posted by FatHobbit

Well that was predictable and disappointing

I thought it was an awesome episode.  Again, Tyrion dominates - and he was as good as he's ever been.  That said, I totally get that the fan-nazi's will be upset.  There was a lot to legitimately nitpick.  To me, you look at how they spent their time & money this season and you have to think they made some really bad choices.....

Clearly, at this point, D&D are not going to land the plane but crash it.....

The only really glaring issue I had was how Cersei died. Getting trapped in the basement? Come on man. 

I enjoyed it. That was one way to break the wheel. It would have been easy for Dany to just roast the Red Keep, but she was all mad queen and burning and destroying everything that she thought was wrong with Kings Landing. If people are upset about the turn into the mad queen, they have not been paying attention over the course of the show. Each season she did something that was borderline mad queen. Last week was the thing that pushed her over the edge. 

Sure there was other aspects of the episode to nitpick, but I enjoyed the ride of watching it. 

posted by kizer permanente

The only really glaring issue I had was how Cersei died. Getting trapped in the basement? Come on man. 

If she's really dead, I agree.  

Jon's "I've made a huge mistake" closeup was pretty funny. 

i love the episode. it opens up some options for the finale as well.

Fantastic episode imo. Didn’t love the Romeo and Juliet ending for Cersei, but it was perfect for Jaime. The only better death for Cersei would’ve been her trying to get to Jaime, but getting trapped on the other side of rubble or something.

But becoming a coward and running away through the sewers, like the POS she is, only to die down there with all the other Dragons was pretty good. 

I dug this episode a good bit more than anything else this season. Big battle, it was actually light enough to see what happened, all good!

I mean, after the show passed the books and left them in the dust, it turned into more of a "big spectacular event" series than a pure royal court intrigue with a touch of magic series and last night was pure "big, spectacular event" to the nth degree, but it was a really well-done one. The "horrors of war" shots from the street with Jon and then, to a bigger, better degree, Arya was some awesome work; CleganeBowl was a good, grueling fight (and mirroring Sandor's fight to stay alive against Cenobite Gregor with Arya's fight to stay alive in the chaos was really good work, too); Dany's descent into psycho murderess was well done, at least for people who pay attention to stuff and don't need their hands held every step of the way (especially the scene with Tyrion, where her insistence on the word "betrayed" in regards to Jon, Varys, etc. mirrored how Cersei automatically went to that word whenever someone went against her wishes) and I liked the whole end to Jaime and Cersei, with her gradual breakdown as she realized that shit was really going bad for her side.

About the only two real nitpicks I had were:

1. Euron magically washing up on shore right where Jaime was in order to set up a fight. Although, since during his entire time in the show, Euron had magic teleportation powers that allowed he/his fleet to be wherever needed at whenever time he needed to be there, I shouldn't have been surprised.

2. After looking completely clueless while dragonback and confronted with the Iron Fleet last week, Dany turned into a completely efficient machine on Drogan this week, utterly clownstomping the Fleet, the wall defenses and the Golden Company while only have to dodge a couple bolts. Like, that was the most suspense-free bit of destruction ever with her flying around and destroying all those defenses like they were the peasants she was destroying later on.

posted by Laley23

....Didn’t love the Romeo and Juliet ending for Cersei, but it was perfect for Jaime. The only better death for Cersei would’ve been her trying to get to Jaime, but getting trapped on the other side of rubble or something.

I think, like you said, it was a good and appropriate death.

They're definitely dead, but I think the problem many people have is so many shows would have them just barely escaping, unseen, thru a hidden passage.  We don't believe what we saw because that scenario has become almost trope.

The bigger issue was Euron seriously fucked Jaime up, and he should be dead on that beach.....instead he's running thru the castle looking for Cersei.

posted by gut

I think, like you said, it was a good and appropriate death.

They're definitely dead, but I think the problem many people have is so many shows would have them just barely escaping, unseen, thru a hidden passage.  We don't believe what we saw because that scenario has become almost trope.

The bigger issue was Euron seriously fucked Jaime up, and he should be dead on that beach.....instead he's running thru the castle looking for Cersei.

Lol, yeah; dude gets stabbed in the side and is gasping for breath on the beach. And then he's in the castle all like, "Just a flesh wound! I'm good!"

I'll be interested to see how Bronn handles the latest setback to QUEST FOR  A CASTLE, since he threatened the two Lannister boys with death if he doesn't get what he wants and now, one is dead and the other is very likely on Dany's shit list for freeing Jaime right around the time she decided that burning the fuck out of everything was the BEST problem-solver.

posted by Heretic

I'll be interested to see how Bronn handles the latest setback to QUEST FOR  A CASTLE, since he threatened the two Lannister boys with death if he doesn't get what he wants and now, one is dead and the other is very likely on Dany's shit list for freeing Jaime right around the time she decided that burning the fuck out of everything was the BEST problem-solver.

Bronn is fucked. The only way Tyrion survives is if someone kills Dany. 

I'm irritated because I've spent 8 seasons watching Dany grow, make mistakes and then come back to being the breaker of chains. I have no issue with her burning the armies but to go mad queen and just burn the city and all of the innocent people seems out of character for her. 

posted by Heretic

...Dany's descent into psycho murderess was well done, at least for people who pay attention to stuff and don't need their hands held every step of the way...

I don't quite get that either.  It seems like a lot of people are upset how going Mad Queen wasn't fully fleshed out.  I guess I never really felt her motives were all that sincere - always thought it was just a means to an end and she was never really about anything other than power and being worshipped.

posted by FatHobbit

Bronn is fucked. The only way Tyrion survives is if someone kills Dany.

Does Varys getting flambéed mean his little bird isn't going to poison Dany now?  They couldn't possibly get rid of her like that, could they?

I wonder what's going to happen to Drogon when they finally kill Dany.  I guess according to the books, they've taken on new riders before.  But for purposes of the show, it seems like you'd want to be a bit wary of a pissed-off dragon avenging his mother's death.

posted by FatHobbit

Bronn is fucked. The only way Tyrion survives is if someone kills Dany. 

I'm irritated because I've spent 8 seasons watching Dany grow, make mistakes and then come back to being the breaker of chains. I have no issue with her burning the armies but to go mad queen and just burn the city and all of the innocent people seems out of character for her. 

I disagree. She has been the Mad Queen since early S1, and had quite a few moments of it every season to confirm. I would’ve been mad had they laid out her character like that then NOT had her kill a bunch of innocents.

Sooooooo.....does the Iron Bank just take a huge write-off, or do they foreclose on King's Landing?

posted by gut

Sooooooo.....does the Iron Bank just take a huge write-off, or do they foreclose on King's Landing?

Or simply get written off as "that thing the show-runners used from time to time to print money and make veiled threats, but then forget about"?!

As for Dany/Mad Queen, yeah, to me, that's been forecast a lot over the course of the season. From crucifying all those dudes at the one city because they did that to slaves to scare her off (and going from what the minor character that tried to romance her said about his father, she wasn't taking the time to make sure she got dudes who actually were into the slave crucifying) to roasting the Tarlys for not immediately bending the knee and so on. And a lot of her actions being shaped by her council throughout those early seasons. And of those characters, Jorah, Barristan, Missandrei are all dead and Dairio got left behind in the country of "not necessary to the plot any more"; while Tyrion is on her shit list, Varys found out what happens to people on her shit list and she views Jon as having betrayed her due to telling his sisters about his heritage. All of whom showed their fair share of wisdom and nuance while helping her. Which means the one person she might be listening to is Gray Worm, who lost the one person he cares about and has basically reverted back to "castrated killing machine" as a result.

Gut,

As for Bronn, the  main reason I mentioned him is that, to me, he is the wild card for the last show. He wants something and basically has no logical way to get it. He also said his fighting days were over, but his killing days aren't. And he's a very popular semi-regular character whom you can't see the show-writers just easing out of things without conflict. So he could either wind up with a big kill next week, or go out with a whimper trying to make something big happen

posted by Heretic

As for Bronn.....So he could either wind up with a big kill next week, or go out with a whimper trying to make something big happen

That's an interesting theory.  I like it - unexpected and makes sense.  I'm not sure Jon would actually kill Dany, and it seems pretty clear he won't press his claim while she's still alive.  There aren't many others left to do the deed.  I don't think Tyrion can or will do it, and it would be kind of lame if Arya assassinates her.

Read a review that had some next-level feminazism over the portrayals of Dany and Arya in this episode.

How miserable does your life have to be to get triggered by a TV show that doesn't treat every character in a way that aligns with your worldview?

posted by Laley23

I disagree. She has been the Mad Queen since early S1, and had quite a few moments of it every season to confirm. I would’ve been mad had they laid out her character like that then NOT had her kill a bunch of innocents.

 

Agreed. There's been no shortage of foreshadowing for Dany's heel turn since day one. It just felt a little rushed there at the end...would have been nice with a couple of extra episodes to draw it out a little bit more. 

Gendry on the throne when we cut to black? It's starting to seem plausible to me. 

Also, it was pretty awesome how the Lord of Light grew Jamie's hand back for him there at the end. 

posted by fish82

Agreed. There's been no shortage of foreshadowing for Dany's heel turn since day one. It just felt a little rushed there at the end...would have been nice with a couple of extra episodes to draw it out a little bit more. 

Gendry on the throne when we cut to black? It's starting to seem plausible to me. 

It seems like maybe it's mostly book readers that are upset, so I guess the books must give a different impression.  But on GoT, homicidal tendencies?  Check.  Loves to barbecue?  Check.  Serious narcissism?  Check.  Pretty much the textbook definition of a psychopath.

The thing about Gendry is why else keep him around all this time?  He's never been necessary to the story, beyond the first season or two where he was a fake-out on being the next/rightful heir to the throne. So why did they seem to go out of their way to insert him back into the narrative?  I really thought Dany legitimizing him was too much on the nose.  If that was just a misdirection (one that I haven't really seen any critics even pay notice), then it was really badly executed AND a giant waste of precious time they didn't have.

posted by fish82

Also, it was pretty awesome how the Lord of Light grew Jamie's hand back for him there at the end. 

Which hand?  They showed his left hand around her throat.  I never saw the right hand.  Proof?