New Competitive Balance Proposal
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fish82
While it's fun to watch you continue to twist yourself into a pretzel over a 30 year old story, the house was empty at the time. The family's move to Cincinnati was a done deal, they just needed a place to live. The move was investigated by the OHSAA, and they found no wrongdoing whatosever.skank;1007632 wrote:I wonder what became of the family that Gerry 'the evictor' Faust booted out on their cans?
But like I said, it's still fun to watch a fan of the program that invented all these "nefarious tactics" in the 50's & 60's complaining about them today. -
Rocket08
Thisfish82;1008851 wrote:While it's fun to watch you continue to twist yourself into a pretzel over a 30 year old story, -
Al Bundy
For a school like St. Christine, under your proposal, I think you would have to go back over time period and establish a percentage for Ursuline and Mooney. If you are over your percentage from that school, the multiplier would take effect by the number of students that you are over by.sherm03;1008744 wrote:The point of my idea is if there is an open enrollment school that has a lot of kids that come in from out of the area, it should affect their total. If there is a small private school in a rural area, they are probably only getting kids from the private feeder grade school. It would actually benefit those schools because they would not be penalized just because they fall into either the open enrollment or private classification. My whole gripe is that I don't think schools should be penalized JUST because they are private, or JUST because they are open enrollment. What matters to me is where your students are coming from. If you are only getting kids from your feeder school(s), you should not be forced to move up at all. But if you are an open enrollment school and you have a lot of kids coming from outside your school district, that should not count any less than a private school.
I do think though there would be some issues with feeder schools that are "on the border." For example, in Youngstown, St. Christine 8th graders usually split up between Mooney, Ursuline, and Canfield. It would be tough to designate that school as a specific high schools feeder school. -
Falcons53
Are you kidding me? Who has time to go back and look at percentages and blah, blah, blah. I am a fan of the public schools and root for them in state finals games almost every time there is a Pub/Private match up, but that is rediculous. You are talking about 1 school. How many of those exist in Ohio? I would bet everyone on here that is associated with a private school can name one or two.Al Bundy;1008909 wrote:For a school like St. Christine, under your proposal, I think you would have to go back over time period and establish a percentage for Ursuline and Mooney. If you are over your percentage from that school, the multiplier would take effect by the number of students that you are over by.
I understand the frustrations that people have in regards to their perceived "equality", but if everyone debated this much about how to fix the educational system instead of the multipliers for football divisions, we would not be ranked #28 in the world in math and #27 in science. Hey, that places us in the "others receiving votes" section. -
skank
fish82;1008851 wrote:While it's fun to watch you continue to twist yourself into a pretzel over a 30 year old story, the house was empty at the time. The family's move to Cincinnati was a done deal, they just needed a place to live. The move was investigated by the OHSAA, and they found no wrongdoing whatosever.
But like I said, it's still fun to watch a fan of the program that invented all these "nefarious tactics" in the 50's & 60's complaining about them today.
So then, coach Faust didn't know these people from Adam, rented them a home, and it just turned out they happened to have not one, but TWO All-American football players for sons? You're wanting us to buy this?
A football coach, at a school, that has kids on the team, from AT LEAST 3 different states, has a house that is sitting vacant, and rents said house to two of the best running backs....IN THE NATION? And the OHSAA found no wrong doing whatsoever? Big surprise. -
fish82
It really doesn't matter to me what you believe. I'm just setting you straight on the facts as to your crack about someone getting evicted. And I never said he "didn't know them from Adam," did I? They were moving to town, and wanted to go to Moeller.skank;1009013 wrote:So then, coach Faust didn't know these people from Adam, rented them a home, and it just turned out they happened to have not one, but TWO All-American football players for sons? You're wanting us to buy this?
A football coach, at a school, that has kids on the team, from AT LEAST 3 different states, has a house that is sitting vacant, and rents said house to two of the best running backs....IN THE NATION? And the OHSAA found no wrong doing whatsoever? Big surprise.
And since the OHSAA obviously had no problem with you people in the 50s/60s doing the same thing, I don't see why they'd raise a ruckus over this case, do you? -
Bigdogg
That might have happened the way you say it did, but I had a buddy in college that played at Moeller in the late 70s and the things that went on there he told me about were pretty interesting. Moller got the best players in 3 states and played for a very good high school coach. It was more like the University of Moeller.fish82;1009202 wrote:It really doesn't matter to me what you believe. I'm just setting you straight on the facts as to your crack about someone getting evicted. And I never said he "didn't know them from Adam," did I? They were moving to town, and wanted to go to Moeller.
And since the OHSAA obviously had no problem with you people in the 50s/60s doing the same thing, I don't see why they'd raise a ruckus over this case, do you? -
fish82
The "3 states" thing was one season..one other season it was 2 states. It was 4 guys from NKY and one from Indiana...hardly the "best players from 3 states." Now I'll certianly stipulate that they got the cream of the crop in Cincinnati during that time. So to make a short answer long... Yeah, it happened. But the skankster tries to spin it like it was commonplace during Faust's entire tenure, which it wasn't. For instance, every single player on the 75/76 teams came from within the school's parrish boundaries.Bigdogg;1009209 wrote:That might have happened the way you say it did, but I had a buddy in college that played at Moeller in the late 70s and the things that went on there he told me about were pretty interesting. Moller got the best players in 3 states and played for a very good high school coach. It was more like the University of Moeller. -
sherm03
I don't think that would work. Let's face it, the OHSAA isn't going to do anything that is going to cause them to have to work too much. It would be a feat just to get them to agree to establish feeder schools.Al Bundy;1008909 wrote:For a school like St. Christine, under your proposal, I think you would have to go back over time period and establish a percentage for Ursuline and Mooney. If you are over your percentage from that school, the multiplier would take effect by the number of students that you are over by.
I'm not sure the best way to figure that situation out, because as Falcons pointed out, that's just one school. There's probably a ton of those across the state. However, if that little glitch got sorted out, I don't see any other problems with that type of proposal. Especially if the idea is to be "fair." -
skank
fish82;1009202 wrote:It really doesn't matter to me what you believe. I'm just setting you straight on the facts as to your crack about someone getting evicted. And I never said he "didn't know them from Adam," did I? They were moving to town, and wanted to go to Moeller.
And since the OHSAA obviously had no problem with you people in the 50s/60s doing the same thing, I don't see why they'd raise a ruckus over this case, do you?
"They were moving to town, and wanted to go to Moeller." And Gerry Faust just happened to have a house for them to rent? I'll tell you what, that ole Gerry Faust, one heck of a guy. -
skank
fish82;1009220 wrote:The "3 states" thing was one season..one other season it was 2 states. It was 4 guys from NKY and one from Indiana...hardly the "best players from 3 states." Now I'll certianly stipulate that they got the cream of the crop in Cincinnati during that time. So to make a short answer long... Yeah, it happened. But the skankster tries to spin it like it was commonplace during Faust's entire tenure, which it wasn't. For instance, every single player on the 75/76 teams came from within the school's parrish boundaries.
Wow, who's turning theirself into a pretzel now? The highlighted portion is all I needed to read. Thank you. -
coyotes22
Ok, as all know, I dont care about the pub/priv thing, and have never once complained about things being unfair. I have an idea, that sounds good in my head, and hope it sounds just as good on paper. I know I know, "But your from Massillon, so it dont matter". Just hear me out.
I think every football team in the state, bust their butts in the offseaon and thru the summer. I think every team works hard to be the best they can be. Yes, at times it comes down to coaches and how the team may handle pressure in certain games, that determines a win and a loss. Do some teams work harder than others? Probably, but we can all agree, each team works hard. So, I say that, to say this:
Division 1 is the biggest problem division in Ohio, as it ranges from 500(something) to over 1000. No other division has that big of a gap. How do we fix it? I do not like a 7 divisions idea, but, maybe a Division 1 split. Im not one for "Everyone is a winner" idea. It does not teach anything, because in life, we are not all winners. It happens. But, what if we split Division 1 up between Big schools and Small schools. Something like this:
Regions 1 and 2 are the Big schools, R1 north R2 south, 750 boys and up.
Regions 3 and 4 are the Small schools, R3 north R4 south, 750 boys and down.
Post season take just the top 4 teams from each region (In DI only), and have a Big/Small school championship. It would only be three weeks of playoff's, and you could play Small DI on Friday night, Big DI on Saturday night. R1 and R2 play for the Big, R3 and R4 play for the Small.
You are not "giving everyone" a championship, but you are narrowing the gap.
Stupid Idea? -
Al Bundy
Sherm, under your multiplier system wouldn't they have to track kids from 8th to 9th grade anyway? The diocese would have all of the numbers anyway. Would it be that hard for the to say (I have no idea the exact numbers, so I am throwing these out there as an example) that 60% of St. Christine's kids go to Ursuline and 40% go to Mooney. So, if St. Christine's graduates 40, Ursuline would have a multiplier if they go over 24, Mooney would have multiplier if they go over 16.sherm03;1009227 wrote:I don't think that would work. Let's face it, the OHSAA isn't going to do anything that is going to cause them to have to work too much. It would be a feat just to get them to agree to establish feeder schools.
I'm not sure the best way to figure that situation out, because as Falcons pointed out, that's just one school. There's probably a ton of those across the state. However, if that little glitch got sorted out, I don't see any other problems with that type of proposal. Especially if the idea is to be "fair." -
Al Bundy
The biggest and smallest division will always have the biggest difference in numbers. You could make an argument whether 500 vs. 1000 or 50 vs. 100 is a bigger disadvantage.coyotes22;1009315 wrote:Ok, as all know, I dont care about the pub/priv thing, and have never once complained about things being unfair. I have an idea, that sounds good in my head, and hope it sounds just as good on paper. I know I know, "But your from Massillon, so it dont matter". Just hear me out.
I think every football team in the state, bust their butts in the offseaon and thru the summer. I think every team works hard to be the best they can be. Yes, at times it comes down to coaches and how the team may handle pressure in certain games, that determines a win and a loss. Do some teams work harder than others? Probably, but we can all agree, each team works hard. So, I say that, to say this:
Division 1 is the biggest problem division in Ohio, as it ranges from 500(something) to over 1000. No other division has that big of a gap. How do we fix it? I do not like a 7 divisions idea, but, maybe a Division 1 split. Im not one for "Everyone is a winner" idea. It does not teach anything, because in life, we are not all winners. It happens. But, what if we split Division 1 up between Big schools and Small schools. Something like this:
Regions 1 and 2 are the Big schools, R1 north R2 south, 750 boys and up.
Regions 3 and 4 are the Small schools, R3 north R4 south, 750 boys and down.
Post season take just the top 4 teams from each region (In DI only), and have a Big/Small school championship. It would only be three weeks of playoff's, and you could play Small DI on Friday night, Big DI on Saturday night. R1 and R2 play for the Big, R3 and R4 play for the Small.
You are not "giving everyone" a championship, but you are narrowing the gap.
Stupid Idea?
I do not want more divisions (I think we have too many already), but maybe we don't need to put 1/6 of the school in each division. You could reduce the numbers in D1 and D6, but you will still have complaints no matter what you do. -
coyotes22
Its not technically adding a division, just adding a championship game, for division 1.Al Bundy;1009355 wrote:The biggest and smallest division will always have the biggest difference in numbers. You could make an argument whether 500 vs. 1000 or 50 vs. 100 is a bigger disadvantage.
I do not want more divisions (I think we have too many already), but maybe we don't need to put 1/6 of the school in each division. You could reduce the numbers in D1 and D6, but you will still have complaints no matter what you do.
But, I do agree, not matter what gets done, if anything,,,, not everyone will be happy.
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coyotes22
So, youre saying its a stupid idea?!?!?! Whatever dude!!!! :thumbdown:Al Bundy;1009355 wrote:The biggest and smallest division will always have the biggest difference in numbers. You could make an argument whether 500 vs. 1000 or 50 vs. 100 is a bigger disadvantage.
I do not want more divisions (I think we have too many already), but maybe we don't need to put 1/6 of the school in each division. You could reduce the numbers in D1 and D6, but you will still have complaints no matter what you do. -
Al Bundy
I don't think that it is stupid. It is better than many of the other proposals. I know it's not adding a division, and I like that part of it.coyotes22;1009366 wrote:So, youre saying its a stupid idea?!?!?! Whatever dude!!!! :thumbdown: -
coyotes22
LOL, Im just messing with ya! :thumbup:Al Bundy;1009387 wrote:I don't think that it is stupid. It is better than many of the other proposals. I know it's not adding a division, and I like that part of it. -
Al Bundy
Good luck ever getting something like to pass...lol. Unfortunately, I think it would be more likely to have D1 split into a 7th division before we see your proposal.coyotes22;1009388 wrote:LOL, Im just messing with ya! :thumbup: -
coyotes22
I know, but we can all dream! LOLAl Bundy;1009392 wrote:Good luck ever getting something like to pass...lol. Unfortunately, I think it would be more likely to have D1 split into a 7th division before we see your proposal. -
Thinthickbigred
Maybe add a single division and go to six. Id also like them to go to fewer playoff games then we wouldnt have the watered down effect . Also we should put a multiplyer in for the highly successful programs that dominate in lower divisions . So Let me run this down . first we make it a Six division state , then we lower the playoff games to 4, and then we do a multiplyer system that somebody from MIT would probably have to doctor up . the lower divisions also have a huge problem with teams like Newark catholic in the past to Delphose St John of today to Youngstown Ursulin in D-5 and Mooney which is in D-3 and was ranked #9 in the USA a few years ago and that was when they were in D-4 . We have some work to do . the status quo is not a good system . unless ofcourse you are that 5% of schools that are benefitting from the system we havecoyotes22;1009315 wrote:Ok, as all know, I dont care about the pub/priv thing, and have never once complained about things being unfair. I have an idea, that sounds good in my head, and hope it sounds just as good on paper. I know I know, "But your from Massillon, so it dont matter". Just hear me out.
I think every football team in the state, bust their butts in the offseaon and thru the summer. I think every team works hard to be the best they can be. Yes, at times it comes down to coaches and how the team may handle pressure in certain games, that determines a win and a loss. Do some teams work harder than others? Probably, but we can all agree, each team works hard. So, I say that, to say this:
Division 1 is the biggest problem division in Ohio, as it ranges from 500(something) to over 1000. No other division has that big of a gap. How do we fix it? I do not like a 7 divisions idea, but, maybe a Division 1 split. Im not one for "Everyone is a winner" idea. It does not teach anything, because in life, we are not all winners. It happens. But, what if we split Division 1 up between Big schools and Small schools. Something like this:
Regions 1 and 2 are the Big schools, R1 north R2 south, 750 boys and up.
Regions 3 and 4 are the Small schools, R3 north R4 south, 750 boys and down.
Post season take just the top 4 teams from each region (In DI only), and have a Big/Small school championship. It would only be three weeks of playoff's, and you could play Small DI on Friday night, Big DI on Saturday night. R1 and R2 play for the Big, R3 and R4 play for the Small.
You are not "giving everyone" a championship, but you are narrowing the gap.
Stupid Idea? -
Gardens35
you'recoyotes22;1009315 wrote:..... "But your from Massillon,..... -
Al Bundy
They added a 6rd division about 17 years ago.Thinthickbigred;1009408 wrote:Maybe add a single division and go to six. Id also like them to go to fewer playoff games then we wouldnt have the watered down effect . Also we should put a multiplyer in for the highly successful programs that dominate in lower divisions . So Let me run this down . first we make it a Six division state , then we lower the playoff games to 4, and then we do a multiplyer system that somebody from MIT would probably have to doctor up . the lower divisions also have a huge problem with teams like Newark catholic in the past to Delphose St John of today to Youngstown Ursulin in D-5 and Mooney which is in D-3 and was ranked #9 in the USA a few years ago and that was when they were in D-4 . We have some work to do . the status quo is not a good system . unless ofcourse you are that 5% of schools that are benefitting from the system we have -
sherm03
Just ignore the little guy. We let him pretend that he's part of a big boy conversation. But really, it's the same as when your dad would let you "shave" by putting the shaving cream on your face and then hand you a razor with no blade.Al Bundy;1009411 wrote:They added a 6rd division about 17 years ago. -
Thinthickbigred
thats right they did . Then 7 . I think we are playing to many playoff games now though . the top 4 in each region will be enough especially if we add a division . its all a money grab anyway .Al Bundy;1009411 wrote:They added a 6rd division about 17 years ago.