The Shrinking Middle Class and Perhaps a Manic Appeal to my Conservative Friends.

• sjmvsfscs08

  haha isadore you're just a fucking joke. It's that simple. My family has earned the success we have.
  
  And speaking of context, NBC fails to show any of that.
  
  You show me a hard worker on welfare and I'll show you someone who's no longer on welfare. It's that simple.
  

  "I think we have gone through a period when too many children and people have been given to understand "I have a problem, it is the Government's job to cope with it!" or "I have a problem, I will go and get a grant to cope with it!" "I am homeless, the Government must house me!" and so they are casting their problems on society and who is society? There is no such thing! There are individual men and women and there are families and no government can do anything except through people and people look to themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then also to help look after our neighbor and life is a reciprocal business and people have got the entitlements too much in mind without the obligations..."
  --Margaret Thatcher

• sjmvsfscs08

  Manhattan Buckeye;438545 wrote: Again I grew up there, I know how these folks operate. Care to continue?

  
  That sounds anecdotal! Evidence dismissed!!!!
• Manhattan Buckeye

  sjmvsfscs08;438555 wrote:That sounds anecdotal! Evidence dismissed!!!!

  
  I knew I should have taken photos! A few years ago I did and people at work couldn't believe what a 3rd world country a large part of the area has become.
  
  My parents' home is literally surrounded by trailers, forget middle class many of these people have never worked and don't intend to work and WON'T work as long as the churches and neighbors support them.
• majorspark

  

  isadore;438502 wrote:The examples are there to show you have shown the attributes of religious zealot shown in your views on the social issues of the day. But it is so much more than just that. Your continuing strident advocacy of the states rights doctrine that has caused produced a civil war and causes untold oppression of minorities in our nation’s history.
  And again we get another of these views from the fringe. The Fair Tax, plagiarized the followers of L. Ron Hubbard. “
  “Scientology's Fair Tax Plot
  The New Republic: Plan Backed By Mike Huckabee Has Roots With L. Ron Hubbard
  http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/07/opinion/main3241621.shtml

  Well I thought your arguments could not get anymore ridiculous. Boy was I wrong. This kind of conspiratorial thinking is just like the nut cases that think the Jews control the US government, the money, the media, Hollywood, or the world economy.
  
  Only you could claim advocating states rights is akin to religious zealotry. I thought the religious zealots were on the side of the feds in the north. You know those crazy religious zealots that wanted to abolish slavery. How about The Battle Hymn of the Republic an abolitionist hymn. Ever read the lyrics? The song became a favorite marching song of the Federal army.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_Hymn_of_the_Republic
  
  See I can make ridiculous assertions too.
  

  isadore;438502 wrote:The article is by Bruce Bartlett, an Treasury official in the first Bush Administration. In the article he does a really great job of showing why Fair Tax can not work.

  Bruce Bartlett has spent most of his career working in the public sector for federal politicians. He is an elitist who has had his nose in Uncle Sam's ass for most of his life. His group of elitist's would be de-balled because of the fair tax. It is no wonder he is against it. As for his article 3/4 utter and completed bullshit. The last 1/4 of the article he attempts to make some real arguments against the fair tax. All of which can be refuted.
• isadore

  Manhattan Buckeye;438551 wrote:No but it is nice to take responsibility instead of being a fat waste of space. Those people weren't sympathetic. If you want us to all do be dependent on the government, that's our future. A bunch of fat idiots.

  
  the making of a right winger, just a complete lack of compassion for those in need.
• isadore

  sjmvsfscs08;438555 wrote:That sounds anecdotal! Evidence dismissed!!!!

  if you had learned to comprehend you would see that in my comments I dismissed those experiences
  why did you put a tape on here from a neo nazi site with racist video? why did you use them to support your argument?
• isadore

  sjmvsfscs08;438552 wrote:haha isadore you're just a fucking joke. It's that simple. My family has earned the success we have.
  
  And speaking of context, NBC fails to show any of that.
  
  You show me a hard worker on welfare and I'll show you someone who's no longer on welfare. It's that simple.

  your ancestors earned you were place of privilege. It still does not make it right for you to punish those less fortunate than yourself. But given the racist sites you cite, no wonder you have such a skewed view of the world. I noticed how you tried to say blacks living in poverty were abusing the system as compared to white recipients. Why did you cite such a racist website, wow the stuff on there was vile. Is that where you go for information?
• Manhattan Buckeye

  isadore;438578 wrote:the making of a right winger, just a complete lack of compassion for those in need.

  
  They aren't in need, their needs are provided for. That is my point. They are fat and dependent, and particularly FAT.
  
  View your own link. A bunch of unsympathetic fat people.
• isadore

  majorspark;438570 wrote:Well I thought your arguments could not get anymore ridiculous. Boy was I wrong. This kind of conspiratorial thinking is just like the nut cases that think the Jews control the US government, the money, the media, Hollywood, or the world economy.
  
  Only you could claim advocating states rights is akin to religious zealotry. I thought the religious zealots were on the side of the feds in the north. You know those crazy religious zealots that wanted to abolish slavery. How about The Battle Hymn of the Republic an abolitionist hymn. Ever read the lyrics? The song became a favorite marching song of the Federal army.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_Hymn_of_the_Republic
  
  See I can make ridiculous assertions too.
  
  
  
  Bruce Bartlett has spent most of his career working in the public sector for federal politicians. He is an elitist who has had his nose in Uncle Sam's ass for most of his life. His group of elitist's would be de-balled be the fair tax. It is no wonder he is against it. As for his article 3/4 utter and completed bullshit. The last 1/4 of the article he attempts to make some real arguments the fair tax. All of which can be refuted.

  Out around the fringe states rights, religious fanatic, scientologist and fair taxers all bouncing around. A lot of them show up for tea party meetings, gives you guys a real comfortable feeling to be with kindred spirits.
  In the antebellum period the states rights pro slavers had their own religious fanaticism. Your intellectual and religious forebearers searched through the Bible for justification for slavery. And with their skewed view they labeled blacks the sons and daughters of Ham, that son of Noah cursed to slavery. And then claimed the United States had no right to interfere with that institution in their states. According to them God and states rights justified chattel slavery
  Bruce Bartlett, a former aid to Ron Paul, who finally saw the light. He and the most respected of economic experts reject the idea as unworkable and bound for failure. And the program mirrors much of the Scientology plan, which preceded it.
• isadore

  Manhattan Buckeye;438587 wrote:They aren't in need, their needs are provided for. That is my point. They are fat and dependent, and particularly FAT.
  
  View your own link. A bunch of unsympathetic fat people.

  you view these people through your own harsh feeling toward your roots. I see people trying to do their best in bad situation. Many suffering from poor nutrtion because of the limits of food pantries and food stamps.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  I view it through reality, an overweight person is an overweight person.
  
  The harsh feelings are why they are overweight, the young girl's trip to the other trailer to get water is likely the most exercise she had that week. These folks simply don't take responsibility, let alone "do their best."
  
  Back your chair off the dinner table, keep the fork out of the piehole, actually WALK or engage in other activity routinely.
  
  These folks don't do it.
• majorspark

  

  isadore;438598 wrote:Out around the fringe states rights, religious fanatic, scientologist and fair taxers all bouncing around. A lot of them show up for tea party meetings, gives you guys a real comfortable feeling to be with kindred spirits.

  Never been to a tea party meeting. But now that you tell me this is where all the states rights, religious fanatics, scientologist people are getting together, I must attend one.
  

  isadore;438598 wrote:In the antebellum period the states rights pro slavers had their own religious fanaticism. Your intellectual and religious forebearers searched through the Bible for justification for slavery. And with their skewed view they labeled blacks the sons and daughters of Ham, that son of Noah cursed to slavery. And then claimed the United States had no right to interfere with that institution in their states. According to them God and states rights justified chattel slavery

  I was illustrating your absurdity with absurdity. My intellectual and religious forebears believe the same thing that I have always believed. Enslaving your fellow man is theft of his labor and an immoral practice.
  

  isadore;438598 wrote:Bruce Bartlett, a former aid to Ron Paul, who finally saw the light. He and the most respected of economic experts reject the idea as unworkable and bound for failure. And the program mirrors much of the Scientology plan, which preceded it.

  These elites care about one thing. Making sure they are needed and in control of making tax laws that control the actions of the people. They care more about themselves and their cronies in Washington than the middle class or any other American. The fair tax takes that power away. It is no surprise they oppose it.
• fan_from_texas

  This thread is pretty entertaining.
  
  For what it's worth, I grew up in a rural area, as well, and my family was by no means well-off (neither parent went to college, dad is a small business owner, plenty of tight times growing up, etc.). But they taught me the value of hard work and sacrifice, and generally I'd say that I'm doing well now. Many of my classmates who were in relatively better positions in life (more money, better opportunities) are still stuck in the small town, many of them unemployed/on welfare, most others working dead-end jobs.
  
  While luck probably plays some role for many people, and SES clearly plays a big role, it also seems to me that similarly situated people often have vastly different outcomes. These outcomes appear, anecdotally, to be an outgrowth of good decision-making vs. bad decision-making. Kids who went to the library, studied, worked summer jobs, and so on seem to have risen out of the poverty, while kids who screwed around, didn't bother trying in school, dropped out, had kids with S/O at 18, and whatever else -- seem to be mired in poverty now.
  
  At some point, personal responsibility has to take its place. If we incent bad behavior, we will continue to have bad behavior. And it is impossible to look at vast swathes of poor America and conclude that we're not encouraging bad behavior. You can't in good conscience be around many of those in poverty and not see the sense of generational dependence and entitlement that goes with that. We're not helping; we're enabling, and we're not providing hope; we're providing handouts.
• isadore

  ^^^^^
  I would like some statistic basis for statement about of “vast swathes of poor America, that would be useful.
  Well lets see what can we do. A modest proposal. We could fit the poor with electric collars with small tv and then recruit some of the self righteous to watch them. We got tons of potential volunteers on this site. And any time they are about to buy a video game, drink a pepsi, not take a minimum wage or worst of all try to make a baby, one hundred volts. Pavlov was right. Or we can just take their money away and let them go hungry.
• isadore

  majorspark;438638 wrote:Never been to a tea party meeting. But now that you tell me this is where all the states rights, religious fanatics, scientologist people are getting together, I must attend one.
  
  
  
  I was illustrating your absurdity with absurdity. My intellectual and religious forebears believe the same thing that I have always believed. Enslaving your fellow man is theft of his labor and an immoral practice.
  
  
  
  These elites care about one thing. Making sure they are needed and in control of making tax laws that control the actions of the people. They care more about themselves and their cronies in Washington than the middle class or any other American. The fair tax takes that power away. It is no surprise they oppose it.

  I sure hope you do go to one. Wear your “ I Love the Kentucky Resolution” Tshirt, you know the one that says “Kiss me, I am a nullificator.?
  Your intellectual forebearers in the states rights movement were much more supportive of living off the labor of others. And they used that doctrine to protect chattel slavery and apartheid. They were bad guys.
  Informed opinion opposes fair tax because it is another panacea to solve all our problems like free silver or solar power.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  isadore;438660 wrote:^^^^^
  I would like some statistic basis for statement about of “vast swathes of poor America, that would be useful.
  Well lets see what can we do. A modest proposal. We could fit the poor with electric collars with small tv and then recruit some of the self righteous to watch them. We got tons of potential volunteers on this site. And any time they are about to buy a video game, drink a pepsi, not take a minimum wage or worst of all try to make a baby, one hundred volts. Pavlov was right. Or we can just take their money away and let them go hungry.

  The video you posted showed it...the worst part for me is that could have been a family reunion.
  
  No one is going hungry. Did those people look hungry to you? If anything some of them could have hibernated last winter and lived through it.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  I have to agree with FFT, this thread had me LOL, literally, on several posts!
  
  M.B. is on a roll and...
  
  Isa, you're such a hippy! haha
• isadore

  Manhattan Buckeye;438670 wrote:The video you posted showed it...the worst part for me is that could have been a family reunion.
  
  No one is going hungry. Did those people look hungry to you? If anything some of them could have hibernated last winter and lived through it.

  
  As I wrote when I gave the site

  isadore wrote: People really suffering, you might enjoy it yourself. You can watch and nickel and dime these folks about some of the choices they made. Poor like the rest of us make some bad choices. You can watch them and feel so completely superior to them.

  
  The poor and undereducated eat a diet heavy on starch. Hopefully soon you can be in the ample bosom of your family.
• isadore

  CenterBHSFan;438694 wrote:I have to agree with FFT, this thread had me LOL, literally, on several posts!
  
  M.B. is on a roll and...
  
  Isa, you're such a hippy! haha

  M. B. is funny, very true when he gets back to his roots. CB call me socialist, communist, warmonger, statist, ellitist, a fool, a joke. those are just a few of the comments today and I am ok with any of them, anything but fucking hippy.
• majorspark

  

  isadore;438661 wrote:I sure hope you do go to one. Wear your “ I Love the Kentucky Resolution” Tshirt, you know the one that says “Kiss me, I am a nullificator.?

  And here I thought you leftists were telling me the dress code at tea party rallies was a white robe and hood. I will gladly sport my Kentucky Resolution T-shirt. By the way Kentucky was a Union state.
  

  isadore;438661 wrote:Your intellectual forebearers in the states rights movement were much more supportive of living off the labor of others. And they used that doctrine to protect chattel slavery and apartheid. They were bad guys.

  Yes some of them were wrong. Bad guys got into power in some states. Just as some bad guys got into power at the federal level. Shoveled the Native Americans of to the most infertile pieces of property our vast nation has to offer. A system of apartheid our federal government honors today.
  

  isadore;438661 wrote:Informed opinion opposes fair tax because it is another panacea to solve all our problems like free silver or solar power.

  Correction: Elitist opinion opposes fair tax because it is another panacea to solve all our problems like free silver or solar power.
  
  The American people need to wake up. Politicians just tell them what they want to hear. Their primary objective is to gain and hold power over the people. Anything else is secondary. Sure they will trumpet themselves as fighters for the middle class. Yet in practice kick them in the balls.
  
  I only hope the middle class wakes up before it is too late and rests power out of the elitists hands who claim to know what is best for them.
• sjmvsfscs08

  Welfare spending goes up.....
  
  
  
  ...and so does the number of people being dependent on it....
  
  
  
  
  
  
  isadore I found those videos via a brief google search. Weren't they on vimeo and youtube? I don't really know what you're talking about. But it works for Democrats to call everyone who thinks welfare needs some tweaking a racist. Isn't that what I said could be happening? You are proof of it with every word you type. Oh I just haaaaaaaaaattttteeee the poor, can't stand them! Plus I'm racist too!!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!!
  
  Get a fucking clue.
• believer

  

  sjmvsfscs08;438822 wrote:But it works for Democrats to call everyone who thinks welfare needs some tweaking a racist. Isn't that what I said could be happening? You are proof of it with every word you type.

  Tried and true leftist tactic...When all else fails, play the race card.
• Con_Alma

  isadore;438708 wrote:M. B. is funny, very true when he gets back to his roots. CB call me socialist, communist, warmonger, statist, ellitist, a fool, a joke. those are just a few of the comments today and I am ok with any of them, anything but fucking hippy.

  
  It wasn't "fucking" hippy. It was simply hippy. You even embellish name calling.
  

  CenterBHSFan;438694 wrote:...
  Isa, you're such a hippy! haha

• Swamp Fox

  BoatShoes,
  
  I found your list very interesting. For the most part, I thought there was sufficient context to understand exactly what the statistic referred to. As recently as a decade ago, I would have been among those who would have been trying to making day into night, black into white, talking points into fact, but the list just gave further support to the contention that my decision to go in a different political direction was absolutely the correct decision. Excuse me while I call my place of employment and ask if I can have my job back. I've been thinking about working into my 80's or 90's. I mean, we're only as old as we feel, right? Perhaps I could set a national record. Shoot, I only have 43 years in now. I know I could probably make 50. I'm so glad you conservatives came along to tell me that I am lazy and should get back out there even though I actually planned for this retirement. My health is terrific. Only some very insignificant cancer treatments that will begin several months before my evil communist inspired Medicare goes into effect, but that's ok with conservatives. I'm sure if they are elected they'll get me a tax cut that will cover those costs. I don't need that Medicare. I hope you folks run on that platform.
• queencitybuckeye

  Footwedge;438271 wrote: I have never lied on these boards...not even one time.

  
  You have been caught red-handed a number of times, and the membership here knows it, so spare us your denials. One of them caused you to slink away from the forum for a period of time, a nice break for all of us.
  
  Hell, your latest diatribe on stock options describes in detail, something that is not a stock option. That sir, is a lie.