Currently AGAINST the Bill - THANK HIM) [email protected]
  
  Bill Beagle - 466-6247 - [email protected]
  
  Edna Brown (Currently AGAINST the Bill - THANK HER) [email protected]
  
  Jim Hughes - 466-5981 [email protected]
  
  Shannon Jones (the Bills Author - Tell her she's wrong) 466-9737 [email protected]
  
  Kris Jordan - 466-8086 - [email protected]
  
  Eric Kearney (Currently AGAINST the Bill - THANK HIM) - [email protected]
  
  Tom Sawyer (Currently AGAINST the Bill - THANK HIM) - [email protected]
  
  Tim Schaffer - 466-5838 - [email protected]
  
  Bill Seitz - 466-8068 - [email protected]

  
  Thanks for those numbers and e-mails again. I e-mailed every single one of those politicians and told them I am in support of SB5. Thank you.