posted by queencitybuckeye

Both parties have the same priorities:

1. Get elected

2. Get re-elected

3. Whatever

Never will understand how partisans can stand there and act like they have some sort of moral superiority.

Well stated. I don't see anyone on the left or right who GAF about the American worker. They all talk a big game, but it rings hollow. 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Well stated. I don't see anyone on the left or right who GAF about the American worker. They all talk a big game, but it rings hollow. 

Wasnt that Trumps main agenda?  America first?  His policies and actions sure sounded that alarm.

posted by Devils Advocate

And that would make you more retarded than they are ( assuming that’s possible) if you think that setting a couple of trash cans on fire or breaking some windows is comparable to an insurgent overtaking of the the capitol .

I would think an insurgent overtaking would be something like a fully-armed organized group of military-type assault teams storming a building with weapons ablazing and mortar cover fire.  Obviously what occurred yesterday should never have happened and any vandals and trespassers should be fully prosecuted, but an unarmed guy in blue jeans and a flannel shirt plopping down at Pelosi's desk and taking a selfie is probably not an insurgency. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

BTW, Strong words from George Will today 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-hawley-and-cruz-will-each-wear-the-scarlet-s-of-a-seditionist/2021/01/06/65b0ad1a-506c-11eb-bda4-615aaefd0555_story.html

He's little more than an establishment opportunist; no one cares.

posted by Spock

Wasnt that Trumps main agenda?  America first?  His policies and actions sure sounded that alarm.

No, they did not. Manufacturing and middle class jobs bring outsourced has been going on for decades and everyone has been well aware of it. Trump made a lot of noise about it, but nothing's changed. Larger trade imbalance with China today than we had in 2016. He is not responsible for all that happened there, but his talk to change it was that - all talk. 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

No, they did not. Manufacturing and middle class jobs bring outsourced has been going on for decades and everyone has been well aware of it. Trump made a lot of noise about it, but nothing's changed. Larger trade imbalance with China today than we had in 2016. He is not responsible for all that happened there, but his talk to change it was that - all talk. 

You are insane.  The middle class working environment right before China screwed up the world with Covid were off the charts.

Records set in almost every catagory

posted by jmog

See, now you are putting words in my mouth that I didn't say. I am not lumping everyone that believes that black lives do matter with violent protests. I have said myself in the past that I agree with the concept, but vehemently disagree with the organization.

And see, I was doing the same. We were just talking past each other. I think we are on the same page now. 

posted by queencitybuckeye

Don't understand that response to me. Perhaps a re-read is in order?

Don't fall for the bullshit theory that antifa was there yesterday...don't be that gullible. 

Edit: All good, had to reread it a few times. 

What are the thoughts of the 25th Amendment used on Trump here?

I think it is too far given it is just 13 days left and a stretch. 

But, it does seem we are approaching the end of the Nixon Administration in 1973 level here. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Don't fall for the bullshit theory that antifa was there yesterday...don't be that guillble. 

Think you misread what he said, although I had to read it a couple times myself. He said that, in trying to support their crackpot idea that "They wasn't us; they was teh Antifas!!!!", people are taking the pics of yesterday's yahoos and finding similar looking people from the summer protests to try to say they are the same people, even if actual facial recognition software says differently.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

What are the thoughts of the 25th Amendment used on Trump here?

I think it is too far given it is just 13 days left and a stretch. 

But, it does seem we are approaching the end of the Nixon Administration in 1973 level here. 

there is no reason for it but for the fact that some think that the use of this would eliminate his chances of a run in 24.

After this shit show, he aint running.

posted by Spock

Damn why does the stock market like Biden so much?  Its going bananas today?

For starters, Trump basically conceded today.

Second, Biden has already promised MOAR STIMULUS!!!!  Markets like stimulus.  We'll wait to see what effects tax increases have, but that's at least a year, probably two away.  If at all, because to end the Trump tax cuts prematurely Dems would have to eliminate the filibuster, and there is at least one vote (Manchin) against that.

posted by gut

For starters, Trump basically conceded today.

Second, Biden has already promised MOAR STIMULUS!!!!  Markets like stimulus.  We'll wait to see what effects tax increases have, but that's at least a year, probably two away.  If at all, because to end the Trump tax cuts prematurely Dems would have to eliminate the filibuster, and there is at least one vote (Manchin) against that.

I also think we may finally get that long promised Infrastructure Bill. That is more likely sooner rather than later. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I also think we may finally get that long promised Infrastructure Bill. That is more likely sooner rather than later. 

That is at least needed spending.  It needs to be at least partially funded (we can give up on either party fully funding anything, at this point) by taxes...and that should come mostly from gas taxes.  The problem is those gas taxes have never been reserved/earmarked for roads & bridges, and that's a big part of the problem.

But I don't know why we didn't get an infrastructure bill before.  I assume because of divided branches, if not the filibuster.  Can you get 10 Repubs to break a filibuster?  Only if you do it right away while the economy is still struggling. 

If we get back to normal by the end of the year I wouldn't bet on an infrastructure bill.  It's going to be like immigration reform - it doesn't get done because neither party will give the other that victory.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

What are the thoughts of the 25th Amendment used on Trump here?

I think it is too far given it is just 13 days left and a stretch. 

But, it does seem we are approaching the end of the Nixon Administration in 1973 level here. 

With the short amount of time between now and Biden taking over, it'd probably be a waste of time and more pointless bickering. Hell, him being neutered on social media now was more than I'd have expected, at least before the 20th. And probably will do a lot more to help things than any amount of "try to kick him out early" stuff. Just make sure he sticks to his "okay, I will concede" thoughts and keep him away from anything remotely resembling public speaking for a couple weeks and that'll be enough.

posted by gut

For starters, Trump basically conceded today.

Second, Biden has already promised MOAR STIMULUS!!!!  Markets like stimulus.  We'll wait to see what effects tax increases have, but that's at least a year, probably two away.  If at all, because to end the Trump tax cuts prematurely Dems would have to eliminate the filibuster, and there is at least one vote (Manchin) against that.

Stimulus got to be paid back.  Both parties are at fault for the soon to be $30 trillion debt.  

Hell to pay is likely coming while Biden is in office.  My stock market friends and relatives are all starting to mumble about how your current investments, retirement and equity is going to lose about 20% of its value as we start to pay for that.

As for those "shovel ready jobs".......lol, heard that one before

posted by gut

That is at least needed spending.  It needs to be at least partially funded (we can give up on either party fully funding anything, at this point) by taxes...and that should come mostly from gas taxes.  The problem is those gas taxes have never been reserved/earmarked for roads & bridges, and that's a big part of the problem.

But I don't know why we didn't get an infrastructure bill before.  I assume because of divided branches, if not the filibuster.  Can you get 10 Repubs to break a filibuster?  Only if you do it right away while the economy is still struggling. 

If we get back to normal by the end of the year I wouldn't bet on an infrastructure bill.  It's going to be like immigration reform - it doesn't get done because neither party will give the other that victory.

The raising of the gas tax I think is on the table now as it has not been raised since the early 1990s.

The reason for the lack of a bill was Trump's plan made zero sense. He said it was a trillion dollars, but it was really like $250B if that and the rest would come from the private sector in the form of loans and bonds. That made zero sense as the private sector does not have the ability to raise that much capital and risk on large scale infrastructure projects. Only the largest firms would be able to afford that, so it died. 

Immigration reform is a good bet and hopefully we can get some form of common sense pathway to citizenship bill. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

The raising of the gas tax I think is on the table now as it has not been raised since the early 1990s.

The reason for the lack of a bill was Trump's plan made zero sense. He said it was a trillion dollars, but it was really like $250B if that and the rest would come from the private sector in the form of loans and bonds. That made zero sense as the private sector does not have the ability to raise that much capital and risk on large scale infrastructure projects. Only the largest firms would be able to afford that, so it died. 

Immigration reform is a good bet and hopefully we can get some form of common sense pathway to citizenship bill. 

BS on immigration.  Dems dont want a deal.  Trump handed them amnesty for 11 million and DACA to stay as law.  THey didnt take it.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

No, they did not. Manufacturing and middle class jobs bring outsourced has been going on for decades and everyone has been well aware of it. Trump made a lot of noise about it, but nothing's changed. Larger trade imbalance with China today than we had in 2016. He is not responsible for all that happened there, but his talk to change it was that - all talk. 

Incorrect; we were plus almost 700,000 manufacturing jobs under Trump .........the good jobs obama said were not coming back.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Immigration reform is a good bet and hopefully we can get some form of common sense pathway to citizenship bill. 

A trip down memory lane:

posted by Spock

Stimulus got to be paid back.  Both parties are at fault for the soon to be $30 trillion debt.  

Hell to pay is likely coming while Biden is in office.  My stock market friends and relatives are all starting to mumble about how your current investments, retirement and equity is going to lose about 20% of its value as we start to pay for that.

As for those "shovel ready jobs".......lol, heard that one before

 the bottom 90 percent of the people who own stocks own probably 7 percent of the stock market.  the top 1 percent own over 50-60 percent of the stock market. ( rough estimate i havent looked at this in years) so lets stop acting like the stock market is the economy.  you arent getting rich or poor off of the stock market as a teacher im sure.  I predict the stock market will be better with more stability at the top. 

posted by geeblock

 the bottom 90 percent of the people who own stocks own probably 7 percent of the stock market.  the top 1 percent own over 50-60 percent of the stock market. ( rough estimate i havent looked at this in years) so lets stop acting like the stock market is the economy.  you arent getting rich or poor off of the stock market as a teacher im sure.  I predict the stock market will be better with more stability at the top. 

You do realize that most people’s retirements are in the stock market right? 

I mean I haven’t touched my 401k in years and 20 years from now it will have a couple million in it and I am not part of the top 10%.

If the market takes a big hit it would be a huge drop in my retirement savings.

I promise you, almost everyone who has their retirement plans in 401ks, IRAs, etc really do care about the stock market and care about it a lot. Some look at it daily, some weekly, and almost everyone I know that has these types of retirement plans talks about the market all the time.

To say it doesn’t matter to the bottom 90% is quite frankly either ignorant (as in uninformed) or asinine.

Do you not know many people at work or friends who are using these retirement methods? Most people I know that do absolutely pay attention and rely on the market.

Only those that are solely relying on social security really do not.

posted by jmog

You do realize that most people’s retirements are in the stock market right? 

I mean I haven’t touched my 401k in years and 20 years from now it will have a couple million in it and I am not part of the top 10%.

If the market takes a big hit it would be a huge drop in my retirement savings.

I promise you, almost everyone who has their retirement plans in 401ks, IRAs, etc really do care about the stock market and care about it a lot. Some look at it daily, some weekly, and almost everyone I know that has these types of retirement plans talks about the market all the time.

To say it doesn’t matter to the bottom 90% is quite frankly either ignorant (as in uninformed) or asinine.

Do you not know many people at work or friends who are using these retirement methods? Most people I know that do absolutely pay attention and rely on the market.

Only those that are solely relying on social security really do not.

Truth right here.  Your retirement, your job (employers got money in there also) are tied to this.  I have made good money in the stock market in the past 4 years under Trump.  I have investments that have doubled in 3 years (arent supposed to double that fast, more like 7 years).  

If things kept going, I could look at early retirement.  Not now

People like Friend will soon start to change their tune when they see DC getting too deep into their pocket books.

posted by jmog

You do realize that most people’s retirements are in the stock market right? 

I mean I haven’t touched my 401k in years and 20 years from now it will have a couple million in it and I am not part of the top 10%.

If the market takes a big hit it would be a huge drop in my retirement savings.

I promise you, almost everyone who has their retirement plans in 401ks, IRAs, etc really do care about the stock market and care about it a lot. Some look at it daily, some weekly, and almost everyone I know that has these types of retirement plans talks about the market all the time.

To say it doesn’t matter to the bottom 90% is quite frankly either ignorant (as in uninformed) or asinine.

Do you not know many people at work or friends who are using these retirement methods? Most people I know that do absolutely pay attention and rely on the market.

Only those that are solely relying on social security really do not.

Retirement plans go up and down over 30-40 years. If you put a ruler over the graph of the market from Obama to trump it was climbing identically before covid. My sense is it will do even better under Biden as he will provide more stability. If I’m wrong chances are we will see the gop win in 24 and it will bounce back in four years. I see no reason to panic. 

Let’s be honest with the way the current state of our politics are, very little legislation actually gets passed. Obama got blocked and outside of the first year I’m not sure trump passed anything the last three that made any difference. I don’t see Biden doing much either