Progressives, part 3...

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O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

Thu, Mar 26, 2020 10:32 PM
posted by gut

If even a few dozen infected people were kept out, it could make a big difference in where we would otherwise be currently.

It obviously didn't stop the virus from coming here, but delay is the name of the game.

If it were just that aspect, perhaps.

Given the sum total, though, the holes add up more than the prevention does.  Considerably.

like_that

1st Team All-PWN

Sun, Mar 29, 2020 6:25 AM

https://twitter.com/sunnyright/status/1244091824446345223?s=21

I see we are at the “let’s shame rich people for their large donations” stage of this pandemic.  It’s incredible that people actually think this is a mic drop argument.  
 

 

justincredible

Honorable Admin

Sun, Mar 29, 2020 9:28 AM
posted by like_that

https://twitter.com/sunnyright/status/1244091824446345223?s=21

I see we are at the “let’s shame rich people for their large donations” stage of this pandemic.  It’s incredible that people actually think this is a mic drop argument.  

Do they not know that net worth is the not the same as how much cash they actually have, or are they being dishonest for the clout?

 

Dr Winston O'Boogie

Senior Member

Sun, Mar 29, 2020 9:39 AM
posted by like_that

https://twitter.com/sunnyright/status/1244091824446345223?s=21

I see we are at the “let’s shame rich people for their large donations” stage of this pandemic.  It’s incredible that people actually think this is a mic drop argument.  
 

 

"Cool experiment. After doing it, how much did you donate?"

 

"Nothing"

like_that

1st Team All-PWN

Sun, Mar 29, 2020 10:35 AM
posted by justincredible

Do they not know that net worth is the not the same as how much cash they actually have, or are they being dishonest for the clout?

 

No they don't.  I am not taking credit for this analogy since i saw it in the comments, but these people literally believe all billionaires are like uncle scrooge with a secret vault of cash and gold coins. 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

"Cool experiment. After doing it, how much did you donate?"

 

"Nothing"


We all should just ridicule everyone at grocery stores when they decide to donate $1 for whatever is the charitable cause of the week.

 

Heretic

Son of the Sun

Sun, Mar 29, 2020 12:38 PM
posted by like_that

https://twitter.com/sunnyright/status/1244091824446345223?s=21

I see we are at the “let’s shame rich people for their large donations” stage of this pandemic.  It’s incredible that people actually think this is a mic drop argument.  
 

 

Yeah, it is possibly the most stupid argument of all time. Who gives a fuck what percent of a person's worth $25M is? It's still $25M and that's a hell of a lot money AND definitely a hell of a lot more than all the "he only gave a tiny percent!!!!" bitches could ever donate if they lived 100 lifetimes. Just an inferiority complex: "They're way more successful, famous and popular than I am...BUT I'M CLAIMING MORAL SUPERIORITY!!!!!"

QuakerOats

Senior Member

Mon, Mar 30, 2020 10:49 AM
posted by O-Trap

Not much, if any.

 

 

oh, ok

Heretic

Son of the Sun

Mon, Mar 30, 2020 12:19 PM
posted by O-Trap

Well, the majority of travel to and from China is by US citizens and residents, so we didn't really stop the movement.

Just as well, we get more tourism from Japan and the UK than we do China, and I'd wager those places already had cases as well.

All in, maybe we stopped a small percentage of possible carriers.

The idea it worked notably well only holds up as long as we believe it was contained in China at the time, and even then, we're only looking at maybe 35-40% of the possible carriers prevented entrance.

When you then include the visitors from Japan and the UK, you're now looking at about 35-40% (percentage of normal visitors from China) of maybe 20-25% (the percentage of visitors from the top three nations, all of which likely had carriers by that points).

And truthfully, that doesn't even take into account any carriers who were already here, making the impact on the current situation even smaller.

I'd say that any help that could/should have done probably was mostly nullified by our overall stupidity, making it pretty much a non-player in the grand scheme of things. Taking steps to keep out that darn "foreign menace" is good and all, but when you have things like right wing commentators spreading "hoax" rumors, idiot spring breakers taking the "party OR DIE!!!!" attitude, some states being super-resistant to even the concept of social distancing and so on, it gets kind of clear that our population has enough stupidity in it that shit was gonna get real regardless of what was done.

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

Mon, Mar 30, 2020 2:33 PM
posted by QuakerOats

oh, ok

I already explained it.  Non-US residents/citizens only account for about 35-40% of the travel to and from China, which means that 60-65% of the people who normally could come to the US could still do so, and they're just a susceptible.

Now, given the fact that China lied about this and brushed it under the rug in the early stages, it's highly likely that it had already spread to other nations which also have a lot of international travel: namely the UK and Japan.  There's more travel from those countries than China.  Combined, they account for about three times as much total travel to the US than that which comes from China.

So, again, the ban only works on a notable level if two things are true:

(a) The virus was, at the time, contained in China, and
(b) The ban stopped the majority of travel from China to the US

Neither is true.  The virus had already left China, thanks to the Chinese government downplaying it.  And the majority of travel to and from China was still allowed to take place, because the majority of travel to and from China is from US citizens and residents.

And I'm not even taking into account any travel from any country other than the top three.  I'm also not taking into account the number of cases that might have already been here before the ban began (thank Winnie the Pooh for that one).

If we JUST look at the top three nations that travel to and from the US, banning ALL Chinese travel would account for only 25%.  And since we still allowed citizens and residents to pass through, we only banned 35-40% of that 25%.  That's 8.75% to 10% of the possible carriers from just the top three countries.  Add in the rest, and the number gets smaller.  Add in the number of cases that might already have been in the US and it gets smaller still.

But by all means, if the ban makes you feel good, then enjoy it, but it's feelings-based all the same.
 

posted by Heretic

I'd say that any help that could/should have done probably was mostly nullified by our overall stupidity, making it pretty much a non-player in the grand scheme of things. Taking steps to keep out that darn "foreign menace" is good and all, but when you have things like right wing commentators spreading "hoax" rumors, idiot spring breakers taking the "party OR DIE!!!!" attitude, some states being super-resistant to even the concept of social distancing and so on, it gets kind of clear that our population has enough stupidity in it that shit was gonna get real regardless of what was done.

Yep.  My neighbors on BOTH sides are still having social gatherings almost daily.

Just as well, while I'm as big a fan of distrust of government as there is, it doesn't mean I think it's okay to be an idiot.  I may disagree with government mandates, but that doesn't mean what's mandated isn't a good idea.

I think mandating seat belts or traffic speeds is bullshit, but I don't break those bullshit laws because the actions themselves are smart.

I've seen some Billy Badass wannabes intentionally avoiding social distancing because they think it somehow gives them some sort of tough guy cred, not knowing it actually just makes them look like a dipshit.

In summation, I think you're right.  People are stupid, and that stupidity negated what little effectiveness the ban might have otherwise had.

 

gut

Senior Member

Mon, Mar 30, 2020 2:49 PM

Has there been any backlash yet on all the singers that performed on Elton John's special last night?  I have to believe there's a few blue checkmarks outraged it was broadcast on Fox.

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

Mon, Mar 30, 2020 2:59 PM
posted by gut

Has there been any backlash yet on all the singers that performed on Elton John's special last night?  I have to believe there's a few blue checkmarks outraged it was broadcast on Fox.

Man, I missed this.  The outrage should be glorious.

QuakerOats

Senior Member

Mon, Mar 30, 2020 5:08 PM
posted by O-Trap

I already explained it.  Non-US residents/citizens only account for about 35-40% of the travel to and from China, which means that 60-65% of the people who normally could come to the US could still do so, and they're just a susceptible.

Now, given the fact that China lied about this and brushed it under the rug in the early stages, it's highly likely that it had already spread to other nations which also have a lot of international travel: namely the UK and Japan.  There's more travel from those countries than China.  Combined, they account for about three times as much total travel to the US than that which comes from China.

So, again, the ban only works on a notable level if two things are true:

(a) The virus was, at the time, contained in China, and
(b) The ban stopped the majority of travel from China to the US

Neither is true.  The virus had already left China, thanks to the Chinese government downplaying it.  And the majority of travel to and from China was still allowed to take place, because the majority of travel to and from China is from US citizens and residents.

And I'm not even taking into account any travel from any country other than the top three.  I'm also not taking into account the number of cases that might have already been here before the ban began (thank Winnie the Pooh for that one).

If we JUST look at the top three nations that travel to and from the US, banning ALL Chinese travel would account for only 25%.  And since we still allowed citizens and residents to pass through, we only banned 35-40% of that 25%.  That's 8.75% to 10% of the possible carriers from just the top three countries.  Add in the rest, and the number gets smaller.  Add in the number of cases that might already have been in the US and it gets smaller still.

But by all means, if the ban makes you feel good, then enjoy it, but it's feelings-based all the same.

 

 

"Dr. Anthony Fauci: Travel Ban To China Absolutely Made A Difference"

 

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/03/12/dr_anthony_fauci_travel_ban_to_china_absolutely_made_a_difference.html

 

 

Take care.

iclfan2

Reppin' the 330/216/843

Tue, Mar 31, 2020 9:57 AM

What are the progs angry about this week already? Pillow guy went on TV with Trump bc he is making masks and brought up God, and Samaritan's purse built a field hospital in central park but since they believe in the sanctity of marriage it is unacceptable. 

Brooks Brothers and New Balance are also helping to make masks, any other Companies anyone has seen? (I know car companies helping with ventilators). 

justincredible

Honorable Admin

Tue, Mar 31, 2020 10:03 AM

TSC Apparel is making cotton masks with their Tultex brand.

like_that

1st Team All-PWN

Tue, Mar 31, 2020 10:45 AM
posted by iclfan2

What are the progs angry about this week already? Pillow guy went on TV with Trump bc he is making masks and brought up God, and Samaritan's purse built a field hospital in central park but since they believe in the sanctity of marriage it is unacceptable. 

Brooks Brothers and New Balance are also helping to make masks, any other Companies anyone has seen? (I know car companies helping with ventilators). 

A lot of "progressives" are getting mad at businesses and rich people for helping out.  This is why this thread exists.  How can anyone take them seriously?

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

Tue, Mar 31, 2020 11:41 AM
posted by iclfan2

What are the progs angry about this week already? Pillow guy went on TV with Trump bc he is making masks and brought up God, and Samaritan's purse built a field hospital in central park but since they believe in the sanctity of marriage it is unacceptable. 

Brooks Brothers and New Balance are also helping to make masks, any other Companies anyone has seen? (I know car companies helping with ventilators).
 

posted by justincredible

TSC Apparel is making cotton masks with their Tultex brand.

Aha!  Those evil corporate minions at work again!
 

 

ptown_trojans_1

Moderator

Tue, Mar 31, 2020 11:52 AM
posted by iclfan2

What are the progs angry about this week already? Pillow guy went on TV with Trump bc he is making masks and brought up God, and Samaritan's purse built a field hospital in central park but since they believe in the sanctity of marriage it is unacceptable. 

Brooks Brothers and New Balance are also helping to make masks, any other Companies anyone has seen? (I know car companies helping with ventilators). 

The My Pillow guy started fine actually, and kudos to him for what he is doing, but then he went all cray cray: 

“God gave us grace on November 8, 2016, to change the course we were on,” Lindell began, referencing the day Trump was elected president. “Taken out of our schools and lives, a nation had turned its back on God.”

 “I encourage you to use this time at home to get back in the Word, read our Bibles and spend time with our families.”

“Our president gave us so much hope. Where just a few short months ago, we had the best economy, the lowest unemployment, and wages going up, it was amazing,” he continued, as Trump stood behind him expressionless. “With our great president, vice president and this administration and all the great people in this country praying daily, we will get through this and get back to a place that’s stronger and safer than ever.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/30/my-pillow-lindell-trump-coronavirus-156335

Not the time nor place for that. Save it. You are there to brief the country about what your company is doing to help, not throw praise and pitch your views. Other CEOs did not do that. 

All the companies that are doing stuff is great and I hope more do step up to the plate and do more. 

My company, a heavy civil construction firm, is donating all of our PPE we have in storage to local hospitals. 

Dr Winston O'Boogie

Senior Member

Tue, Mar 31, 2020 11:52 AM

I would like it if everyone who wants to be critical of  how much a rich person is donating or how a company they don't like is helping would then show us exactly what they have done to help.  I would guess most would have to answer that they haven't done anything.  It would be great if everyone could just be grateful for every act of generosity that is occurring now - however big or small.  

 

"I saw you hold that door open for those ladies."
"Yeah"
"Well, I've seen you bench press 400 punds.  Holding one door open to you is nothing.  You should have held five doors open concurrently.  Greedy asshole."

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

Tue, Mar 31, 2020 12:21 PM
posted by ptown_trojans_1

Not the time nor place for that. Save it. You are there to brief the country about what your company is doing to help, not throw praise and pitch your views. Other CEOs did not do that. 

All the companies that are doing stuff is great and I hope more do step up to the plate and do more. 

My company, a heavy civil construction firm, is donating all of our PPE we have in storage to local hospitals. 

Yeah, I've got to agree.  That was fracturing language.  Not the time for that.
 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I would like it if everyone who wants to be critical of  how much a rich person is donating or how a company they don't like is helping would then show us exactly what they have done to help.  I would guess most would have to answer that they haven't done anything.  It would be great if everyone could just be grateful for every act of generosity that is occurring now - however big or small.  

 

"I saw you hold that door open for those ladies."
"Yeah"
"Well, I've seen you bench press 400 punds.  Holding one door open to you is nothing.  You should have held five doors open concurrently.  Greedy asshole."

I've seen one reply with, "I haven't done anything, because I don't have anything to spare."  He then went on to pontificate about how the reason he had nothing to spare was because guys like Bezos were hoarding all the wealth, as though this guy would have done something crazy different with his life if it weren't for those greedy billionaires.

This is the sort of person who regularly uses the hashtag #eattherich, so take that for what it's worth.

 

Dr Winston O'Boogie

Senior Member

Tue, Mar 31, 2020 12:36 PM
posted by O-Trap

Yeah, I've got to agree.  That was fracturing language.  Not the time for that.
 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I would like it if everyone who wants to be critical of  how much a rich person is donating or how a company they don't like is helping would then show us exactly what they have done to help.  I would guess most would have to answer that they haven't done anything.  It would be great if everyone could just be grateful for every act of generosity that is occurring now - however big or small.  

 

"I saw you hold that door open for those ladies."
"Yeah"
"Well, I've seen you bench press 400 punds.  Holding one door open to you is nothing.  You should have held five doors open concurrently.  Greedy asshole."

I've seen one reply with, "I haven't done anything, because I don't have anything to spare."  He then went on to pontificate about how the reason he had nothing to spare was because guys like Bezos were hoarding all the wealth, as though this guy would have done something crazy different with his life if it weren't for those greedy billionaires.

This is the sort of person who regularly uses the hashtag #eattherich, so take that for what it's worth.

 

"I told you, I can't because I don't have anything to give.  Now, I'm off to yoga where I can hopefully forget your vicious accusations."

At a macro level, I do think economic inequality is problematic.  It's not because of individual entrepreneurs though.  There are a lot of factors including outsourcing a huge sector of our economy that used to provide income for the majority of the middle class.  But these are policy issues, not the result of individuals achieving.  Many CEOs are exceptions.  I've worked in the private sector for a long time at several different companies.  I believe the average CEO is not very good at his / her job.  Many are there because they are political animals.  The pay and other compensation these people receive is unjustifiable.  But their boards are usually made up of like-minded political animals.  

Spock

Senior Member

Tue, Mar 31, 2020 12:46 PM

Supply and demand.......if corporations want to pay their top people less, let them.  See what that gets them.

gut

Senior Member

Tue, Mar 31, 2020 1:00 PM

It's outrage culture, combined with virtue-signaling.  All the cable news, Rush Limbaugh, etc....people tune-in to get angry and bitch about what the other side is doing.  If the moderates (a.k.a most of the population) would just tell the nutjobs to STFU we'd have much more productive debates.

Dr Winston O'Boogie

Senior Member

Tue, Mar 31, 2020 1:26 PM
posted by gut

It's outrage culture, combined with virtue-signaling.  All the cable news, Rush Limbaugh, etc....people tune-in to get angry and bitch about what the other side is doing.  If the moderates (a.k.a most of the population) would just tell the nutjobs to STFU we'd have much more productive debates.

Moderates do this, but radicalized righties and lefties see moderates as the misled sheep. 

gut

Senior Member

Tue, Mar 31, 2020 1:35 PM
posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Moderates do this, but radicalized righties and lefties see moderates as the misled sheep. 

When moderates don't vote, or don't support their politicians, then the political class ends up catering to the ones that do.

Moderates allow the radicals to be relevant.

QuakerOats

Senior Member

Tue, Mar 31, 2020 2:00 PM

 

Hundreds of millions rely on prayer to help them get through tough situations.

 

 

So “cray, cray”

 

 

wow