lol I was waiting for the CC spin.  

Amazing.

posted by Spock

Cohen going to take a sweetheart deal.  Probably on bullshit dirt that has nothing to do with trump

I mean its not like there is audio of Trump and Cohen talking about the thing he plead guilty to or anything, right? 

No matter how you spin it, the following is true: 

• The President's former campaign manager: Convicted
• The President's own personal lawyer: Plead guilty
• The President's National Security Adviser: Plead guilty 

Not a good look for the history books. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I mean its not like there is audio of Trump and Cohen talking about the thing he plead guilty to or anything, right? 

We know the payment happened, but unless there is more of that tape it doesn't prove anything illegal.  Cohen, though, is crooked and seems to be STRONGLY signaling he will say whatever Mueller wants in order to avoid a lengthy jail term.  He's publicly begging for a deal - doesn't do much for what's left of his credibility.

Just please tell me we don't start with 2 year+ investigation costing over $30M on "Russian collusion" and end-up trying to impeach Trump over a $130k campaign finance "violation".  That's a lot different than $100M from Russia to your charity.

If the tape shows he knew the payment was made and it was made with campaign funds, that is something. I know you cannot indict a sitting President, and that may be the only thing that saves Trump. 

As for Mueller. I don't know and neither do you know where this ends. It could be something, could be nothing at all directly tied to Trump. 

I've stated since the start to let the whole thing play out and see where Mueller's team goes. 

posted by gut

We know the payment happened, but unless there is more of that tape it doesn't prove anything illegal.  Cohen, though, is crooked and seems to be STRONGLY signaling he will say whatever Mueller wants in order to avoid a lengthy jail term.  He's publicly begging for a deal - doesn't do much for what's left of his credibility.

Just please tell me we don't start with 2 year+ investigation costing over $30M on "Russian collusion" and end-up trying to impeach Trump over a $130k campaign finance "violation".  That's a lot different than $100M from Russia to your charity.

The Trump water-carrying by Gut is something I didn't expect after 2016 I'll be honest but it is very entertaining. Take a minute and just try to imagine a world where this was happening under Obama. Gut would be hysterical. 

posted by BoatShoes

The Trump water-carrying by Gut is something I didn't expect after 2016 I'll be honest but it is very entertaining. Take a minute and just try to imagine a world where this was happening under Obama. Gut would be hysterical. 

Yeah well, we don't need to imagine what would have happened if it was under Obama because it's largely similar to what's already happened to a sitting President. A special investigation into Clinton's affairs began with a land deal (IIRC) and ended up with stains on a blue dress - which had nothing to do with a land deal gone wrong. I suspect that something very similar of Clinton's results will conclude with Trump. Meaning that he'll be impeached on something but not Russia.

But hell, I'm very reluctant to predict *anything* after 2016. 

posted by BoatShoes

The Trump water-carrying by Gut is something I didn't expect after 2016 I'll be honest but it is very entertaining. Take a minute and just try to imagine a world where this was happening under Obama. Gut would be hysterical. 

Yup. But he’s not a trump supporter!

posted by SportsAndLady

Yup. But he’s not a trump supporter!

I don't think he is.

I do think, however, that he's enjoying the roller coaster ride of meltdowns and irony. To be fair I am too, to a certain extent. Sometimes it's better to laugh some things off rather than have high blood pressure haha!

posted by ptown_trojans_1

If the tape shows he knew the payment was made and it was made with campaign funds, that is something. I know you cannot indict a sitting President, and that may be the only thing that saves Trump. 

C'mon, Trump is a dipshit but you aren't losing the presidency over small campaign finance violations. 

posted by BoatShoes

The Trump water-carrying by Gut is something I didn't expect after 2016 I'll be honest but it is very entertaining. Take a minute and just try to imagine a world where this was happening under Obama. Gut would be hysterical. 

Feel free to put on your legal hat and point me to actual proof of wrongdoing by Trump.  Stating facts isn't carrying water for anyone. 

But how about those millions of dollars that went to Russian operatives from Hillary's campaign and the DNC?  Again call it whatever you like, but most of us call those facts.

posted by iclfan2

C'mon, Trump is a dipshit but you aren't losing the presidency over small campaign finance violations. 

Yeah, there's already precedent for being  fined for violations (ummm, Obama's campaign  holds the record I believe).

But they're saying this is not a reporting violation but a misuse of funds.  Like I said - and even mediocre lawyers know this - there's going to have to be more than what we heard on that tape to prove it.

posted by CenterBHSFan

I don't think he is.

I do think, however, that he's enjoying the roller coaster ride of meltdowns and irony. To be fair I am too, to a certain extent. Sometimes it's better to laugh some things off rather than have high blood pressure haha!

Just mention the name Trump and some people literally become drooling idiots.  How many times are these people going to get wound-up over forthcoming "bombshells" and "smoking guns" that never materialize?  Charlie Brown always kept trying to kick the football, but at least he became somewhat skeptical eventually.

How fucking warped is your brain? Felony convictions and a guilty plea aren't materializations? 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I mean its not like there is audio of Trump and Cohen talking about the thing he plead guilty to or anything, right? 

No matter how you spin it, the following is true: 

• The President's former campaign manager: Convicted
• The President's own personal lawyer: Plead guilty
• The President's National Security Adviser: Plead guilty 

Not a good look for the history books. 

Oh please:

Campaign manager for 49 days is convicted on a 12 year old tax case that has nothing to do with Trump.

Presidents lawyer pleads guilty to something we dont know will stick to trump.  Its not illegal to pay someone to hush up.  

National security advisor pleads guilty then the investigators tell everyone they didnt think he lied.

You have anything that actually relative?

posted by gut

We know the payment happened, but unless there is more of that tape it doesn't prove anything illegal.  Cohen, though, is crooked and seems to be STRONGLY signaling he will say whatever Mueller wants in order to avoid a lengthy jail term.  He's publicly begging for a deal - doesn't do much for what's left of his credibility.

Just please tell me we don't start with 2 year+ investigation costing over $30M on "Russian collusion" and end-up trying to impeach Trump over a $130k campaign finance "violation".  That's a lot different than $100M from Russia to your charity.

I have seen this take being thrown around and legally it sounds like Trump is in the clear, unless Mueller subpoenas him and traps him on a perjury charge. 

posted by CenterBHSFan

Yeah well, we don't need to imagine what would have happened if it was under Obama because it's largely similar to what's already happened to a sitting President. A special investigation into Clinton's affairs began with a land deal (IIRC) and ended up with stains on a blue dress - which had nothing to do with a land deal gone wrong. I suspect that something very similar of Clinton's results will conclude with Trump. Meaning that he'll be impeached on something but not Russia.

But hell, I'm very reluctant to predict *anything* after 2016. 

It has been pretty clear for over a year the path this has been and still is going is a case for impeachment.  

posted by CenterBHSFan

I don't think he is.

I do think, however, that he's enjoying the roller coaster ride of meltdowns and irony. To be fair I am too, to a certain extent. Sometimes it's better to laugh some things off rather than have high blood pressure haha!

Yeah, I don't think Gut is a Trump supporter.  In this current climate either you have to be completely unhinged regarding everything trump does and if not you're a trump supporter or the very least sympathizer. 

posted by gut

Just mention the name Trump and some people literally become drooling idiots.  How many times are these people going to get wound-up over forthcoming "bombshells" and "smoking guns" that never materialize?  Charlie Brown always kept trying to kick the football, but at least he became somewhat skeptical eventually.

You gotta take Ptown's approach of sitting back and waiting for Mueller's investigation to conlulde. 

posted by gut

Just mention the name Trump and some people literally become drooling idiots.  How many times are these people going to get wound-up over forthcoming "bombshells" and "smoking guns" that never materialize?  Charlie Brown always kept trying to kick the football, but at least he became somewhat skeptical eventually.

Yeah, we're all watching CC's "blind apologist" postings.

posted by gut

Feel free to put on your legal hat and point me to actual proof of wrongdoing by Trump.  Stating facts isn't carrying water for anyone. 

But how about those millions of dollars that went to Russian operatives from Hillary's campaign and the DNC?  Again call it whatever you like, but most of us call those facts.

My own view is that Mueller's team has a theory of crime that does not involve good victims who might typically serve as witnesses and thus they are trying to turn accomplices who can serve as witnesses to the larger crime by charging them with other crimes tangentially related to the larger criminal conspiracy. Whether they will be able to be prove the larger theory of crime remains to be seen. 

If it were Obama or Hillary or any Democrat you would be regularly reminding us of these larger potential crimes for which is are not yet or may never be any concrete proof e.g. see: this comment; when you would suggest Obama used NSA data for political purposes; weaponizing the IRS & other agencies; etc. 

When it's Trump you act completely differently. 

posted by BoatShoes

My own view is that Mueller's team has a theory of crime that does not involve good victims who might typically serve as witnesses and thus they are trying to turn accomplices who can serve as witnesses to the larger crime by charging them with other crimes tangentially related to the larger criminal conspiracy. Whether they will be able to be prove the larger theory of crime remains to be seen. 

If it were Obama or Hillary or any Democrat you would be regularly reminding us of these larger potential crimes for which is are not yet or may never be any concrete proof e.g. see: this comment; when you would suggest Obama used NSA data for political purposes; weaponizing the IRS & other agencies; etc. 

When it's Trump you act completely differently. 

People lost their minds when obama golfed a few times now it’s called doing business. 

Take a look at these comparisons between the Information and the Steele Dossier:

The relevant passages:

Indictment

In January 2017, COHEN in seeking reimbursement for election-related expenses, presented executives of the Company with a copy of a bank statement from the Essential Consultants bank account, which reflected the $130,000 payment COHEN had made to the bank account of Attorney-1 in order to keep Woman-2 silent in advance of the election, plus a $35 wire fee, adding, in handwriting, an additional “$50,000.” The $50,000 represented a claimed payment for “tech services,” which in fact related to work COHEN had solicited from a technology company during and in connection with the campaign. COHEN added these amounts to a sum of $180,035. After receiving this document, executives of the Company “grossed up” for tax purposes COHEN’s requested reimbursement of $180,000 to $360,000, and then added a bonus of $60,000 so that COHEN would be paid $420,000 in total. Executives of the Company also determined that the $420,000 would be paid to COHEN in monthly amounts of $35,000 over the course of 12 months, and that COHEN should send invoices for these payments.

Dossier

[REDACTED BY BUZZFEED NEWS] provided further details of these meeting/s and associated anti-CLINTON /Democratic Party operations. COHEN had been accompanied to Prague by 3 colleagues and the timing of the visit was either in the last week of August or the first week of September. One of their main Russian interlocutors was Oleg SOLODUKHIN operating under Rossotrudnichestvo cover. According to [REDACTED BY BUZZFEED NEWS] the agenda comprised questions on how deniable cash payments were to be made to hackers who had worked in Europe under Kremlin direction against the CLINTON campaign and various contingencies for covering up these operations and Moscow’s secret liaison with the TRUMP team more generally.

^^^boys and girls do we have ourselves the first evidence of payments to the Russian Hackers out there for all to see? Why is the campaign laundering "tech services" payments through the Trump org instead of just paying the vendors directly and reporting them to the FEC accordingly? 

I wonder if Kelly Anne starts to sweat explaining away the sudden ad buys in Wisconsin, PA and Michigan that the chattering classes were deriding in Oct. 2016? 

posted by like_that

I have seen this take being thrown around and legally it sounds like Trump is in the clear, unless Mueller subpoenas him and traps him on a perjury charge. 

I've always said if they get into Trump's finances and business dealings, he's done.  Colluding with Russia has never made sense to me, on any level.

It's also pretty inconceivable to me that they'd be dumb enough to intentionally misuse campaign finance funds for a couple of payoffs (pretty much only your "commoners" misuse campaign finance funds for personal gain).  Now Cohen is a shitty lawyer, but we're talking peanuts.  Even Trump is not dumb enough to break the law over such a paltry sum, especially when he just as easily could funnel the payment through any one of hundreds (thousands?) of LLC's he has.  And believe me, Trump is no stranger on how to structure and launder payoffs.

posted by Heretic

Yeah, we're all watching CC's "blind apologist" postings.

It does go both ways.  Most of the politards in this country have become dumber and blinder than a Cleveland Browns fans.

posted by Automatik

How fucking warped is your brain? Felony convictions and a guilty plea aren't materializations? 

My brain is fine, but you clearly suffer from TDS.  Thanks for proving the point, again.

And I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about Russia collusion?  Neither of the above has anything to do with that, or even much to do with Trump.  Cohen was his fixer, but the initial indictment was over Cohen's private business dealings.

Cohen has claimed Trump ordered him to commit a campaign finance violation, but like I said we haven't seen any evidence of that.  If Mueller wanted to make a deal with Cohen, he doesn't kick that to the state court.  That's why Cohen is publicly begging for a deal.  I have no idea how it would work for Mueller to now come in and offer a deal in a case he has no jurisdiction over.

Now it IS interesting with the latest news about NY AG's investigation into the Trump charity.  Cohen probably has dirt there, and I'm sure that charity is far from squeaky clean.  But, again, NY not federal and not Mueller.  And this just broke today, although we've heard about the charity in the past.

posted by gut

It does go both ways.  Most of the politards in this country have become dumber and blinder than a Cleveland Browns fans.

Hey now!  >.>

Why the fuck is Trump tweeting about a Tucker Carlson segment about South Africa? 

It rose to the level where the government of South Africa had to issue a statement saying, ""South Africa totally rejects this narrow perception which only seeks to divide our nation and reminds us of our colonial past."