New Competitive Balance Proposal

• Bigdogg

  Possible Solutions to Competitive Balance Issues in Ohio
  
  The present way to classify high schools in Ohio is by the number of students walking the halls of your school 9-11 every other fall. It is an old and antiquated way to determine divisions for competitive interscholastic sports. The theory behind it was the larger the pool of students you have, the more potential athletes you have.
  
  This system has been in place since the beginning. This was before the concept of mainstreaming, inclusion, open enrollments, vouchers, and “academies” or tech schools. Students who were formally provided educations in “special” schools are now all part of the public school system. These students no longer attend separate schools and are now counted into the general pool of potential athletes at their “home” school. Although some of these students do participate in interscholastic programs, most do not. This is a big change from twenty years ago.
  
  Public Law 94-142 (Education of All Handicapped Children Act) also known as, Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) requires all public schools to provide a free and appropriate education. The fact is not all schools in Ohio are under this requirement. Only public schools are required to accept every student that applies. This alone is reason enough to justify some tweaking of the current classification system that the OHSAA uses to determine divisions.
  
  There have been proposals to separate public from private, and the most recent competitive balance proposal that was recently defeated by a narrow vote. Separating public from private schools is not a viable answer. There has been some movement to “level the field” by open enrolment programs. However there still is work to be done and none of the proposals addressed any of the “big school” problems”
  
  A system must be developed that will take in consideration the changes that have happened over the past several years to the school systems in Ohio. I would suggest the following may be a good starting point to try to address some of the issues that are currently perceived by most as a problem in Ohio.
  
  A weighted system that is easy to understand and verify would be the best way to establish size classifications for interscholastic competition. Schools could be placed in four categories: urban open and urban selective, rural open and rural selective. Each would be assigned a weighted factor. The most weight should be placed on urban schools with selective admission standards. The least weighted should be schools in rural areas with open admission standards.
  
  The number of students on an IEP at each school should be a factor, and can be incorporated into the system. The fewer percentage of IEP students, the more weighted is added.
  
  All schools should be placed in the following categories.
  
  Urban with selective admission- School is located in an urban area and is selective by admission standards or space issues.
  
  Rural with selective admission- School is located in a rural area and is selective by admission standards or space issues.
  
  Urban open admission- School accepts all students with no restrictions.
  Rural open admission. - School accepts all students with no restrictions.
  
  Urban and Rural Classification
  The Census Bureau classifies as "urban" all territory, population, and housing units located within an urbanized area (UA) or an urban cluster (UC). It delineates UA and UC boundaries to encompass densely settled territory, which consists of:
  

  • core census block groups or blocks that have a population density of at least 1,000 people per square mile and
  • surrounding census blocks that have an overall density of at least 500 people per square mile

  In addition, under certain conditions, less densely settled territory may be part of each UA or UC.
  The Census Bureau's classification of "rural" consists of all territory, population, and housing units located outside of UAs and UCs. The rural component contains both place and nonplace territory. Geographic entities, such as census tracts, counties, metropolitan areas, and the territory outside metropolitan areas, often are "split" between urban and rural territory, and the population and housing units they contain often are partly classified as urban and partly classified as rural.
  
  

  • There should be an “open” division consisting of the statically largest high schools and include any school that chooses to compete in this division. This division will be a smaller number of schools than presently exist.

  
  

  • There should be a division for only the statically smallest schools. Any school that has a selective admission policy either public or private should not be eligible for this division. This division will be a smaller number of schools than presently exist. Any school could apply for a two year waiver.

  
  

  • The rest of the schools should be evenly divided into four equal divisions, thus keeping the current six division structure. Schools would be assigned based on size after calculating weighted factors.

  
  All information needed is already available. The OHSAA would be responsible to determine how much weight to apply to the different factors. There would not be any weighed factors on past tournament success. All schools would keep their classification for two years, same as they currently do. It would not be perfect but it is a step in the right direction.
  
  
  Fire away!
• Rocket08

  Who's proposal is this?
• landshark0731

  Schools unlikely to vote on another competitive balance proposal this spring, Ohio High School Athletic Association says
  Plain Dealer staff, October 20, 2011 5:54 p.m.
  
  View full size
  The Ohio High School Athletic Association announced Thursday it's unlikely competitive imbalance between private and public schools will be addressed in the annual May referendum vote.
  COLUMBUS, Ohio - Don't expect another vote this spring addressing the competitive imbalance between private and public schools in Ohio.
  
  The Ohio High School Athletic Association on Thursday announced it's unlikely the subject will be included in the set of referendum items all schools vote on each May. The Board of Directors accepted a recommendation from the competitive balance subcommittee that no changes be made to the current system used to assign schools to divisions for postseason tournaments.
  
  They made the decision based on data received from a survey with principals this fall.
  
  Last May, principals narrowly defeated a referendum proposal that would have created a new system for determining divisions. The formula took into account enrollment, boundary, socioeconomics with free lunches and tradition. It failed by a vote of 332-303.
• rmolin73

  

  His. I feel it is even more complicated then the previous competitive balance proposal. Who is going to be responsible for compiling all of the data? OHSAA is not as big as many may think. If there is such an inbalance then why are there only 2 private schools playing?
• coyotes22

  

  This thread should get interesting by late tonight.
  
  I say we just do away with divisions and computer points, and just make the playoffs the top 12 schools with the best records. Then we will see who the best team in Ohio is. :thumbup:
• said_aouita

  

  Urban and Rural classification is interesting. Like to see how schools near towns but surrounded by corn would be classified. Thinking Springfield Shawnee vs. Springfield Kenton Ridge, specifically.
  KR is more in town but still has students rural.
• landshark0731

  There will not be a vote for the 2012 season. You can view the whole article on http://highschoolsports.cleveland.com/news/article/-4496838890448290795/schools-unlikely-to-vote-on-another-competitive-balance-proposal-this-spring-ohio-high-school-athletic-association-says/
• skank

  

  rmolin73;996792 wrote:His. I feel it is even more complicated then the previous competitive balance proposal. Who is going to be responsible for compiling all of the data? OHSAA is not as big as many may think. If there is such an inbalance then why are there only 2 private schools playing?

  
  
  If there isn't, why have privates won 13 0f las 18?
• 1_beast

  

  I like to add onions and nacho cheese to my coney! Thats the BEST!
  
  
• Rocket08

  skank;996813 wrote:If there isn't, why have privates won 13 0f las 18?

  Just to ruin the lives of people like you
• skank

  

  Rocket08;997046 wrote:Just to ruin the lives of people like you

  
  
  No, in all honesty, lets be serious here for a minute. Molin is trying to say that you only have 2 teams playing for a title this year, so there is no imbalance. I simply pointed out that over the last 18 title games, 13 have been won by parochials. That goes the other way.
• genghis dong

  skank;996813 wrote:If there isn't, why have privates won 13 0f las 18?

  You didn't spell last right. I can't even read your posts with all the spelling errors.
• rmolin73

  

  This is the 4rd time I'm going to say this keep it the same.
• Falcons53

  I say do like Wisconsin and Indiana, drop 1 regular season game, so down to 9 weeks and let everyone in the play-offs.
  
  Or, do like PA used to have. The conference you play-in is your region and all the schools in it are set by the state , size; pub/par; etc., are taken into account. Top 2 from each conference make it and they cross play 1 vs 2 with the next geographic region. Your entire schedule is your region and the teams that are the two best move on.
  
  Even better, Here are the new classes based on enrollment of boys 9-12.
  
  1-50
  51-100
  101-200
  201-300
  301-400
  401-500
  501-600
  601-700
  701-800
  801-900
  901-1000
  
  However many teams are that size fight it out, everyone gets in. If you are Catholic, you count as 2 kids. If you are poor you count as 1/2 a kid. If you are hear legally from another country you count 1 1/2. If you are here illegally, you count as o cause you don't actually exist. If you are from another state, but moved back here because your parents divorced and one of your parents is from Ohio originally, you count as a 1, unless your choose to attend a private school, then you count as 2. If your parents had their kids close together and two of you attend the same private school, you count as 1 1/2 each for a total of 3. If you vote on the school levy for the public school, but send your kids to the private school, your kids count 1.25 each, unless they run a sub 4.5 in the 40 (hand timed), then they are 2.25. If your parents receive a government farm subsidy, then you only count at .75.
  
  Did I miss any?
  
  Ohio system>any other system (still room to improve though)
• BTrev

  Falcons53;997706 wrote:I say do like Wisconsin and Indiana, drop 1 regular season game, so down to 9 weeks and let everyone in the play-offs.
  
  Or, do like PA used to have. The conference you play-in is your region and all the schools in it are set by the state , size; pub/par; etc., are taken into account. Top 2 from each conference make it and they cross play 1 vs 2 with the next geographic region. Your entire schedule is your region and the teams that are the two best move on.
  
  Even better, Here are the new classes based on enrollment of boys 9-12.
  
  1-50
  51-100
  101-200
  201-300
  301-400
  401-500
  501-600
  601-700
  701-800
  801-900
  901-1000
  
  However many teams are that size fight it out, everyone gets in. If you are Catholic, you count as 2 kids. If you are poor you count as 1/2 a kid. If you are hear legally from another country you count 1 1/2. If you are here illegally, you count as o cause you don't actually exist. If you are from another state, but moved back here because your parents divorced and one of your parents is from Ohio originally, you count as a 1, unless your choose to attend a private school, then you count as 2. If your parents had their kids close together and two of you attend the same private school, you count as 1 1/2 each for a total of 3. If you vote on the school levy for the public school, but send your kids to the private school, your kids count 1.25 each, unless they run a sub 4.5 in the 40 (hand timed), then they are 2.25. If your parents receive a government farm subsidy, then you only count at .75.
  
  Did I miss any?
  
  Ohio system>any other system (still room to improve though)

  Love it!
• Sonofanump

  However you do a multiplier (I suggest 5/3 for private ala Mizz Comprise). I think that 7 division would work well like this:
  
  Super-1: Top 80 schools, In Columbus since it should be either Cbus/Cincy vs Cleveland/Akron/ Toledo.
  D2-D6: 110-115 each: Rotate locations.
  Small: Bottom 80 schools, no privates. Play on Thursday night for finals.
  
  Keep 32 schools per each division.
• 1_beast

  

  what about 1000+???
• Al Bundy

  Let's just go to 700 divisions. Instead of wasting today and tomorrow watching great high school football games, today could be used for each school to have a rally to celebrate their state championship, and every community could have a parade tomorrow to celebrate their state championship team.
• 1_beast

  

  Al Bundy;998068 wrote:Let's just go to 700 divisions. Instead of wasting today and tomorrow watching great high school football games, today could be used for each school to have a rally to celebrate their state championship, and every community could have a parade tomorrow to celebrate their state championship team.

  cool story bro.:thumbup:
• coyotes22

  

  Al Bundy;998068 wrote:Let's just go to 700 divisions. Instead of wasting today and tomorrow watching great high school football games, today could be used for each school to have a rally to celebrate their state championship, and every community could have a parade tomorrow to celebrate their state championship team.

  But then the Privates would win a Championship EVERY YEAR!!!!!!
  
  
  
  
• 1_beast

  

  coyotes22;998299 wrote:But then the Privates would win a Championship EVERY YEAR!!!!!!
  
  
  
  

  REPS
• Al Bundy

  coyotes22;998299 wrote:But then the Privates would win a Championship EVERY YEAR!!!!!!
  
  
  
  

  We need something to keep skank and thinkthick occupied.
• coyotes22

  

  Al Bundy;998316 wrote:We need something to keep skank and thinkthick occupied.

  If you say so!
• skank

  

  Al Bundy;998068 wrote:Let's just go to 700 divisions. Instead of wasting today and tomorrow watching great high school football games, today could be used for each school to have a rally to celebrate their state championship, and every community could have a parade tomorrow to celebrate their state championship team.

  
  
  Said the guy who's team benefits from IR. Plus, this is only ther 1,000,000,000,000,000,th time you've said it, so, thanks for adding to the thread.
• skank

  

  coyotes22;998450 wrote:If you say so!

  Dude, I appreciate the kind words from the other thread, but every time you add a smiley face, you may as well just kiss their butts.