posted by iclfan2

Both extremely dumb. Lol no more policing or incarceration...

Congresswoman:

It wasn't an accident. Policing in our country is inherently & intentionally racist.

Daunte Wright was met with aggression & violence. I am done with those who condone government funded murder.

No more policing, incarceration, and militarization. It can't be reformed.

— Rashida Tlaib (@RashidaTlaib) April 12, 2021

Mayor:

Democrat MN Mayor: "I don't believe that officers need to necessarily have weapons every time they're making a traffic stop."

🙃🙃🙃 pic.twitter.com/jyhEcCMN2Q

— The First (@TheFirstonTV) April 13, 2021

Tlaib is dumb for that comment. Then again, not a surprise from the a member of the squad. 

The mayor may be onto something. Cops may need weapons, but nonlethal ones.  In some cases and in some communities, cops have totally lost the trust of the public and use of lethal force. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

With all due respect, you are framing the argument all wrong. Turning into a racial lens all the times does not allow for practical solutions because it immediately establishes the tired same old arguments. 

The framing of the argument, which I think a lot of posters on here could get behind, is a different look at the use of force for the police. More training on using deadly force as a last, last result and more de-escalation training to lower the temperature on stops may help reduce these events. Some cops do see themselves as more members of the military than servants to the community. Reframing the discussion on how to reduce cops being on power trips, reducing the use of force, and new training on de-escalation is a way I think you can get a broader appeal and support for actual police reform, 

I totally agree, we can't continue to let cops investigate themselves and clearly they need new training, but I also think that race cant simply be removed from the equation because as has been evidenced here, blacks are seen as more dangerous because of high murder rates in urban communities.  It also applies to power trips by cops.  I have seen plenty of white dudes ask "why was I stopped?" and it goes very differently when a black person tries to ask that question.  Racist perceptions cant be legislated out by laws or mandates, it only can be fought with education.

That being said black people at times like in this situation bring it on themselves.  He had no business trying to get back in the car. When I get pulled over which used to be a lot, due to the type of car I used to have, I rolled my windows down and turned on my interior lights.  I limited my conversation and answers to a minimum and handed over all documents immediately. Even when I knew they only pulled me over because I had 22 inch rims and a bright red magnum.  Should I have to do that?  Absolutely not, and I got very angry when I got home about it, but at least I got home.  Did he deserve to be shot? No, but you open yourself up to that scenario when you do something like that.  I was actually more irritated by the stop this week of the military officer and his treatment over a tag on a new car that the officers didn't see in the back window and treated him very poorly.

If things that have no business being illegal were legalized, the number of cops needed would be reduced dramatically, and weeding out some of the potential bad cops might be able to be accomplished.

posted by queencitybuckeye

If things that have no business being illegal were legalized, the number of cops needed would be reduced dramatically, and weeding out some of the potential bad cops might be able to be accomplished.

this is a great point.  We have way too many laws.  Also, failure to use a turn signal or other minor infractions, shouldn't open a person up to being detained and losing all of your rights at a traffic stop.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Tlaib is dumb for that comment. Then again, not a surprise from the a member of the squad. 

The mayor may be onto something. Cops may need weapons, but nonlethal ones.  In some cases and in some communities, cops have totally lost the trust of the public and use of lethal force. 

You want to send a cop into a situation with a nonlethal weapon against criminals who potentially have lethal weapons? 

posted by Al Bundy

You want to send a cop into a situation with a nonlethal weapon against criminals who potentially have lethal weapons? 

In some areas...yes. 

The police in some areas have lost the moral high ground on the concept of deadly force. Also, I would like a study into how many traffic or overall stops involve the person having a lethal weapon like a gun. If I had to guess, I would say it is a very small percentage. We are not living in the 80s and 90s anymore. 

If anything, a comment refrain from all the killings the last few years is the same, "Stop killing us."

Eliminate victimless crimes before disarming police. 

posted by justincredible

Eliminate victimless crimes before disarming police. 

Sure, agree actually. But, what is easier to do in the short term, and easier to do at a local level? 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Tlaib is dumb for that comment. Then again, not a surprise from the a member of the squad. 

The mayor may be onto something. Cops may need weapons, but nonlethal ones.  In some cases and in some communities, cops have totally lost the trust of the public and use of lethal force. 

The problem is, traffic stops are one of, if not the most, highest risk activity for police (I think domestic violence calls are up there too). You are walking up to a tinted window with no idea what is waiting for you inside. 

Link that supports they’re dangerous. And this is only deaths.

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2019-statistics-on-law-enforcement-officers-killed-in-the-line-of-duty

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Sure, agree actually. But, what is easier to do in the short term, and easier to do at a local level? 

Disarmings cops is easier, sure. It's just that it's a bad idea. 

posted by iclfan2

The problem is, traffic stops are one of, if not the most, highest risk activity for police (I think domestic violence calls are up there too). You are walking up to a tinted window with no idea what is waiting for you inside. 

Link that supports they’re dangerous. And this is only deaths.

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2019-statistics-on-law-enforcement-officers-killed-in-the-line-of-duty

I get that. In certain areas though the use of deadly force backfires as the police has lost the entire community.  I'm not saying all cops should be disarmed of deadly force, that in certain areas where the community does not trust them and where they have a bad track record, the use of deadly force should be either reduced or eliminated. 

There should also be better training and education on de-escalation training that may help reduce or eliminate those incidents of deadly force.  

It is complicated sure, but I also think we need to look at police as more community servants, and not military like, which is how they like to think of themselves. 

Compounding all of this is the question of who in their right mind would want to be a cop?  I would never in a million years take on this job.  I imagine a lot of people feel this way more and more.  If that's true, the pool of people willing to do it will shrink and become less and less talented.  Then what?  

The CoMmOn SeNsE approach to resolving a lot of this shit would be to change laws where people do not have to interact with cops as much (i.e. legalizing drugs). 

Ex-Brooklyn Center, MN police officer Kim Potter arrested, charged with manslaughter in fatal shooting of Daunte Wright

— Breaking911 (@Breaking911) April 14, 2021

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Compounding all of this is the question of who in their right mind would want to be a cop?  I would never in a million years take on this job.  I imagine a lot of people feel this way more and more.  If that's true, the pool of people willing to do it will shrink and become less and less talented.  Then what?  

Agreed. And as we’ve seen in the last year, it results in higher crime rates. Which is why multiple places who tried to defund had to go back and hire more. 

posted by iclfan2

Both extremely dumb. Lol no more policing or incarceration...

Congresswoman:

It wasn't an accident. Policing in our country is inherently & intentionally racist.

Daunte Wright was met with aggression & violence. I am done with those who condone government funded murder.

No more policing, incarceration, and militarization. It can't be reformed.

— Rashida Tlaib (@RashidaTlaib) April 12, 2021

Mayor:

Democrat MN Mayor: "I don't believe that officers need to necessarily have weapons every time they're making a traffic stop."

🙃🙃🙃 pic.twitter.com/jyhEcCMN2Q

— The First (@TheFirstonTV) April 13, 2021

Mind numbing.

They need to spend the weekend in the cruiser with the police.  They'll start to come to their senses real quick.  

posted by superman

I didn't say it doesn't exist. 

I've also never said it shouldn't exist. 

Racial profiling exists for a reason.  It works. 

I've been pulled over, cuffed and searched for being white in the wrong neighborhood. Guess what I did, I complied with police orders. Guess what else I did? Survived. 

It is actually 'criminal profiling' ............not racial profiling.   

But the race baiters want to call it racial profiling and the sheep believe it. 

BTW, criminal profiling works, and saves lives. 

https://www.dailywire.com/news/students-at-georgetown-university-support-voting-reforms-then-find-out-theyre-from-georgias-new-law?utm_campaign=dw_newsletter&utm_medium=email&_hsmi=121307255&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-9v5AC9xAjYsYkIkAAapkgc-s_urR5I88UIme6M8BErDG1jhvziQQ0MJMLKxsuTHPZ2qOGfmKQzjzaiZdCBJ8y07jI6KA&utm_content=non_insiders&utm_source=housefile

not shocking

https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2021/04/15/texas-senate-defies-ncaa-gives-transgender-athlete-ban-initial-approval/

Excellent move on behalf of young girls trying to compete as athletes

No chance the house doesn't flip in 2022.

posted by Spock

https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2021/04/15/texas-senate-defies-ncaa-gives-transgender-athlete-ban-initial-approval/

Excellent move on behalf of young girls trying to compete as athletes

I don't have kids nor am involved in any youth sports, but is this an issue? I hear it talked about, but do not know any real numbers to it. 

posted by Spock

https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2021/04/15/texas-senate-defies-ncaa-gives-transgender-athlete-ban-initial-approval/

Excellent move on behalf of young girls trying to compete as athletes

Inventing an issue where there isn't one.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Inventing an issue where there isn't one.

Not in numbers, but when a meaty oaker male athlete transitions and beats your more skilled daughter based on superior size/strength, you would care. Might not matter in most cases, but when you're talking about champion-level stuff, you would. And should.

I've seen several instances of trans girls smoking the competition at various HS track and field state championships. It's definitely happening. It definitely shouldn't be.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I don't have kids nor am involved in any youth sports, but is this an issue? I hear it talked about, but do not know any real numbers to it. 

Is this an issue?  You automatically are the worst poster of all time for that comment.