Is it time for private schools to have theyre own playoffs in football

• sherm03

  

  skank;1057188 wrote:Do your own homework.

  I've done it. There have only been 101 teams to win a state championship. 36 different private schools have won at least one. While 65 different public schools have won at least one.
  
  So that means, out of a possible 208 state titles, only about 14% of the schools have a trophy in their case.
• skank

  

  Ok then, you've completed molins assignment, but....Could you tell me what this proves? It tells me that over 1 of 4 privates have won at least 1 title, as opposed to less than 1 of 10 publics.
• sherm03

  

  skank;1057715 wrote:Ok then, you've completed molins assignment, but....Could you tell me what this proves? It tells me that over 1 of 4 privates have won at least 1 title, as opposed to less than 1 of 10 publics.

  It should show to you that the idea that every team is on a level playing field and at the the beginning of the year every team has the same shot at the playoffs is a fallacy because some teams just aren't good. Separating the playoffs won't change that. It should also show you that there are good programs, both public and private, that win multiple titles. It should show you that out of all the schools in the state, only 14% have a state title trophy. Of THAT 14%, only 35% are private.
  
  In other words, private schools that have won titles make up 4.89% of the total number of schools in the OHSAA. In addition, public schools that have won titles make up 9.09% of the total number of schools that play football.
  
  Basically...try as people do to pull the "private schools win x% of the titles while only being y% of the total schools", the fact remains that only 14% of schools (both private and public) have won a title.
  
  
  **Edit**
  
  It should also show you that separating the playoffs will not change much. And that same 9.09% of public schools that have won titles will continue to win titles. They will just be beating other public schools now instead of beating private schools on the path to winning a title.
• Dean Wormer

  sherm03;1057783 wrote:It should show to you that the idea that every team is on a level playing field and at the the beginning of the year every team has the same shot at the playoffs is a fallacy because some teams just aren't good. Separating the playoffs won't change that. It should also show you that there are good programs, both public and private, that win multiple titles. It should show you that out of all the schools in the state, only 14% have a state title trophy. Of THAT 14%, only 35% are private.
  
  In other words, private schools that have won titles make up 4.89% of the total number of schools in the OHSAA. In addition, public schools that have won titles make up 9.09% of the total number of schools that play football.
  
  Basically...try as people do to pull the "private schools win x% of the titles while only being y% of the total schools", the fact remains that only 14% of schools (both private and public) have won a title.
  
  
  **Edit**
  
  It should also show you that separating the playoffs will not change much. And that same 9.09% of public schools that have won titles will continue to win titles. They will just be beating other public schools now instead of beating private schools on the path to winning a title.

  Did you see the state report card from Massillon? You are wasting your time presenting facts and mathematical facts to support your argument because you have totally lost Skanky and Thicky. Maybe some stupid Youtube videos will be better.
• rmolin73

  

  This is a little bit more to add to the whole myth. Out of the number of private schools that have more than one title they are as follows. So there are 21 private schools that have won more than 1 title and a few of them haven't been relevant for over 20 years.
  
  Ignatius-11
  Mooney-8
  Newark Catholic-8
  Moeller-7 (last title was 26 years ago)
  Benedictine-6
  Delphos St. Johns-6
  Ursuline-4
  St. V's-4
  Elyria Catholic-3 (last title 27 years ago)
  Col. Desalles-3
  Mentor Lake Catholic-3
  St. Xavier-2
  Elder-2
  Watterson-2
  Canton CC-2
  Col. Bishop Hartley-2
  Gahanna Col Aca-2
  Alter-2
  Bishop Fenwick-2 (last title was 37 years ago)
  Tiffin Calvert-2 (last title was 30 years ago)
  Toledo St. Francis-2
  
  Public Schools with more than 1 title
  Versailles-6
  St. Henry-6
  Marion Local-5
  Marion Pleasant-3
  Buchtel-3
  Canton McKinley-3
  Cincy Princeton-3
  Germantown VV-3
  Mogadore-3
  Steubenville-3
  St. Marys Memorial-3
  C.A.P.E-3
  Coldwater-2
  Fostoria-2
  Hilliard Davidson-2
  Ironton-2
  Kenton-2
  Warren Harding-2
  West Jefferson-2
• landshark0731

  Molin, hows come Massillon isn"t on that list? Nevermind it's because they usually get knocked out of the playoffs by public schools!
• Thinthickbigred

  skank;1051610 wrote:
  Jan
  3
  
  Separation Of Public And Private School Tournaments
  
  by Bob Huelsman | Features
  Bob Huelsman
  
  Bob Huelsman is a former high school teacher, coach and administrator, serving for more than three decades at Covington High School, in Miami County. In his 13 years as head basketball coach at Covington, Huelsman won 228 games and five times guided the Buccaneers to the regional round of the state tournament. Currently, he serves as the associate athletic director at Newton High School, and treasurer for the Southwest District Athletic Board. A former member of the Ohio High School Athletic Association Board of Control, Huelsman’s broad background in athletic administration has won the respect of his peers statewide.
  CONTACT
  What to do about public and private schools tournaments? Can we just compete for a unified title, or does everyone deserve a trophy?
  
  The separation of public and private school tournaments has been written about on numerous occasions. It is still there, behind the scenes, and headed for a collision soon!
  If you recall, the superintendents in northeast Ohio (Wayne County) wanted something done about the disparity between public schools and private schools, their ability to win state championships, the level of the playing field, competitive imbalance, etc.
  These superintendents sent out a survey in late 2009 asking for input from all Ohio superintendents. The results showed that almost 70% thought there was a competitive imbalance, and 72.5% said they would support a separation of public and private school tournaments, both sanctioned by the OHSAA.
  There are 831 OHSAA member schools—700 public (84%) and 131 (16%) non-public.
  From the beginning of the 1999-2000 school year through the 2009-10 school year, there were 616 state championships. The private schools won 275 (45%) of these championships.
  Breaking this down, it looks like this:
  Football—66 state championships—31 (47%) won by non-public schools
  Volleyball—44 state championships—28 (63%) won by non-public schools
  Boys Soccer—33 state championships—15 (45%) won by non-public schools
  Girls Soccer—22 state championships—11 (50%) won by non-public schools
  Boys Basketball—44 state championships—14 (31%) won by non-public schools
  Girls Basketball—44 state championships—23 (52%) won by non-public schools
  Wrestling—30 state championships—21 (70%) won by non-public schools
  Baseball—40 state championships—20 (50%) won by non-public schools
  Softball—40 state championships—3 (1%) won by non-public schools
  Based on these statistics, it appears that there is an inequity in the OHSAA tournament structure.
  The OHSAA put off the Wayne County Superintendent Initiative by forming a committee to study the “problem”. The Competitive Balance Committee studied the “problem”, and put forth a Competitive Balance Solution that was put up for a referendum vote to the OHSAA membership. Albeit close, the Competitive Balance Solution was defeated.
  The OHSAA put it back into the hands of a sub-committee to survey the member schools to see why the issue failed, with promises to reconvene the entire Competitive Balance Committee upon completion. The meeting was scheduled for December 8, 2011.
  The sub-committee reviewed the results and made a decision to take a recommendation straight back to the OHSAA and its board of directors, and not reconvene the entire committee, as promised, on December 8, 2011. The recommendation was to forget the original competitive balance proposal and to concentrate on the Division I Football disparity in enrollment.
  This did not sit well with the Wayne County superintendents, especially because promises were not kept, and because it looked like the Competitive Balance Issue was dead on arrival. They made their voices heard when they promised to move ahead with a proposal to separate the tournaments.
  The Wayne County superintendents asked the OHSAA to place the issue of separate tournaments for public and non-public schools on the ballot for May’s OHSAA referendum issues pursuant to Articles 8-1-2 and 8-1-8 of the current OHSAA Constitution and/or Bylaws.
  Their proposals are as follows:
  Proposal #1: Separate state championship tournaments in all OHSAA sponsored sports.
  a. No divisional structure change for public schools. (The OHSAA Board of Directors will make the final determination on divisional structure.)
  b. New divisional structure for non-public schools. (The OHSAA Board of Directors will make the final determination on divisional structure.)
  Proposal #2: Public schools can only play Ohio non-public schools if the Ohio non-public school is a member of OHSAA.
  The OHSAA reacted by calling a special meeting of the original Competitive Balance Committee for Tuesday, January 31, to discuss the matter.
  The Wayne County superintendents reacted by sending a letter to the OHSAA Board of Directors, and not to the Competitive Balance Committee, stating that “it is the responsibility of the board of directors to respond, not this committee.” They want a response from the board of directors, and not waste the time of this committee. They feel they are beyond the committee at this point.
  “It is the last step before signature petitions are required to get a referendum issue on the ballot. Once again, (we) intend to hold the board of directors accountable to reply to (our) request. This is not a committee issue at this point in (our) opinion.”
  The “ball” now sits in the lap of the OHSAA Board of Directors. The question is…”What will they do with it?”
  
  WOW. Looks like when you figure the percentages, NON public schools are barely getting by, huh? (sarcasm).

  This rocks!!!
• landshark0731

  You know Thick if you don't want to lose to Mooney anymore, I believe the Ohsaa will let you move up a division at your own free will.
• sherm03

  

  Thinthickbigred;1058609 wrote:This rocks!!!

  Thick, I'll continue with my civility for the purpose of the discussion. Why do you think the idea of splitting the state championship "rocks?" We have already agreed in a previous post that both of us do not feel a state championship is something that everyone deserves. It's something that is reserved for a few that work the hardest and do the best.
  
  How can you agree with that point, but at the same time want to see the playoffs split? Splitting the playoffs basically "makes it easier" for lesser teams to win a state championship.
  
  My other question, do you feel that splitting the playoffs will allow for more parity? Or do you feel the public schools that consistently do well (i.e. Steubenville, Coldwater, Marion Local, Hilliard Davidson, etc.) will just dominate even more without private school opposition?
• landshark0731

  My biggest question is if their is indeed a split,Should public schools still have open enrollment?
• Dean Wormer

  landshark0731;1058647 wrote:My biggest question is if their is indeed a split,Should public schools still have open enrollment?

  Of course they should. Without open enrollment Skank's tigers wouldn't even be relevant. Not that they are now but they would be putrid without kids from Oregon and Canton.
• skank

  

  Dean Wormer;1059339 wrote:Of course they should. Without open enrollment Skank's tigers wouldn't even be relevant. Not that they are now but they would be putrid without kids from Oregon and Canton.

  
  
  Says the guy who's team wouldn't even exist without kids from Canfield, Warren, Austintown, Boardman, Struthers, Pennsylvania, Etc....Etc....Etc.
• sherm03

  

  skank;1059461 wrote:Says the guy who's team wouldn't even exist without kids from Canfield, Warren, Austintown, Boardman, Struthers, Pennsylvania, Etc....Etc....Etc.

  Good call. When I ask a legitimate question regarding your point of view...just ignore it. Wouldn't want to weaken your stance at all...
• skank

  

  I didn't see a question directed at me.
• Rocket08

  Here's one
  
  Why are you such an idiot?
• Rocket08

  Here's another
  
  Can you count to 8
• sherm03

  

  skank;1060199 wrote:I didn't see a question directed at me.

  Fair enough. Care you answer the question I asked to thinthick...especially since your viewpoints on the issue are similar? I'll even re-post it for you.
  

  sherm03 wrote:My other question, do you feel that splitting the playoffs will allow for more parity? Or do you feel the public schools that consistently do well (i.e. Steubenville, Coldwater, Marion Local, Hilliard Davidson, etc.) will just dominate even more without private school opposition?

• skank

  

  Rocket08;1060433 wrote:Here's one
  
  Why are you such an idiot?

  
  
  Because I disagree with you on this subject, and we all know that anyone who disagrees with you is constantly called names and made fun of, that's why.
  
  Btw, congrats on the question mark, it's really encouraging to see any type of punctuation out of you.
• skank

  

  Rocket08;1060436 wrote:Here's another
  
  Can you count to 8

  
  
  Yes I can. Congratulations on the eight recruits your team stole from someone in the Youngstown area.
• skank

  

  sherm03;1060465 wrote:Fair enough. Care you answer the question I asked to thinthick...especially since your viewpoints on the issue are similar? I'll even re-post it for you.

  
  
  Idk about more parity, but more of a chance for public schools? Yes.
  
  Let's say for instance that Canton McKinley makes the state title game, now instead of playing a St. X, or a Moeller, they play a Centerville, or a Pickerington????
  
  Take last year for example, let's say that when Medina upsets McKinley, it's in the state semi finals, that Medina team could very easily win the next week for the state championship....Unless of course they're playing a state sponsored all star team.
• Al Bundy

  skank;1060593 wrote:Unless of course they're playing a state sponsored all star team.

  Massillon didn't make it that far. Speaking of your state sponsored all star team, good luck at your upcoming combine. It sounds like you have invited some stud underclassman to come in for a workout.
• skank

  

  Al Bundy;1060600 wrote:Massillon didn't make it that far. Speaking of your state sponsored all star team, good luck at your upcoming combine. It sounds like you have invited some stud underclassman to come in for a workout.

  
  
  Nothing of intelligence to add?
  
  WOW, what a surprise.
  
  Massillon has made it that far plenty of times....Unfortunately, they have run into The University of Ignatius, and The OhisIndianaKentucky StateS University Crusaders.
• skank

  

  Al Bundy;1060600 wrote:Massillon didn't make it that far. Speaking of your state sponsored all star team, good luck at your upcoming combine. It sounds like you have invited some stud underclassman to come in for a workout.

  
  
  Btw, I'm pissed we have to hold this combine, I wish we could just HAND out athletic scholarships like YOUR school.
• landshark0731

  skank;1060609 wrote:Nothing of intelligence to add?
  
  WOW, what a surprise.
  
  Massillon has made it that far plenty of times....Unfortunately, they have run into The University of Ignatius, and The OhisIndianaKentucky StateS University Crusaders.

  Actually Stank Mass usually loses to public schools in the playoffs.
• skank

  

  landshark0731;1060615 wrote:Actually Stank Mass usually loses to public schools in the playoffs.

  
  
  Usually? They've lost to publics 11 times, and privates 8 times, I wouldn't call that USUALLY.
  
  Come on Landusky.