Archive

Is it time for private schools to have theyre own playoffs in football

  • Thinthickbigred
    I know one thing Id love to see the Red play DSJ cause so many people think you would beat us but I do know we would beat you 9 out of 10 IMO maybe more and after that crap you did to Shadyside Id just love it ...We would hurt you bad believe me ...for that matter I am sick of that MAC confrence too bad you guys are all the way over there
  • GoChiefs
  • skank
    sherm03;604951 wrote:Alright skank...you keep mentioning the "Parochial Advantage." If there is such a great advantage that parochials have, it would stand to reason that private schools would dominate all regions a majority of the time. But, that's not the case. In fact, a private schools has played another private school for a state championship only 32 times (that's across all divisions). We have had an all-public state championship 66 times. Breakdown by division:
    D1: All private final - 8 times. All public final - 10 times.
    D2: All private final - 3 times. All public final - 18 times.
    D3: All private final - 9 times. All public final - 8 times.
    D4: All private final - 2 times. All public final - 12 times.
    D5: All private final - 5 times. All public final - 12 times.
    D6: All private final - 5 times. All public final - 8 times.

    So either a lot of teams don't know about this "PA," or it just doesn't exist. Because I would think that if there was such a great advantage for parochial schools, there would be a lot more all-private finals.

    But, I just use facts...so what do I know?

    That's very nice sherman....But, one thing you fail to mention is, let's take division II for example, you try to make it look like there is some big Public school advantage, but when I stopped counting, there were AT LEAST 9 games where Parochials played publics head to head, with an 8-1 advantage for the parochials.
  • Viking
    sherm03;605056 wrote:Care to elaborate?

    Several media outlets (the PD, Canton Rep, radio station WNIR) have all reported that "major" changes will be made this summer. The most detailed report was in the Canton Rep. It looks like the public and private schools will remain together. A complicated formula will be used to realign the schools for football (at least). IMHO, most private schools will be D III and above after all is said and done. Details are still being hashed out. It seems that a "super division" is still a possibility for schools like Iggy, St X., Mentor and other schools with very large areas from which they draw kids.

    Change will happen.
  • sherm03
    Viking;605720 wrote:Several media outlets (the PD, Canton Rep, radio station WNIR) have all reported that "major" changes will be made this summer. The most detailed report was in the Canton Rep. It looks like the public and private schools will remain together. A complicated formula will be used to realign the schools for football (at least). IMHO, most private schools will be D III and above after all is said and done. Details are still being hashed out. It seems that a "super division" is still a possibility for schools like Iggy, St X., Mentor and other schools with very large areas from which they draw kids.

    Change will happen.

    If that's the case, then it's a freaking shame.

    RIP Ohio High School Football.
  • Thinthickbigred
    They need to modify the system for sure......I dont want to see a team like DSJ playing Shadyside for the title and Ursulin should move up as well and I am sure several other fit that criteria...PLS put DSJ in D-3 ..
  • vikingcaptain82
    Viking;605720 wrote:Several media outlets (the PD, Canton Rep, radio station WNIR) have all reported that "major" changes will be made this summer. The most detailed report was in the Canton Rep. It looks like the public and private schools will remain together. A complicated formula will be used to realign the schools for football (at least). IMHO, most private schools will be D III and above after all is said and done. Details are still being hashed out. It seems that a "super division" is still a possibility for schools like Iggy, St X., Mentor and other schools with very large areas from which they draw kids.

    Change will happen.

    Certainly not schools like St. Thomas Aquinas (DV) or Canton Central Catholic (DIV). If they do, then the system is wrong.
  • Delphosfan
    Thinthickbigred;605426 wrote:I know one thing Id love to see the Red play DSJ cause so many people think you would beat us but I do know we would beat you 9 out of 10 IMO maybe more and after that crap you did to Shadyside Id just love it ...We would hurt you bad believe me ...for that matter I am sick of that MAC confrence too bad you guys are all the way over there


    9 out of 10? You're a Div III school for crying out loud, you should beat us 10 out of 10. As for Shadyside, they just weren't that good. They wouldn't finish in the top third of any small school conference around here. But at least they were able to beat an Ohio team. ;)

    Have a Merry Christmas and MAC! MAC! MAC!! :D
  • holdingout
    Thinthickbigred;605426 wrote:I know one thing Id love to see the Red play DSJ cause so many people think you would beat us but I do know we would beat you 9 out of 10 IMO maybe more and after that crap you did to Shadyside Id just love it ...We would hurt you bad believe me ...for that matter I am sick of that MAC confrence too bad you guys are all the way over there

    My $$$ is on Delphos...
  • Be Nice
    Viking...there are some coaches in central Ohio working behind the scenes and pushing the same agenda.
  • Alma_Parker
    skank;602194 wrote:[/B]

    It's called the big picture Sherlock. If someone in your town gets murdered by having their arms ripped off and being beaten to death by their own arms, and a day later, it happens in the town next to you....They're PROBABLY related.

    Holmes, I beg to differ. I and several others on here keep trying to drag you far enough away from the Massilon tree to see the forest. No matter what angle anybody takes, you ignore the specifics that don't suit you and revert to form. I've tried really hard to parse your argument. It's rambling intermittent complexity belies something very simple. Near as I can tell, despite all the sparks flying about the periphery, the core these is immutable: The playoff system should be reorganized so that Massillon Washington can be named "State Champions" of something because they have a really proud tradition and have never been able to say there were state champs since they started playing games instead of voting. Why don't you formally propose that there be a special divison, just for Massillon, and your dream can come true. And nobody from Elder or Newark Catholic or St. Henry or Ironton or Orrville or Kenton or Lake Catholic or Worthington Christian will have to change anything? That would work.
  • Alma_Parker
    Dean Wormer;602429 wrote:This guy gets it!! Congratulations on a very intelligent post.

    Amen. K N I G H T S understands what a real program can do, north or south, private or public, rich or poor, early or late in the alphabet. Kids who want to play, coaches who know how to lead, parents who let them and support them, etc etc. You can make the playoffs most years with that. Then when 2-3 really talented athletes come along in the same year, you win a region or better.
  • Alma_Parker
    sherm03;604951 wrote:Alright skank...you keep mentioning the "Parochial Advantage." If there is such a great advantage that parochials have, it would stand to reason that private schools would dominate all regions a majority of the time. But, that's not the case. In fact, a private schools has played another private school for a state championship only 32 times (that's across all divisions). We have had an all-public state championship 66 times. Breakdown by division:
    D1: All private final - 8 times. All public final - 10 times.
    D2: All private final - 3 times. All public final - 18 times.
    D3: All private final - 9 times. All public final - 8 times.
    D4: All private final - 2 times. All public final - 12 times.
    D5: All private final - 5 times. All public final - 12 times.
    D6: All private final - 5 times. All public final - 8 times.

    So either a lot of teams don't know about this "PA," or it just doesn't exist. Because I would think that if there was such a great advantage for parochial schools, there would be a lot more all-private finals.

    But, I just use facts...so what do I know?

    sherm you are the eternal champion of applying actual data to the situation; it is such a refreshing counter to the skankbrigade. then again, it won't deter them; they know in their heart that the answer for more success for the program isn't better coaching or lifting and training or less whining on the part of their fan base (think of the doubt it must put in the kids' minds to be constantly told that everyone else is out to screw them), but instead that the fix is in.
  • Alma_Parker
    Al Bundy;605034 wrote:I am a public school guy, so I am not sure who my cohorts are. I just know that your crying, whining, and excuses get old. Hopefully some day you grow up and develop a work ethic and learn that not everyone should receive a trophy for just participating.

    I'm glad to see another public school supporter among my "cohorts" who skank says are private school apologists. skank, the idea, again, is that nobody from a quality program would be as proud of winning an "almost state champion trophy / jice box" as an actual state championship trophy.
  • Alma_Parker
    Delphosfan;606069 wrote:9 out of 10? You're a Div III school for crying out loud, you should beat us 10 out of 10. As for Shadyside, they just weren't that good. They wouldn't finish in the top third of any small school conference around here. But at least they were able to beat an Ohio team. ;)

    Have a Merry Christmas and MAC! MAC! MAC!! :D

    This goes with skank proudly asserting with near-confidence that he thought Massillon Washington could beat Ironton. Probably. Most of the time. If they played at Massillon and not in the Tank.
  • Havin Fun
    To Delphosfan - here is the link to the ODE on % of handicapped students. http://www.ode.state.oh.us/GD/Templates/Pages/ODE/ODEDetail.aspx?page=3&TopicRelationID=115&ContentID=50598&Content=96758

    Look at the school year 2009-2010 report on page 5. Actual rate is exactly 15%. These kids all count in public school enrollment figures but sadly cannot compete in most cases in sports. Sorry but winning a state title in D-VI is not that difficult when you consider 90% of the public schools probably have zero chance when the season begins. Most private schools draw from a geographic region 10-20 times bigger than the average public school can draw from.
  • Al Bundy
    Havin Fun;608970 wrote:To Delphosfan - here is the link to the ODE on % of handicapped students. http://www.ode.state.oh.us/GD/Templates/Pages/ODE/ODEDetail.aspx?page=3&TopicRelationID=115&ContentID=50598&Content=96758

    Look at the school year 2009-2010 report on page 5. Actual rate is exactly 15%. These kids all count in public school enrollment figures but sadly cannot compete in most cases in sports. Sorry but winning a state title in D-VI is not that difficult when you consider 90% of the public schools probably have zero chance when the season begins. Most private schools draw from a geographic region 10-20 times bigger than the average public school can draw from.

    Any public school has the option of open enrollment that they could use to draw from anywhere in the state.
  • sherm03
    Havin Fun;608970 wrote:To Delphosfan - here is the link to the ODE on % of handicapped students. http://www.ode.state.oh.us/GD/Templates/Pages/ODE/ODEDetail.aspx?page=3&TopicRelationID=115&ContentID=50598&Content=96758

    Look at the school year 2009-2010 report on page 5. Actual rate is exactly 15%. These kids all count in public school enrollment figures but sadly cannot compete in most cases in sports. Sorry but winning a state title in D-VI is not that difficult when you consider 90% of the public schools probably have zero chance when the season begins. Most private schools draw from a geographic region 10-20 times bigger than the average public school can draw from.

    If 90% of the public schools in D4 do not have a chance when the season begins...that number wouldn't change with private schools in a different division. That number would stay the same because 90% of the public schools wouldn't beat the MAC schools.
  • skank
    Alma_Parker;607318 wrote:sherm you are the eternal champion of applying actual data to the situation; it is such a refreshing counter to the skankbrigade. then again, it won't deter them; they know in their heart that the answer for more success for the program isn't better coaching or lifting and training or less whining on the part of their fan base (think of the doubt it must put in the kids' minds to be constantly told that everyone else is out to screw them), but instead that the fix is in.

    You post this, even after I posted the fact that in AT LEAST nine other games, where privates didn't play privates....and publics didn't play publics....it was a 8-1 advantage for the privates? Oh, that's right, the parochials won because they worked harder and wanted it more....Or was it that they prayed like one of the other posters said? Either way.
  • Delphosfan
    Havin Fun;608970 wrote:To Delphosfan - here is the link to the ODE on % of handicapped students. http://www.ode.state.oh.us/GD/Templates/Pages/ODE/ODEDetail.aspx?page=3&TopicRelationID=115&ContentID=50598&Content=96758

    Look at the school year 2009-2010 report on page 5. Actual rate is exactly 15%. These kids all count in public school enrollment figures but sadly cannot compete in most cases in sports. Sorry but winning a state title in D-VI is not that difficult when you consider 90% of the public schools probably have zero chance when the season begins. Most private schools draw from a geographic region 10-20 times bigger than the average public school can draw from.
    So what exactly is "handicapped"? Do you have to be in a wheelchair? Or do you just have to have a learning disability? How many kids labeled "handicapped" play sports?

    And saying that most private schools draw from a region 10-20 times bigger than the average public school is just plain false.
  • Thinthickbigred
    Wake up public school fans !!!!! We have to start sticking together on this ..We have to ..Changes need made ...I am mad as hell because DSJ beat on a good Shadyside team like that ...In D-6 ..That is a crime to me ..and the catholic schools are beating the crap out of us and laughing it up all the way ...We attack each other all the time ..We have to start sticking together or these bullchit playoffs arent going to mean anything anymore...
  • Thinthickbigred
    Alma_Parker;607318 wrote:sherm you are the eternal champion of applying actual data to the situation; it is such a refreshing counter to the skankbrigade. then again, it won't deter them; they know in their heart that the answer for more success for the program isn't better coaching or lifting and training or less whining on the part of their fan base (think of the doubt it must put in the kids' minds to be constantly told that everyone else is out to screw them), but instead that the fix is in.

    Well even if his numbers are correct ..they proove the public school point of view ....When only 5 to 10 % of all schools are private ..Look at the numbers they dont add up ...
  • Rocket08
    The numbers add up fine, they are what they are

    Your post only proves that your comprehension ability is the problem
  • Al Bundy
    Thinthickbigred;609232 wrote:Wake up public school fans !!!!! We have to start sticking together on this ..We have to ..Changes need made ...I am mad as hell because DSJ beat on a good Shadyside team like that ...In D-6 ..That is a crime to me ..and the catholic schools are beating the crap out of us and laughing it up all the way ...We attack each other all the time ..We have to start sticking together or these bullchit playoffs arent going to mean anything anymore...

    I went to a public school, and I still feel that good programs win. You program has been better than the Catholic school in your town. If the Catholic school has this huge advantage, why is your program better?
  • sherm03
    Thinthickbigred;609237 wrote:Well even if his numbers are correct ..they proove the public school point of view ....When only 5 to 10 % of all schools are private ..Look at the numbers they dont add up ...
    Really? Please see exhibit A:
    Al Bundy;609312 wrote:I went to a public school, and I still feel that good programs win. You program has been better than the Catholic school in your town. If the Catholic school has this huge advantage, why is your program better?

    So explain it thinthick. If the private schools have such an advantage, why is Steubenville better than SCC year in and year out?