posted by CenterBHSFan

And since I'm here, let's talk about Harvard adding its name to the list of schools that are having segregated graduation ceremonies!

https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/09/health/harvard-black-commencement-ceremony-trnd/index.html

But by all means, let us click back a handful of pages here to see how hurt black people are to walk down a street and see a statue that reminds them of segregation, Jim Crow, slavery, etc. What fun times we shall have to reminisce about those echoes of strife!

This happened last year. 

You're right hah! Nothing like NOT seeing the date of "2017/05/09" right there in the middle of everything. 

posted by CenterBHSFan

You're right hah! Nothing like NOT seeing the date of "2017/05/09" right there in the middle of everything. 

A lot of people have been reviving this story.  It was ridiculous then, and it is still ridiculous if they did the same thing this year.

Well, I just am confounded by the idea. This country worked really hard to get past systemic practices, leave them in the past, to the point where people just don't even think about it anymore. IMO that's a good thing. 

I've long been against the usage of prefixes to names because it sparks segregation. I don't like the idea of fishbowling black people either for black history month (I don't think any group of people should be fishbowled, it's condescending). All these things do in the long run is "other-ize" people, which is not the direction we want to take.

As far as I can tell, nothing is going to change people's mind about it, so oh well.

posted by CenterBHSFan

Well, I just am confounded by the idea. This country worked really hard to get past systemic practices, leave them in the past, to the point where people just don't even think about it anymore. IMO that's a good thing. 

I've long been against the usage of prefixes to names because it sparks segregation. I don't like the idea of fishbowling black people either for black history month (I don't think any group of people should be fishbowled, it's condescending). All these things do in the long run is "other-ize" people, which is not the direction we want to take.

As far as I can tell, nothing is going to change people's mind about it, so oh well.

 

Agreed.

I DO NOT understand why those complaining about inequality and the like try to segregate themselves at the same time.  Black Graduations, Black Congressional Caucus, Miss Black USA, Congressional Hispanic Caucus, Black Marketing Club...and the list goes on.......

Imagine the horror is you substituted 'White' for 'Black' or 'Hispanic' in the groups above.

posted by wkfan

I DO NOT understand why those complaining about inequality and the like try to segregate themselves at the same time. 

Because they aren't looking for debate, but rather affirmation from like-minded individuals.  It's how you sustain identity politics.

And when you enable the externalization of failure and victimhood, then people want damages/reparations.  Too bad Kanye West is such a dumbass dbag, because for once he actually made sense.  It's not creating a permanent underclass, but something a little different that the Dems critically need to keep winning elections.  If more minorities start voting based on merit, rather than identity politics, then the Democratic party will need to undergo major changes.

posted by gut

Because they aren't looking for debate, but rather affirmation from like-minded individuals.  It's how you sustain identity politics.

And when you enable the externalization of failure and victimhood, then people want damages/reparations.  Too bad Kanye West is such a dumbass dbag, because for once he actually made sense.  It's not creating a permanent underclass, but something a little different that the Dems critically need to keep winning elections.  If more minorities start voting based on merit, rather than identity politics, then the Democratic party will need to undergo major changes.

Dave Rubin had Tommy Sotomayor on his show before. Reparations were brought up. TS said something to the effect of:

Black people probably should get reparations, the problem is how do you do it? Which black people came from families of enslavement, which black people come from families that owned slaves, how much do you give them? Another problem is the expense factor that would be astronomical to figure all of this out, because our government is not known for efficiency or frugality.

We have transferred over $3 trillion in social welfare over the last 50 years; the 'reparations' have been paid. 

It is time for everyone to pick THEMSELVES up, assimilate, and work for the American dream. 

posted by QuakerOats

We have transferred over $3 trillion in social welfare over the last 50 years; the 'reparations' have been paid. 

 

It is time for everyone to pick THEMSELVES up, assimilate, and work for the American dream. 

Most of that went to white people?

If they attended the regular ceremony and had an extra ceremony im not sure what the outrage is.  If blacks had access to regular tv programming or colleges, or a myriad of other things then BET, or historically black colleges wouldn't have been necessary.  They had no choice but to create their own.  Is there similar outrage over the Italian festival or Irish festivals that are held every year? (which are awesome by the way)

posted by geeblock

 If blacks had access to regular tv programming or colleges, or a myriad of other things then BET, or historically black colleges wouldn't have been necessary. 

Do you really believe this??

posted by wkfan

Do you really believe this??

What year would you say blacks could actually go to a white college without military escort or a riot? 1970? 

posted by geeblock

If they attended the regular ceremony and had an extra ceremony im not sure what the outrage is.  If blacks had access to regular tv programming or colleges, or a myriad of other things then BET, or historically black colleges wouldn't have been necessary.  They had no choice but to create their own.  Is there similar outrage over the Italian festival or Irish festivals that are held every year? (which are awesome by the way)

No outrage on my end. I just think the irony is hilarious.

posted by geeblock

If they attended the regular ceremony and had an extra ceremony im not sure what the outrage is.  If blacks had access to regular tv programming or colleges, or a myriad of other things then BET, or historically black colleges wouldn't have been necessary.  They had no choice but to create their own.  Is there similar outrage over the Italian festival or Irish festivals that are held every year? (which are awesome by the way)

I do understand the need for historical black colleges; but that doesn't explain why people want to voluntarily segregate themselves NOW, when this country worked really hard to end that process. They are essentially undoing everything that their parents/grandparents/etc. had to suffer to get. That's what I'm pointing out.

BET didn't invent black tv shows or movies nor did it even trailblaze them. Those were happening before BET and didn't have any reason to rely on it or to continue. ABC, NBC, CBS all carried them, along with the big names in the movie business (although there is a case to be made against blaxploitation). Otherwise, black film did not rely on BET for anything.

Festivals are another thing altogether. Food and drink generally unite people, universally unless you cannot eat certain foods I guess. Hyphenated names (prefixes) do. And it's not just black people who prefix, either. Regardless who does it, it's separatism. I will say that I'd bet many people don't bother doing it because like many other Americans, they're such mutts of heritage that you'd need two pieces of paper to do it. There's also the case if you enjoy dual citizenship you would have a reason to hyphenate, and there are probably people who do just that although we don't notice that as much.

*EDIT*

I formulated some stuff better to be more explanatory of my thoughts, so some things have been added to or changed.

posted by CenterBHSFan

I do understand the need for historical black colleges; but that doesn't explain why people want to voluntarily segregate themselves NOW, when this country worked really hard to end that process. That's what I'm pointing out.

BET didn't invent black tv shows or movies nor did it even trailblaze them. Those were happening before BET and didn't have any reason to rely on it or to continue. ABC, NBC, CBS all carried them, along with the big names in the movie business (although there is a case to be made against blaxploitation). Otherwise, black film did not rely on BET for anything.

Festivals are another thing altogether. Food and drink generally unite people, universally unless you cannot eat certain foods I guess. Hyphenated names do. 

As you can see nowadays bet is almost out of business as it probably isn’t necessary. Years ago that wasn’t the case. Imagine if you watched tv in the 80’s and 90’s and 95 percent of the shows only had black people and when they did have a white Person that person was a pimp a thief or a drug dealer. 

Blacks simply didn’t have opportunity to get on tv 

posted by geeblock

What year would you say blacks could actually go to a white college without military escort or a riot? 1970? 

There are no white colleges......

Blacks have been graduating from many colleges since the 1870's or so..... Sherman Guss was the first black man to graduate from OSU in 1892. William Parham was the first black graduate of the University of Cincinnati in 1874.   In 1828, John Templeton was the first black graduate of Ohio University.

Obviously, the results of integration in southern colleges and universities is quite different, but to state that blacks did not have access to colleges is preposterous.  Stop being a victim.

posted by geeblock

As you can see nowadays bet is almost out of business as it probably isn’t necessary. Years ago that wasn’t the case. Imagine if you watched tv in the 80’s and 90’s and 95 percent of the shows only had black people and when they did have a white Person that person was a pimp a thief or a drug dealer. 

Blacks simply didn’t have opportunity to get on tv 

Not true. 
What's Happening!

Julia

The Jeffersons

Different Strokes (mixed family)

Good Times

These are all shows that I can remember off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure there were more. These shows were all successful shows and didn't all portray drug deals or pimps. 

Just remembered Sanford & Son and Fat Albert.

*edit to add*

Just did a quick google search and looks like these shows were before BET was even launched.

posted by CenterBHSFan

Not true. 
What's Happening!

Julia

The Jeffersons

Different Strokes (mixed family)

Good Times

These are all shows that I can remember off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure there were more. These shows were all successful shows and didn't all portray drug deals or pimps. 

Just remembered Sanford & Son and Fat Albert.

*edit to add*

Just did a quick google search and looks like these shows were before BET was even launched.

 

Lol the train that’s never late. U just named 10 shows that spanned 25 years. I never said there were no black shows on tv ever. 

posted by wkfan

There are no white colleges......

Blacks have been graduating from many colleges since the 1870's or so..... Sherman Guss was the first black man to graduate from OSU in 1892. William Parham was the first black graduate of the University of Cincinnati in 1874.   In 1828, John Templeton was the first black graduate of Ohio University.

Obviously, the results of integration in southern colleges and universities is quite different, but to state that blacks did not have access to colleges is preposterous.  Stop being a victim.

 

 

Lol ok 

posted by wkfan

There are no white colleges......

Blacks have been graduating from many colleges since the 1870's or so..... Sherman Guss was the first black man to graduate from OSU in 1892. William Parham was the first black graduate of the University of Cincinnati in 1874.   In 1828, John Templeton was the first black graduate of Ohio University.

Obviously, the results of integration in southern colleges and universities is quite different, but to state that blacks did not have access to colleges is preposterous.  Stop being a victim.

 

 

So many graduating u can actually list them smh.. ever heard of ole miss riot 1962?

posted by geeblock

Lol the train that’s never late. U just named 10 shows that spanned 25 years. I never said there were no black shows on tv ever. 

I was showing that black shows and movies didn't need to rely on BET to trailblaze for their industry. It was already started and going. And growing. And continued to grow right on to the present day without BET. 

There is nothing for anybody to feel indignant about. I would guess that if somebody felt like/feels like BET was necessary for black people to get a show or movie to represent them then they probably grew up later and aren't familiar with many of those old shows and movies or the timeline that they happened in. Which again, was before BET. 

posted by CenterBHSFan

I was showing that black shows and movies didn't need to rely on BET to trailblaze for their industry. It was already started and going. And growing. And continued to grow right on to the present day without BET. 

There is nothing for anybody to feel indignant about. I would guess that if somebody felt like/feels like BET was necessary for black people to get a show or movie to represent them then they probably grew up later and aren't familiar with many of those old shows and movies or the timeline that they happened in. Which again, was before BET. 

You can tell by his responses that he is aware of all of this, but it doesn't fit his victimhood narrative.

Just a troll and not really interested in free exchange of facts and opinions.

I'm out....

posted by wkfan

You can tell by his responses that he is aware of all of this, but it doesn't fit his victimhood narrative.

Just a troll and not really interested in free exchange of facts and opinions.

Never once did I say bet trailblazed anything.  Lol where did you even get that narrative. I could have listed those shows and a few more. When you compare that to the number of channels and the number of hours of tv during any given day my point is more accurate than yours.