I wanted to post this in the memes thread in politics but i was afraid i would spoil something if anybody was still watching...

So, what's everyone's guess on who will "sit" on the throne? 

I'm inclined to think it is not someone, but rather a council, like outlined in the Ringer today. This could "break the wheel" that Dany and Tyrion talked about. Jon refuses to take the throne and heads north after he kills Dany. 

https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/17/18628839/game-of-thrones-season-8-finale-preview-who-will-rule-jon-daenerys-tyrion-bran-sansa-gendry

The Council would be the following: 

• The Far North - Jon Snow
• The North - Sansa Stark
• The Iron Islands - Yara Greyjoy
• The Riverlands - Edmure Tully (… wherever he is) (Or Hot Pie!)
• The Vale - Robin Arryn
• The Westerlands - Tyrion Lannister
• The Crownlands - Davos Seaworth
• The Reach - Sam Tarly (if not Bronn in Highgarden!)
• The Stormlands - Gendry Baratheon
• Dorne - The unnamed Dornish Prince

posted by ptown_trojans_1

So, what's everyone's guess on who will "sit" on throne? 

I'm inclined to think it is not someone, but rather a council, like outlined in the Ringer today. This could "break the wheel" that Dany and Tyrion talked about. John refuses to take the throne and heads north after he kills Dany. 

https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/17/18628839/game-of-thrones-season-8-finale-preview-who-will-rule-jon-daenerys-tyrion-bran-sansa-gendry

The Council would be the following: 

To me, the obvious answer is Jon. We spent 7 seasons watching Dany grow only to be trapped predictably into being the mad queen. Jon has been saying he doesn't want to be king and all signs point to he can't avoid it even if he wants to. 

Jon would ultimately feel duty-bound to take the throne.   However, I think he becomes the 1000th Commander of the Night Watch because the White Walkers aren't actually gone.

I think Sansa may end-up on the throne.  Because for all this talk about breaking the wheel, no one has ever actually thought about what that looks like!

Maybe the big plot twist will be Dany kills Jon (and then maybe Arya kills Dany).  Or Drogon will try to torch Jon, but he'll emerge unburnt....with his flaming sword that he'll drive thru Dany's heart.

Some are saying that the gems in Varys’s  ring will be used to poison her like Joffrey 

posted by geeblock

Some are saying that the gems in Varys’s  ring will be used to poison her like Joffrey 

Might be why it was so important to remove his rings.  Though presumably the kitchen girl already has the poison, and she might still carry out that plot even though Varys is dead (he did give her that big speech about "the greater the risk, the greater the reward").

Or maybe Bran wargs into Drogon, does a barrel roll, and Dany falls to her death.

posted by gut

Might be why it was so important to remove his rings.  Though presumably the kitchen girl already has the poison, and she might still carry out that plot even though Varys is dead (he did give her that big speech about "the greater the risk, the greater the reward").

Or maybe Bran wargs into Drogon, does a barrel roll, and Dany falls to her death.

Speaking of Varys, I was kind of thinking about your post from after the fourth episode where you mentioned the focus on Missandei at the end. To me that was one of those things, where as a pure narrative, the focus on her made sense (one of Dany's closest people getting slaughtered after she already lost Jorah and a dragon, adding to her "goin' crazy" descent), but as pure TV, it fell kind of short because on air, Dany/Missandei really didn't share a ton of screen time. Just going off the top of my head, the only memorable scene with the two was probably the first one, where Missandei was being all diplomatic to Dany while translating all the insulting dialogue that Unsullied master was dishing out. But overall, I'd say what I remember her most for were (1) the hilariously awkward joke-telling scene with her, Grey Worm and Tyrion and (2) her and Grey Worm getting closer.

And I think the whole "Varys betraying Dany" is kind of the same thing, except even more shaky when it comes to what we watched.

First, the sixth season ended with Varys recruiting Olenna Tyrell (old women whose entire family was wiped out by Cersei and the city's Wildfire stock) and the Sand Snakes (crazy bitches looking to kill people because Oberyn got killed in a fucking fair fight to the death). He specifically alluded to how they should join with Dany because of vengeance (with the words "Fire and Blood").

And then, other than maybe killing the Tarlys due to not bending the knee, Dany didn't really do anything overly Mad Queen-like in the seventh season and fought with the North against the Army of the Dead, losing a dragon and a trusted advisor/friend in the process AND THEN lost another dragon and trusted advisor/friend the instant they started moving on Kings Landing.

And suddenly, Varys is all like, "We gotta push this chick out because she WANTS power and Jon Snow doesn't, so that means he's a better choice!". Dude's supposed to be this super-clever behind-the-scenes chessmaster and he wound up coming off like this emotionally clumsy dolt who switches sides on the spur of the moment for flimsy reasons.

Kind of like how the Missandrei/Dany relationship got shorted a bit over the duration of the show, I think Varys' misgivings and how they grew about Dany also grew, as he went from on her side to wanting her dead seemingly over the course of days.

posted by Heretic

Kind of like how the Missandrei/Dany relationship got shorted a bit over the duration of the show, I think Varys' misgivings and how they grew about Dany also grew, as he went from on her side to wanting her dead seemingly over the course of days.

It was all just clumsy, like everything else this season.  Just the mechanics of making it happen were pretty awful, and it felt like the beheading was done for shock value as much as anything.  And others pointed out, rightly so, that she was far more useful as a human shield to Cersei.  Visually, though, watching that head tumble down just ahead of the body was serious death porn.

I guess that was supposed to be the final straw, but I agree the whole "Mad Queen" thing biggest problem was she never slaughtered innocents, nor expressed any desire to do so.  But there was always the undertone, and Varys/Tyrion and others always kind of had to walk her back from the edge.  So Varys knows there's a history, probably due to the incest, and he's seen plenty to be concerned with.  Remember, he tells Jon "I'm not sure how her coin has landed...."

It hasn't gotten much attention, it doesn't seem, but Grey Worm also went full war criminal....so for that you kind of needed the Missandei thing.  "Red-shirt" is a bit of hyperbole, but really that whole episode just had so many, many problems.

posted by gut

I guess that was supposed to be the final straw, but I agree the whole "Mad Queen" thing biggest problem was she never slaughtered innocents, nor expressed any desire to do so.  But there was always the undertone, and Varys/Tyrion and others always kind of had to walk her back from the edge.  So Varys knows there's a history, probably due to the incest, and he's seen plenty to be concerned with.  Remember, he tells Jon "I'm not sure how her coin has landed...."

It hasn't gotten much attention, it doesn't seem, but Grey Worm also went full war criminal....so for that you kind of needed the Missandei thing.  "Red-shirt" is a bit of hyperbole, but really that whole episode just had so many, many problems.

Varys and Tyrion had to walk her back from slaughtering her enemies but never from slaughtering innocents. The city had surrendered and was ready to hand Cersei over. That's the issue I have. 

As for a Grey Worm, he was taking revenge against soldiers. I agree it wasn't right but as far as I saw he didn't attack civilians. He wanted revenge for Missandei.

posted by FatHobbit

Varys and Tyrion had to walk her back from slaughtering her enemies but never from slaughtering innocents.

I think where we disagree is I've always felt she was a psychopath.  She has this god/savior complex and I never thought her "concern" for innocents was borne out of anything other than a need to be loved and worshiped.  Listing of the many titles was always indicative of someone who would rather demand fealty than earn it.

If you believe her benevolence was genuine, then yeah it doesn't make sense.  But I see it as simply serving her own narcissism.  I'm not sure the concept of "innocence" is something she actually possesses.  You either bend the knee or you're an enemy - not a stretch for me that she might see the people of Kings Landing as co-conspirators for allowing the throne to be taken from her family (which, by the way, is something Tyrion inadvertently validated - give the mob a reason, and they'll take care of Cersei themselves).

And Grey Worm executed unarmed prisoners who had surrendered.

On vacation and where we’re staying doesn’t have HBO or a smart TV so it looks like I’m watching the finale on my iPad. 

Yeah I never believed in her motives. She was always driven by vengeance to take back what was hers, just as the unsullied were driven by being enslaved. They finally gained the upper hand and took it out on everyone

Looks like that Ringer article I posted was spot on. 

I loved the finale. No complaints. 

so Jon goes from true heir to a wildling lol?

posted by kizer permanente

so Jon goes from true heir to a wildling lol?

It’s where he belonged. 

I liked the finale, no issues at all.

posted by Laley23

It’s where he belonged. 

I liked the finale, no issues at all.

 

If you believed in the importance of this revelation then he belonged on the throne, not as a wildling. Jon you’re true heir. Jon you’re better than her. Jon you need to be king. Jon.... you’re a wildling now. 

I'm not sure I buy Bran as their choice for king. Other than that I have no real complaints about the ending. Arya is off exploring. Sansa finally gets to be the queen she always wanted to be. Jon is back where he belongs. (Too bad Ygritte isn't there with him. They really should have stayed in that cave.) He said all along he didn't want to be king. He was never one to pretend anything he didn't mean. 

posted by FatHobbit

I'm not sure I buy Bran as their choice for king.

Other than making absolutely no sense, you're totally correct.

posted by gut

I'm just surprised that with only 6 episodes left, that's all that happened....

Once again, I was well ahead of the curve [suck my salty balls, ETB].   Although I didn't sign the petition to re-do this season.

The finale was, sort of, ok....but, hey, Drogon - we good?!?

posted by kizer permanente

If you believed in the importance of this revelation then he belonged on the throne, not as a wildling. Jon you’re true heir. Jon you’re better than her. Jon you need to be king. Jon.... you’re a wildling now. 

I have no problem with him as a wildling.  The problem is that he was the true king, and they treated that as inconsequential.  He basically ended-up there as his sentence for being the queen-slayer.  Complete crap - especially coming from YOUR BROTHER.

The ending was not terribly unsatisfying.  Mechanically, it kind of sucked [as did pretty much the whole season].

Jon's off in the middle of nowhere with his dog not having to deal with anyone's shit. Seems like a good outcome to me. 

the problem is you sent the true heir of the iron throne to a pointless wall. There is no nights watch anymore. The white walkers are dead. The wildlings fought with you. You’re not trying to keep either out anymore. The whole thing was just idiotic to me. And they made Wheels the king when he’s been the most worthless person in the series.