posted by SportsAndLady

All I’m saying is, perfectly clean individuals don’t get repeatedly accused of rape (look at Gorsuch). 

Well, I think that there are a few things that have gone on between now and then. Gorsuch came at a time when dems AND repubs were still kinda in shock over the Trump election, there was plenty of time between then and midterms, people are now learning to be severely skeptical of identity politics which includes #MeToo, people from both sides thought that Trump would be impeached and then removed from office by now, Russian collusion is a farce.

I think all of that mixed in together has brought about a very unhealthy but delicious cake.

posted by iclfan2

Didn't say no way. Said there is no evidence. Slippery slope to start holding people accountable for allegations with 0 evidence. She could be making it all up, but comes off well.

Right but you’re claiming he wasn’t the one, when you have no actual idea if that’s true or not. You can’t say “there’s no evidence he raped her!” And then turn around and say “there’s also no evidence that she has the wrong guy but that’s sure as hell what I’m believing!”

You are a republican and want Kavanaugh in, so you’re saying all this. If this was a progressive judge you’d be HAMMERING him for raping teenagers. 

posted by SportsAndLady

All I’m saying is, perfectly clean individuals don’t get repeatedly accused of rape (look at Gorsuch). 

Define clean, because Duke lacrosse, UVA wrongfully accused rapists, the Columbia University wrongfully accused rapists,  and many more wrongfully accused people disagree.  There are also a shit ton of people saying he is a great man and it's bullshit.  The fact of the matter is this is all he said/she said bullshit and there is 0 legitimate evidence he did any of this.  If you got accused of some bullshit and then people started to pile on with "i saw S&L act like an asshole at this OU party," my guess is you wouldn't have the same sentiment.  I get you are trying to be impartial, but as it stands now with the current evidence, this is all bullshit.  

Also, Gorusch wasn't going to lean the court to a conservative court.  No doubt they would have thrown the kitchen sink if he was going up now.   There is also no doubt they would have done the same thing if Barret was nominated.  There would have been some last minute racism accusations. 

So Kavanaugh was a mean drunk, and not atypical "dickhead jock/rich prick".   Kavanaugh kind of acknowledged that.

Even if Ford was a paid actress, this would be quite a performance.  So she's entirely believable, the only question being the reliability of her memory.  And she listed some names and knew of Kavanaugh before, including who introduced her.  That should be easy enough to verify and then I think I'd accept her version of events as entirely true.

And the reason being, she has people who attest she identified Kavanaugh, and the assault story, long before any of this.  And she initially reached out when he was merely on the short list and not the actual nominee.  So this is not some elaborate hoax.

The other stories I do think more than a few people would corroborate, officially or not.  I think if you Ford is credible, then you don't need people to formally go on the record.  Ford would, IMO, be the end of it.  But if a few people would confirm the other events off-the-record to the FBI then he's cooked.  And that all should only take a few days to a week.

posted by SportsAndLady

Right but you’re claiming he wasn’t the one, when you have no actual idea if that’s true or not. You can’t say “there’s no evidence he raped her!” And then turn around and say “there’s also no evidence that she has the wrong guy but that’s sure as hell what I’m believing!”

You are a republican and want Kavanaugh in, so you’re saying all this. If this was a progressive judge you’d be HAMMERING him for raping teenagers. 

I don't play the #metoo game (without evidence, or even where or when it happened?), so I really wouldn't, or allegationg from 35 years ago when your adult life has been squeaky clean (again, without evidence). I don't even give a shit about Kavanaugh, I just hate the Dems games and if they truly think they can go 2 years without putting someone on, then put Kav through. That's where I am at. There IS evidence she isn't correct it was him, as all people she named have said it isn't true. What other evidence can you look at? If evidence comes out saying he did it, even 35 years ago, then take him don't confirm him.

The setup of this hearing is beyond retarded. Let 1 person ask all of the question, and then have follow ups. It's more Dems trying to build up their election reputation. 

Can't wait for him to not get confirmed so this circus can happen a month from now. Not sure what the process is if it doesn't happen now. Dems think if it isn't before 10/1 it will be after midterms, not sure how accurate that is.

posted by iclfan2

...as all people she named have said it isn't true. What other evidence can you look at? If evidence comes out saying he did it, even 35 years ago, then take him don't confirm him.

To be fair, they may legit not remember or may simply not want to get involved in the circus.  If it was me, and I wasn't good friends with either, I'd probably not want me and my family thrown into the spotlight.

posted by gut

To be fair, they may legit not remember or may simply not want to get involved in the circus.  If it was me, and I wasn't good friends with either, I'd probably not want me and my family thrown into the spotlight.

This crossed my mind, too.  Who wants to be involved in this shit show if they don't have any real skin in the game?

posted by O-Trap

This crossed my mind, too.  Who wants to be involved in this shit show if they don't have any real skin in the game?

That's my rational on why would she be making this up? Why would she subject herself to this? She never wanted this to play out, which is why Feistein held on to it for so long. 

That said, unsurprisingly, people that believe her and were already against Kav are yelling now. People, like on her, that were didn't believe her are not convinced. 

I've come around that this all doesn't matter as the Rs just want to push this through and are just going through the motions today. 

Kav should get confirmed sometime soon. This all doesn't matter as in the end, the Rs just do not believe her. 

I'd like to hear Dr. Ford asked if she thought about contacting someone when Kavanaugh was up for his current job.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

That's my rational on why would she be making this up? Why would she subject herself to this? She never wanted this to play out, which is why Feistein held on to it for so long. 

That said, unsurprisingly, people that believe her and were already against Kav are yelling now. People, like on her, that were didn't believe her are not convinced. 

I've come around that this all doesn't matter as the Rs just want to push this through and are just going through the motions today. 

Kav should get confirmed sometime soon. This all doesn't matter as in the end, the Rs just do not believe her. 

The Pubs were never going to believe her, no matter how credible her story was.  The Louies were always going to believe her, regardless of whether or not there was an credible evidence.

As for why she might?  If she's convinced that the ends justify the means (lying to keep Kavanaugh from the SCOTUS), I could MAYBE see her doing it.  But if any witnesses existed, but they weren't close to either Ford or Kavanaugh, I could see them trying to stay out of it even if they DID remember something.

Democrats sending out fundraising emails during this. It's NOT political though.

Will continue to come down to he said she said and if the couple right leaning people will vote no. I could see 2 repubs flipping. She did throw her friend under the bus who denied knowing anything about the incident (That at one point she said was a witness). None of this would ever hold up in an actual court of law (she would crumble under cross examination), but as the dem talking point has been repeated numerous times "it's a job interview not a hearing". 

I actually don't know any women like this IRL. I hope that this trend amongst many young females discontinues. Can't stop soon enough!

posted by CenterBHSFan

I actually don't know any women like this IRL. I hope that this trend amongst many young females discontinues. Can't stop soon enough!

If I ever happen to meet Brie Larson, I'm definitely asking her for her phone number.

The Democrats have stepped in it.  What a circus.

posted by CenterBHSFan

I actually don't know any women like this IRL. I hope that this trend amongst many young females discontinues. Can't stop soon enough!

 

Forcing the answer you want is assault.

Asking the question is not.

Brie was looking for a reason to be incensed, so she found one.

"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

“They know the optics of 11 white men questioning Dr. Ford ... will be so harmful and so damaging to the GOP.” -- Areva Martin, CNN legal analyst

“They understand that you have all of these white men who would be questioning this woman ... the optics of it would look terrible.” -- Gloria Borger, CNN chief political analyst

“Women across this nation should be outraged at what these white men senators are doing to this woman.” -- Rep. John Garamendi, D-Calif.

“There has been some discussion of the GOP senators who happened to all be ... white men.” -- Jim Sciutto, CNN correspondent

“What troubles me is now there are ... they’re all white men.” -- Jennifer Granholm, former governor of Michigan, on CNN

”You’re seeing on display a metaphor for what this party is, which is basically ignorant white men.” -- “Morning Joe” contributor Donny Deutsch

“All these white men ... stumbling all over themselves asking her, you know, aggressive and obnoxious questions.” -- Asha Rangappa, CNN analyst

“What are those -- that collection of old white men going to do?” -- Cynthia Alksne, MSNBC contributor

“If she testifies in front of the Judiciary Committee, where 11 members are white men ...” -- Susan Del Percio, Republican political strategist, on MSNBC

“Once again, it will be all white men on the Republican side of the Judiciary Committee.” -- CNN anchor Poppy Harlow

“The optics for Republicans are going to be really tricky ... You’ve got all white men on the Republican side here ...” -- Julie Pace, Washington bureau chief for The Associated Press, on CNN

“The Republicans, it happens to be 11 white men still on that side.” -- CNN host John Berman

“The Republicans, it is 11 white men, talk to me about how you think the tone inside this hearing on Monday will be perceived?" -- Berman, a few minutes later

“On the Republican side, all 11 are white men.” -- Berman, again, same show, several minutes later

“What hasn’t changed is the number of white men questioning, certainly, on the Republican side.” -- Dana Bash, CNN chief political correspondent

“The Republican side on the Senate Judiciary Committee is all white men ...” -- Irin Carmon, senior correspondent for New York Magazine, on MSNBC

“Only this crowd of clueless old white guys ...” -- The Washington Post’s Jennifer Rubin on Twitter

Asking about yearbooks... this is what this charade has come to. Holy shit democrats

posted by iclfan2

Asking about yearbooks... this is what this charade has come to. Holy shit democrats

Yep this is all Democrats. Lol

posted by QuakerOats

 

“They know the optics of 11 white men questioning Dr. Ford ... will be so harmful and so damaging to the GOP.” -- Areva Martin, CNN legal analyst

“They understand that you have all of these white men who would be questioning this woman ... the optics of it would look terrible.” -- Gloria Borger, CNN chief political analyst

“Women across this nation should be outraged at what these white men senators are doing to this woman.” -- Rep. John Garamendi, D-Calif.

“There has been some discussion of the GOP senators who happened to all be ... white men.” -- Jim Sciutto, CNN correspondent

“What troubles me is now there are ... they’re all white men.” -- Jennifer Granholm, former governor of Michigan, on CNN

”You’re seeing on display a metaphor for what this party is, which is basically ignorant white men.” -- “Morning Joe” contributor Donny Deutsch

“All these white men ... stumbling all over themselves asking her, you know, aggressive and obnoxious questions.” -- Asha Rangappa, CNN analyst

“What are those -- that collection of old white men going to do?” -- Cynthia Alksne, MSNBC contributor

“If she testifies in front of the Judiciary Committee, where 11 members are white men ...” -- Susan Del Percio, Republican political strategist, on MSNBC

“Once again, it will be all white men on the Republican side of the Judiciary Committee.” -- CNN anchor Poppy Harlow

“The optics for Republicans are going to be really tricky ... You’ve got all white men on the Republican side here ...” -- Julie Pace, Washington bureau chief for The Associated Press, on CNN

“The Republicans, it happens to be 11 white men still on that side.” -- CNN host John Berman

“The Republicans, it is 11 white men, talk to me about how you think the tone inside this hearing on Monday will be perceived?" -- Berman, a few minutes later

 

“On the Republican side, all 11 are white men.” -- Berman, again, same show, several minutes later

“What hasn’t changed is the number of white men questioning, certainly, on the Republican side.” -- Dana Bash, CNN chief political correspondent

“The Republican side on the Senate Judiciary Committee is all white men ...” -- Irin Carmon, senior correspondent for New York Magazine, on MSNBC

“Only this crowd of clueless old white guys ...” -- The Washington Post’s Jennifer Rubin on Twitter

 

Whether or not the optics aren't the best (earlier, I admitted they weren't), it doesn't change the facts of the case.

posted by iclfan2

Asking about yearbooks... this is what this charade has come to. Holy shit democrats

Oh, come on.  You knew it was going to devolve into a shit show.  ;)

Also a good performance by Kavanaugh.  Enough for his supporters and the right wing.....but I think Ford probably changed more than 2 votes.

Put an end to the circus and just have the vote.

what a shit show today was.  

The average guy is sitting here thinking "you mean to tell me he liked parties and drinking?"  "Cool".

Kavanaugh said "beer" more times than Homer Simpson.  He was compelling, but also trying way too hard.

floor vote on saturday.

THey must know that Flake and other center pubs are all voting for Kavenaugh

posted by Spock

floor vote on saturday.

 

THey must know that Flake and other center pubs are all voting for Kavenaugh

I think that's a bad sign for them if they aren't voting today. They originally wanted to vote today.