The Shrinking Middle Class and Perhaps a Manic Appeal to my Conservative Friends.

• IggyPride00

  

  Obama has been a disaster.

  That we are in agreement on.
  
  I just think it is easy and makes us feel good to lay it all at his feet, because then we can avoid the truly scary idea that there might not really be anything we can do to fix this in the near future. Since we always need someone to blame, he makes a good target (well deserved in many respects). As long as we blame it on Obama, we never have to contemplate that maybe it isn't Obama that is the real problem. Because if the GOP picks up a house of Congress to cause some gridlock and "certainty", and things still don't pick up.....we are up shit creek.
• fan_from_texas

  I can't speak for other industries, but in the industry with which I work (energy), the uncertainty is directly responsible for lack of hiring. Because no one is sure how the new carbon cap-and-trade legislation will play out, utilities aren't building new plants, even though they otherwise would like to. They're deferring things as long as they possibly can and not hiring/expanding--directly because of uncertainty surrounding the Obama administration's approach to climate change regulation. As soon as something is pushed through--be it good or bad--they can invest, but they're not about to make multi-billion dollar investments in plants that will run for 40 or 50 years when a major price component (the cost of carbon emissions) is uncertain.
• IggyPride00

  

  fan_from_texas;433647 wrote:I can't speak for other industries, but in the industry with which I work (energy), the uncertainty is directly responsible for lack of hiring. Because no one is sure how the new carbon cap-and-trade legislation will play out, utilities aren't building new plants, even though they otherwise would like to. They're deferring things as long as they possibly can and not hiring/expanding--directly because of uncertainty surrounding the Obama administration's approach to climate change regulation. As soon as something is pushed through--be it good or bad--they can invest, but they're not about to make multi-billion dollar investments in plants that will run for 40 or 50 years when a major price component (the cost of carbon emissions) is uncertain.

  
  Cap and trade is dead, and has been for a year now. Just because things pass the House doesn't mean it will ever see the light of day in the Senate.
  
  Other than Goldman Sachs who was pushing the hell out of of it, Cap and trade was really never realistic. Too many coal state Democrats wanted to part of it, and the Republicans would rather die than pass a national energy tax. It made for a good talking point for talk radio guys to scare people, but the numbers were never there.
  
  The House has passed hundreds of bills that are sitting idle in the Senate and will never be resuscitated.
  
  I am going to hope for the amount of money they spend lobbying that the Captains of Industry in this country know better than to use the House of Representatives as a litmus for what is coming down the pike.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  Liberals don't want to accept reality. Obama scares the hell out of most of the business and financial folks we need to take risks and create jobs.
  
  You watch, if the Republicans get enough power back that they can block anything Obama wants to try and do, and the atmosphere for business gets less hostile, things will begin moving very quickly toward recovery.
  
  If the administration changes and/or loses a significant amount of power and we don't see any job growth -- then you guys can say you were right all along. Because IF you are right, we are in for high unemployment in the long term.
• fan_from_texas

  IggyPride00;433690 wrote:Cap and trade is dead, and has been for a year now. Just because things pass the House doesn't mean it will ever see the light of day in the Senate. . . . I am going to hope for the amount of money they spend lobbying that the Captains of Industry in this country know better than to use the House of Representatives as a litmus for what is coming down the pike.

  
  I should've been more specific. When I said, "cap-and-trade", I wasn't referring solely to HR 2454, but rather to climate change legislation more broadly. While Waxman-Markey appears to be dead, it's very likely we're going to see some sort of GHG/clean energy law over the next 6-12 months. It may be RES/RPS only, or it may extend/modify ITC/PTC/MTC, or it may be a full-blown emissions trading scheme like we're seeing with the American Power Act. It's tough to say. If nothing happens, it will be done by the EPA pursuant to Mass v. EPA. One way or another, carbon is going to be regulated and priced, directly or indirectly. The uncertainty that exists is over how, when, and in what shape that will happen. That uncertainty affects the underlying economics of plants so dramatically that the industry is frozen in place, waiting. It's largely why you see major utilities (e.g., Duke) pushing cap-and-trade hard--for regulated utilities, the issue isn't so much the absolute costs (which are passed through to consumers) as much as it is the uncertainty (which affects whether their investments are prudent and thus recoverable from ratepayers, or whether they must be covered by shareholders). The uncertainty of what the Obama administration is doing has frozen massive amounts of investment that otherwise would be happening.
• BGFalcons82

  

  IggyPride00;433690 wrote:Cap and trade is dead, and has been for a year now. Just because things pass the House doesn't mean it will ever see the light of day in the Senate.

  
  There is a significant rumor running around Washington that says this Congress, if defeated on November 2nd, will transform their lame duck status into a major force that passes everything the statists want. This would include Card Check, Cap and Tax, Single Payer Health Care provider, and repeal of the Bush tax cuts to name a few. How will they do it? The same way they passed the Health Care monstrosity...through "budget reconciliation", where only a majority vote is necessary. Little or no debate is required...just ramrod speed and no conscience.
  
  Since they will never ever have to work again, and could care less about being ever elected again, then what's to stop them? Charles Krauthammer wrote about it earlier this week and said the only detriment to them would be shame. Oh, that's a huge weapon, eh? Keep a sharp eye on how much the Democrats understand their comeupance on 11-2-2010.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  If they do that, Republicans will have campaign material to run on for the next 50 years. It might not matter, though, because the country will be in ruins.
• Bigdogg

  Writerbuckeye;433774 wrote:If they do that, Republicans will have campaign material to run on for the next 50 years. It might not matter, though, because the country will be in ruins.

  
  The Republicans have already put the country in ruins through their give tax breaks to the rich and spend like a drunken sailor policies and you want to put them back into power? No thank you.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  Again, are Pelosi, Reid and Obama Republicans? They are in charge, and are driving this country off the cliff. The last year has been an absolute disaster.
• queencitybuckeye

  Manhattan Buckeye;434441 wrote:Again, are Pelosi, Reid and Obama Republicans? They are in charge, and are driving this country off the cliff. The last year has been an absolute disaster.

  
  When I purchased my business, I suppose I could have blamed the previous owners for a short period of time for any problems, but since I have total control, to do so nearly two years later would have been a little disingenuous.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  Republicans AND Democrats have been reckless, unwise, and shifty. Because of BOTH parties we see the mess we have right now.
  
  Democrats are getting fried right now because they have been the party with all the power lately, they promised change, and they haven't provided it. It's still the same ole same ole, only with more programs to run amok.
  
  There's only a handful of democrats and republicans that are worth a damn.
  
  That's OUR fault because we are the ones that keep voting the flunkies in.
  If we don't demand better from our politicians we will never receive better. And that includes the Presidency.
  Period.
  
  So, while everybody is pointing fingers at the right or pointing fingers at the left, just remember that it's "we the people" who put them there.
  
  It's time to clean house and update the furniture that has been sitting around gathering mold.
• Bigdogg

  Manhattan Buckeye;434441 wrote:Again, are Pelosi, Reid and Obama Republicans? They are in charge, and are driving this country off the cliff. The last year has been an absolute disaster.

  
  So what was all that business at the end of Bush II about when we needed to get TARP passed to hold off unprecedented world economic collapse? Did TARP prevent this or did Obama's stimulus program prevent a worldwide depression? Fact is you don't know what would have happened and it will take years (not just 1) to evaluate.
  
  I know how we got here and I will vote for neither party to continue theses foolish cut and spend or tax and spend policies. It's hard to drive a car off the cliff when its already laying on the bottom wrecked.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  I know what is happening now, we're in a world of shit...and the Obama administration's policies only helped his political friends (the UAW, SEIU workers, state union workers, etc.). The backbone of the American economy took it on the chin, and any recovery will be long and painful. Capital isn't flowing, small businesses aren't growing, there is NO confidence. And it is the young people that are taking the biggest hit with the growing debts and entitlements.
• ~U~

  Capitalism = Greed. I think since the 80s greed has killed capitalism. When the middle class dies the republican party will also die. Not even sure what is going on can be fixed or even where to start the problem is so big. So much for the 'free market'.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  Again how is the GOP going to die (at this point they are the far less of the two evils), in case you haven't noticed the DEMs are driving this train. And they are seriously messing up. They are job killers.
• majorspark

  

  ~U~;434650 wrote:Capitalism = Greed. I think since the 80s greed has killed capitalism. When the middle class dies the republican party will also die. Not even sure what is going on can be fixed or even where to start the problem is so big.

  Of course there is no greed to be found in government?
• krazie45

  

  Everyone wants to make businesses out to be the bad guy, but they're the ones that are starting to suffer. All of these new tax policies and health care requirements are going to cripple small businesses and even larger ones. People bitch because there are no jobs. Well guess what? Businesses are the ones that CREATE the jobs. So we NEED to give them tax breaks and enable them to be able to start businesses. We need to encourage entrepreneurship and stop giving bailouts to businesses that FAILED. We need to provide tax breaks to companies that keep jobs in America, to the point where it would be economically sensible for them to do so. THAT is how you begin to turn things around.
• ~U~

  Manhattan Buckeye;434654 wrote:Again how is the GOP going to die (at this point they are the far less of the two evils), in case you haven't noticed the DEMs are driving this train. And they are seriously messing up. They are job killers.

  
  Incase you didn't notice the economy/stocks busted under Bush. But your probably such a nut that you think this started just now. This all started in the early 80s.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  Yeah, I'm a nut. It busted after it was obvious Obama would beat McCain. Maybe you'll tell me that the internet drop off happened during W's term (even though it started in mid 2000, I remember it well).
  
  Simply put, Obama's administration hasn't worked. He was unqualified, and I don't even know what the solution is. But it isn't a guy that probably got a 90th percentile on his LSAT, went to HLS and never worked a damn day in his life.
• ~U~

  krazie45;434658 wrote:Everyone wants to make businesses out to be the bad guy, but they're the ones that are starting to suffer. All of these new tax policies and health care requirements are going to cripple small businesses and even larger ones. People bitch because there are no jobs. Well guess what? Businesses are the ones that CREATE the jobs. So we NEED to give them tax breaks and enable them to be able to start businesses. We need to encourage entrepreneurship and stop giving bailouts to businesses that FAILED. We need to provide tax breaks to companies that keep jobs in America, to the point where it would be economically sensible for them to do so. THAT is how you begin to turn things around.

  
  No, it was not the American businesses who ran to outsource as a way to escape paying American workers and paying a little more for American made products? While paying CEO's and others big pays with the money saved. Nope, not at all American businesses fault for the death of the middle class.
  
  It scares me some of you people are so blind and arrogant to what is going on. The $ has came before country and after 20-30 years of this the country middle class will soon be no more if something is not done.
• ~U~

  Manhattan Buckeye;434679 wrote:Yeah, I'm a nut. It busted after it was obvious Obama would beat McCain. Maybe you'll tell me that the internet drop off happened during W's term (even though it started in mid 2000, I remember it well).
  
  Simply put, Obama's administration hasn't worked. He was unqualified, and I don't even know what the solution is. But it isn't a guy that probably got a 90th percentile on his LSAT, went to HLS and never worked a damn day in his life.

  You are a nut to think it's Obama that has caused all the problems. It's sad how uneducated some people really are.
  
  1. Obama did not start a unjust war. How much money we wasting in Iraq for a war that never needed to be?
  2. Obama did not crash the stock/economy.
  
  You may want to quit listening to Hannity and Rush for a few days sheep.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  He didn't cause the problem, but he sure isn't the solution. He's incompetent.
  
  Instead of personally attacking me, tell me one thing he's done right....can you? There is no confidence in the business community.
  
  He was unqualified. He went to HLS, worked as a community organizer (WTF?) and briefly held a Senate position. He has no executive experience and is tone deaf to the current situation. If the GOP can't put up a better candidate, they deserve to lose, but I'm not sure the country can survive 6 more years of this.
• Belly35

  

  Public Servant Obama at best .... NOT MY PRESIDENT ....just because you’re elected to the position you have to earn the title
  The President of the United States is not an Entitlement it is a Earned, Qualified and Competent Office
  
  Obama has earned only failure
  Un-Qualified with his Socialist Agenda
  We all know of his Incompetency … he has surrounded himself with incompetency
  
  I will make anyone here a bet .. When Obama and his Administration are voted out they will trash computers, destroy records and documentation and leave many departments in shambles … Why to cove the tracks of fraud, incompetency and corruption.
• queencitybuckeye

  ~U~;434685 wrote:You are a nut to think it's Obama that has caused all the problems.

  
  Wrong way to look at it IMO. The phrase "fix the problem, not the blame" is what's important. Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2? All gone, and all of us can judge them as we will. Obama is the only one currently with the ability to accomplish anything, and will either make things better or worse. To date, only a fool could argue for the former.
• Paladin

  The last time I looked , the American public has the R ranked the lowest of politicans in confidence to do the job. Ds are higher & the Prez higher still. Been that way for several years and there is no change. That is because the policies of the R are well known and rejected despite the continuing mantra of the Right wing here. This is a situation that you can't BS your way thru -- Rs & their policies are rejected -- OVERWHEMINGLY . Why ? -- because they failed and have produced where we are now. All the public sees is a Prez trying and a Party of No opposing him and not voting for anything. What are they for ? More tax cuts for the rich that have already failed. Obama will be re-elected.