^^^This.

Glad its over.

They broke the wheel and got two more.

posted by kizer permanente

the problem is you sent the true heir of the iron throne to a pointless wall. There is no nights watch anymore. The white walkers are dead. The wildlings fought with you. You’re not trying to keep either out anymore. The whole thing was just idiotic to me. And they made Wheels the king when he’s been the most worthless person in the series. 

I think they sent Jon off to be free. It was what he wanted anyway. He didn't want to be king. 

Bran being made the king and stories being powerful was just dumb. 

I think that many people, myself included, are disappointed by what is on the surface of all of this.  At first glance, last night's episode was pointless.  As it is dissected more, I'm sure the "point" of it all will be much clearer, make much more since, and be much more apropos. 

Snow, for example.  I think the whole "Night's Watch" was a ploy to get Grey Worm to shut up, accept it, and move on.  Those who knew Jon best knew it is what he wanted.  It could have been Bran's plan the entire time to send him north of the wall, not to the NW.  Even Jon didn't know that he didn't have to actually accept the black.  I'll be patient and let the maester's figure this one out, and I'll just read from there.

I assumed Bran put Jon up there because that’s what Jon has always wanted; and Bran knows that.

posted by superman

They broke the wheel and got two more.

3 more actually.

I haven't watched one second of GOT, so I can't comment on any of it...however, I have to ask--with so many people slamming the finale, was it really that bad? fwiw, I'm a HUGE fan of the Sopranos, and I thought the finale sucked--I was pissed for quite a while after watching that debacle...is this the case with a lot of you and this finale?

Worst finales in my TV watching career....

Lost

GoT

Sopranos

posted by vball10set

I haven't watched one second of GOT, so I can't comment on any of it...however, I have to ask--with so many people slamming the finale, was it really that bad? fwiw, I'm a HUGE fan of the Sopranos, and I thought the finale sucked--I was pissed for quite a while after watching that debacle...is this the case with a lot of you and this finale?

I thought the ending was meh. My issue was in the final season they had some of the characters do things completely out of character imho. 

I think people build up their own narrative they want to happen. Even more so with GOT because it was a 2 year wait, so when that narrative doesn’t play out they hate it. The ending was good, and imo, not out of character for anyone. The way they got to the ending was very, very rushed. But that’s a product of HBO not having the money to fund a show this expensive and the actors/actresses not agreeing to contracts past this season. It’s sucks, and a more drawn out conclusion would’ve provided a much better explanation on certain things, but what can you do?

I have seen Dany as a maniac since S1. Jon never wanted anything but to live his life free of responsibility. Jaime was always going to choose Cersei. Etc.

The only qualms I have are The Long Night episode and how they executed it. The ending of that episode was what I expected and thought was good, but the hour plus leading to it was pretty blah. It had some gripping moments (Arya library is as good as the show has ever been), but overall it was a lot of shots leading you to believe one thing was going down, then it didn’t. And not having the main fighters all square up with a White Walker is just an ridiculously missed opportunity for an all time great fight scene. And the lack of money for better CGI forced them to just darken everything, which really fucking sucked.

But all in all, they provided conclusion for every character. So it automatically is better than Sopranos and LOST. 

posted by Laley23

But all in all, they provided conclusion for every character. So it automatically is better than Sopranos and LOST. 

This, IMO, was the biggest failure with the Sopranos' finale...period.

posted by Laley23

I think people build up their own narrative they want to happen. Even more so with GOT because it was a 2 year wait, so when that narrative doesn’t play out they hate it. The ending was good, and imo, not out of character for anyone. The way they got to the ending was very, very rushed. But that’s a product of HBO not having the money to fund a show this expensive and the actors/actresses not agreeing to contracts past this season. It’s sucks, and a more drawn out conclusion would’ve provided a much better explanation on certain things, but what can you do?

I have seen Dany as a maniac since S1. Jon never wanted anything but to live his life free of responsibility. Jaime was always going to choose Cersei. Etc.

The only qualms I have are The Long Night episode and how they executed it. The ending of that episode was what I expected and thought was good, but the hour plus leading to it was pretty blah. It had some gripping moments (Arya library is as good as the show has ever been), but overall it was a lot of shots leading you to believe one thing was going down, then it didn’t. And not having the main fighters all square up with a White Walker is just an ridiculously missed opportunity for an all time great fight scene. And the lack of money for better CGI forced them to just darken everything, which really fucking sucked.

But all in all, they provided conclusion for every character. So it automatically is better than Sopranos and LOST. 

I agree with this. The only knock I have on the show is one it could not really control, time. I agree it felt rushed and it suffered from that. But, given that I was good with the finale. People just like to bitch and complain and cannot just sit back and enjoy the ride. For all its flaws, this was still an hell of a show and the last of its kind. I highly doubt any other show will reach its heights in the near future. There are simply too many shows out there to capture the mainstream pop culture that you must watch in real time. 

posted by Laley23

I think people build up their own narrative they want to happen. Even more so with GOT because it was a 2 year wait, so when that narrative doesn’t play out they hate it. The ending was good, and imo, not out of character for anyone. The way they got to the ending was very, very rushed. But that’s a product of HBO not having the money to fund a show this expensive and the actors/actresses not agreeing to contracts past this season. It’s sucks, and a more drawn out conclusion would’ve provided a much better explanation on certain things, but what can you do?

I have seen Dany as a maniac since S1. Jon never wanted anything but to live his life free of responsibility. Jaime was always going to choose Cersei. Etc.

The only qualms I have are The Long Night episode and how they executed it. The ending of that episode was what I expected and thought was good, but the hour plus leading to it was pretty blah. It had some gripping moments (Arya library is as good as the show has ever been), but overall it was a lot of shots leading you to believe one thing was going down, then it didn’t. And not having the main fighters all square up with a White Walker is just an ridiculously missed opportunity for an all time great fight scene. And the lack of money for better CGI forced them to just darken everything, which really fucking sucked.

But all in all, they provided conclusion for every character. So it automatically is better than Sopranos and LOST. 

agree with everything except what i bolded, i'm 95% sure that the show runners were adamant that they wanted to wrap the show up with 2 shortened seasons instead of 20 episodes for the last 2. HBO wanted to wrap it up with more episodes (obviously for the money) and D&D wanted to move on to their other projects and cut the 20 down to 13.

And i'm with you, i think this is where it was headed all along but we didn't get to see the development these last 2 season like we did in the first 6 (the first 4 especially). Little things, like the look Sansa gave the Hound while he was saving her during the riots helped us see how she went from the innocent little bird into the queen she eventually turned into, the last 13 episodes skipped all that nuance and tension, it just turned into a michael bay production.

Overall, I wouldn't say the final episode sucked and that the petition fans are likely big ol' bitches whenever anything entertainment-related doesn't completely cater to their whims.

I would say that the final episode would likely be more satisfying in a situation where you're binging the show than in a situation where you're watching one episode at a time, week by week, like we were all doing with the final season. I mean, when you think about it, the first half of the show was basically the conclusion to last week's episode with the immediate aftermath of Dany going Mad Queen playing out AND THEN the second half of it was basically all the surviving main characters (and a couple throw-ins) discussing what needs to be done going forward.

So, you could say that as an 80ish-minute episode of an overall great show, it was kind of anticlimactic because the big event happened at roughly the midway point and everything afterwards was just talking where any potential situation was defused with no tension (after committing all sorts of war crimes, Gray Worm and Unsullied leave peacefully after Jon is exiled north and Tyrion, uh, gets his Hand position back under the new king AND Bronn simply shows up having gotten everything he ever wanted and more. As a single stand-alone episode of a show, it started out explosive and finished in a somewhat dull manner, but as the conclusion of a rare show I actually got invested in, I'd say it was satisfying. It just took me a little while to come to that conclusion because it was an episode that ended slowly WITHOUT setting up another season, as previous seasons' final episodes (which often were far slower and talky than the action-packed next-to-last were) did.

posted by Automatik

Worst finales in my TV watching career....

Lost

GoT

Sopranos

Wow.   I get it where you're coming from, but....

But I thought "Lost" was decent - if we're talking actual finale and not the last season as a whole.  IMO, they swung for the fences and missed...I'm not going to super-neg them for that.

Sopranos I grew to love.  That last scene gets more interesting every time you watch it.

GoT.....I still don't know how to describe it - a larger-than-life flick stepped on it's dick.  The exposition was lacking, but otherwise they gave us all the important conclusions.  So I very much enjoyed the last season, while also being hugely disappointed.

posted by Laley23

I assumed Bran put Jon up there because that’s what Jon has always wanted; and Bran knows that.

That's one interpretation.

Another is that Bran is pulling strings and is sending Jon away because he's a threat.   And then.....ummmmmm.....you might not want to go down that rabbit hole.

I'll end on this: The show should have finished with the NK.  I just didn't care about the Iron Throne, aside from the conclusion.

Otherwise, I'm satisfied with the "outcomes", even if the plot development didn't support it.

The nihilistic conclusions makes me hate the show....

I recant my earlier statements about the naysayers. I went through the 5 stages of grief over the last season and was clearly in the denial or bargaining stage after Episode 3 that they'd find a way in the remaining episodes to tie it all together. Could have been ok with the ending but the writers rushed the ending of the show IMHO and just left too many plot holes open for an ultimately satisfying ending. 

Of the many things that did not make sense I'll just comment on one thing. It made no sense that the multiplied unsullied would have imprisoned Jon IMHO. He should have just noped out of there and gone beyond the wall on his own after killing her. 

posted by Laley23

... because that’s what Jon has always wanted; and Bran knows that.

That's what the "experts" keep saying, but I'm not sure the TV show actually gave us that.  What evidence did they show us that Jon actually wants to be in the north-North?  Seemed to me like that foreshadowing came out of left field and then all the experts scrambled to explain that plot twist.

I don't know what the books say, but I don't see where the TV show established that he had some special feelings for the North beyond the wall.  Aside from a sort of self-exile from a loaner with a distaste for politics, I just don't see why Jon is so in love with the north-North.  Is this all just based off breaking his oath to have passionate sex with a dirty red-head?!?

posted by FatHobbit

I think they sent Jon off to be free. It was what he wanted anyway. He didn't want to be king. 

Bran being made the king and stories being powerful was just dumb. 

I think most of you read The Ringer.  Interesting theories going around that Bran is not this benevolent force that no longer wants.  Rather, that he pulled strings to orchestrate his coronation.  In other words, Bran is using his powers to benefit Bran.

OK, so then he would have just let the Unsullied kill Jon rather than exile him.  But maybe Jon is still useful to him, somehow?

It's quite different to watch from the perspective that Bran is being chosen....because of Bran's interventions.  He's pressing buttons the whole time - everything that happened was according to Bran's plan?!?