Is it time for private schools to have theyre own playoffs in football

• landshark0731

  skank;997133 wrote:As far as Mogadore, yes, they are good, and they do play some schools a few divisions higher than them, but as far as your comment that said, "they don't whine about private schools", and "they play privates and sometimes win and sometimes lose". Let's focus on that comment for now, shall we? Since, after all,this is a Public/Parochial thread. In the last 10 years Mogadore has scheduled 4 parochial schools, going 1-3. The three losses? 41-12....23-0....and 7-52. Now, in the playoffs, they are 2-4, that's a total of 3-7 in the last ten years. Not too good for this "small school that will take on all comers". Once again, in the last ten years, this school you are pimping, has went totally crazy and has scheduled 4 whole games against parochial schools.

  Hey Stank Ho! first off my point was that there are publics out there that just play football and dont whine like you. Now you failed to mention in this time frame that Mogadore won 1 state title and losing 2 state championships. Massillon has been to 1!!!!!!! Get Your facts straight Stank Ho! I'm done with you Stank Ho!
• Thinthickbigred

  skank;996905 wrote:Another nice article.
  
  Please read it all....But especially the highlighted words/sentences.
  
  Coach Crable denies allegations [HR][/HR]Letter details complaints
  
  By Michael D. Clark
  The Cincinnati Enquirer
  Rival public schools accuse Moeller High School — a nationally known Catholic football power that has waned recently — of two clear violations of player recruiting rules and of violating the spirit of the rules.
  Greater Miami Conference documents obtained by the Enquirer show allegations that Moeller illicitly recruited public school students with a postage-paid pamphlet soliciting personal information and through a coach's visit to a church. The schools also complained that Moeller recruited at a Pee Wee football practice, against the spirit of the Ohio High School Athletic Association's bylaws.
  The Enquirer reported earlier that Columbus-based OHSAA officials traveled Monday to both Princeton and Moeller in the initial stages of investigating the storied football program. The GMC documents, obtained this week through the Freedom of Information Act, include the letter that triggered the investigation.
  “The principals of the (GMC) view this as a very serious matter,” stated Princeton High School Principal Raymond Bauer, who is also president of the GMC's Principal Committee, in a Dec. 7 letter to OHSAA officials.
  His letter detailed two alleged recruiting instances that he said were “in clear violation of OHSAA bylaws” — the brochure “regarding the football program requesting information ... and also if they are in need of financial assistance,” and “a sport-specific flier directed at 7th and 8th grade students at (a Catholic church) which services both public and parochial schools.”
  Moeller coach Bob Crable on Thursday denied any illicit recruiting and said the GMC complained because “they are trying to protect themselves, protect their players and their districts.”
  Mr. Crable agreed that the school distributed the pamphlet and that he had arranged to speak to young players at Good Shepherd Church in Montgomery and at a Pee Wee practice in Princeton's school district.
  Moeller officials earlier said the now-discontinued pamphlets were designed only to “generate enthusiasm about Moeller” and its new coach. The color pamphlet asks young players to provide personal information such as school, team, coach, parents' name and whether they are interested in financial aid from Moeller, and to mail back the stamped card.
  GMC athletic officials from Princeton, Sycamore and Lakota West have already met with OSHAA officials. The GMC also includes football powers Colerain and Hamilton.
  Recruiting rules are meant to help competitive fairness among schools of varying resources and to guard against improper enticements of young athletes. The accusations of recruiting violations and the rare OHSAA investigation come as Moeller is rebuilding after a disappointing season. The school has won seven state championships and five mythical national championships.
  The Crusaders were 5-5 last season as three Greater Cincinnati teams — Colerain, St. Xavier and Elder — were among the nation's top 25-rated teams, a first for a single city.
  Mr. Crable said Thursday: “Yes, (the pamphlet) looks from a outsider trying to interpret the rules — and certainly from a standpoint of where Sycamore and Princeton are coming from” like a recruiting pamphlet.
  “Unfortunately, the perception is different from the intention. That's why we stopped it,” he said, referring to the school's decision to halt distribution after an initial complaint was made to the school in November.
  According to OHSAA bylaws, schools may use such pamphlets in “mass marketing,” but only if such literature also addresses other aspects of the school — such as academics — along with sports.
  There is no mention of academics in the Moeller pamphlet.
  “Where we made the mistake was ... was not including other aspects of the school,” Mr. Crable said.
  He doesn't dispute GMC officials' contention that he arranged a Sept. 24 meeting for seventh- and eighth-grade boys at Good Shepherd Church to recruit for Moeller football, but denied that was improper. However, OHSAA bylaws prohibit sports recruiting beyond the sixth grade.
  Mr. Crable also didn't dispute that he recruited 11-year-old boys at a Pee Wee football practice in Sharonville on Oct. 9. He said he distributed the football pamphlet in question at the practice.
  Though Mr. Crable's recruitment at Pee Wee football is described by GMC officials as only a violation of the spirit of the bylaws, it elicited comment from other current and former Catholic coaches.
  Terry Malone, head football coach of Badin High School in Hamilton for 44 years, and the ninth-winningest coach in history of American high school football, said any Catholic coach actively recruiting at Pee Wee football is “going over the line” because there may be public school youngsters on the team.
  Former Moeller football coach Steve Klonne, replaced in 2000 by Mr. Crable after 23 years at Moeller, agreed, saying: “I did not aggressively go to Pee Wee games to recruit. Basically, I followed the rules.”
  Mr. Crable said whether his recruiting methods are in violation “is a decision (the OHSAA) is going to have to make.”
  If the OHSAA rules against Moeller, then “we'll have to deal with that as it comes down,” he said. “But we are trying to do things the right way.”
  OHSAA officials have said if Moeller is found guilty of violating the sports organization's rules, it could face penalties ranging from fines up to $1,000, public censure, denial of participation in postseason play, suspension from the OHSAA or other penalties deemed appropriate by the OHSAA commissioner. OHSAA Commissioner Clair Muscaro said the investigation is expected to last about two weeks, but declined further comment.
  GMC officials and coaches said they would not comment on their accusations during the OHSAA investigation. Dan Andriacco, spokesman for the Archdiocese of Cincinnati, said: “If they (OHSAA) find a violation, they will levy the penalty, which we will enforce. We will cooperate in their investigation, if they need us, but I don't think they will.”
  
  
  
  Some things I noticed.
  
  "Questioned wether they would be in nedd of financial assistance". Isn't that an athletic scholarship?
  
  If the pamphlet that Crable was passing out was legal, why would they "stop" passing it out, regardless of what the, "perception" was?
  
  "However, OHSAA bylaws prohibit sports recruiting beyond the sixth grade"????
  
  Crable....recruited 11 year olds? Wow, what a tool.
  
  But my favorite was when Klonne said, "Basically, I followed the rules". BASICALLY?

  +1000 great reseach brother
• Thinthickbigred

  skank;990000 wrote:Here's a nice little article I found about St. Ignatius' "new" QB. I especially like the part about where he currently lives. "in an apartment, close to the HS." Well, at least Chuck Kyle didn't have to evict a family to make room for the Williams family. Still looks fishy to me, but that's the OHSAA/Parochial school relationship for ya.
  
  St. Ignatius QB Eric Williams fits into tradition
  
  Published: Thursday, November 24, 2011, 9:38 PM Updated: Thursday, November 24, 2011, 9:46 PM
  
  By Bob Fortuna, The Plain Dealer The Plain Dealer
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  Tim Harrison, Special to The Plain DealerSt. Ignatius quarterback Eric Williams transferred from Jesuit High in Beaverton, Ore. “This [move] was about academics and social environment, not football,” says Eric’s father, Larry, who played for both the Notre Dame Fighting Irish and the Cleveland Browns.
  Joe Pickens, Scott Mutryn, Nate Szep and Andrew Holland quarterbacked St. Ignatius to at least one of its 10 Division I state football championships.
  A win against Toledo Whitmer in Saturday's state semifinal would put Wildcats senior Eric Williams one victory away from joining that elite club, despite the fact he's not like the others. He didn't grow up in Northeast Ohio wanting to play for St. Ignatius, watching games deep into November, attending camps and learning about the program.
  Williams was an unknown in Cleveland a year ago because he was in Beaverton, Ore., busy leading Jesuit High to the state semifinals. Until January, when he enrolled at St. Ignatius, a move often viewed as ill-advised.
  "We like to get our quarterbacks when they're freshman because our system isn't easy, but that what's made Eric so remarkable," said Wildcats veteran coach Chuck Kyle. "He had to learn the system in about six months and has gotten better each week."
  Williams visited St. Ignatius two summers ago but was leery when his parents, Larry Williams and Laura Lee, suggested he transfer.
  "You never want to leave your friends, and they were also stunned because it came out of the blue," Eric Williams said.
  "But the more I looked into it, I found it intriguing because it's so hard to get away from hearing about the tradition."
  No strangers to Cleveland
  His father, Larry Williams, a California native and Notre Dame graduate, learned all about St. Ignatius when he was an offensive lineman for the Browns from 1986 to '88.
  He attended law school at Cleveland State before continuing his NFL career with the Chargers, Saints and Patriots. The family still has friends here, some of their five children have godparents in Cleveland and they always liked the area.
  "This [move] was about academics and social environment, not football," said Larry Williams. "If this was about football, we would have looked into my alma mater [Mater Dei]."
  Williams' parents believed he wasn't being challenged enough in the classroom, and they weren't happy with his development at Jesuit High. The family cleared the transfer with the Ohio High School Athletic Association, and Williams moved and enrolled in January.
  He lives in an apartment close to the high school with his mom and older siblings, Kristin and Sean. His dad, the athletic director at the University of Portland, and younger brother, Louis, remained in Oregon. Louis, an eighth-grader and outstanding golfer, toured St. Ignatius a couple of months ago and is considering a transfer.
  "It can be challenging, at times, but my dad and Louis are a big, big part of my daily life," said Williams, who mentioned he gets his competitive spirit from his mom, who was an All-American and national-champion tennis player at Notre Dame. "We talk a lot, every day, and they've been to a lot of my games, so it's like they're here."
  Successful transition
  Williams has adjusted well to a new town, new school, new classmates, new teammates and a new system, while playing a high-profile position in a well-documented program.
  In the classroom, he received his first B ever. It was in pre-calculus.
  "I was a little shocked, but math classes here are definitely more challenging," said Williams, who is also a basketball player. "Even now, I have a B-plus in calculus that I'm trying to get up to an A-minus."
  Wide receiver Jake Mooney just laughed: "I celebrate when I get a B in anything."
  Williams and his receivers wasted no time getting acquainted.
  "Tim McCoy, Blake Thomas, Conor Hennessey, Eric and me worked out three times a week in the off-season, running routes and getting our timing down," Mooney said.
  Safety Mike Svetina noticed Williams was very quiet when he first arrived.
  "Anyone in that position would be hesitant at first," Svetina said. "When you're the QB at Ignatius, you have to be a leader, whether you want to be or not."
  A good sense of humor is always a plus, too.
  "Eric loves it when we call him 'E-Willy,' " McCoy said.
  Williams came from a program where handing off the ball or running with it was the norm, so the Wildcats' system tested his mental toughness and capacity.
  "Once I got over the initial shock, it really didn't take long to understand it," said Williams, who has scholarship offers from Cincinnati, Toledo and Eastern Michigan and is being recruited by Yale and Harvard. "The coaches were really good at explaining it and getting me to comprehend all the schemes against certain defenses.
  "The biggest adjustment is getting used to the personnel, and I'm still not where I want to be with the receivers, timing-wise."
  St. Ignatius quarterbacks are groomed to read defenses, especially secondaries, so they know what receivers will be open and where. Williams faced more complex defenses as the season progressed and thanks assistant coach Elvis Grbac for picking up the finer points of the game.
  "You want a quarterback who plays other sports because that means they're athletes," said Grbac, a former NFL quarterback. "Eric's not one-dimensional but a lot of defenses we face don't scheme to counter his running ability, and that makes him even more dangerous.
  "He's got a good feel for the pocket and makes correct reads while running or rolling out."
  Williams' tight spirals, which McCoy calls "the softest and easiest balls to catch," has resulted in 1,760 yards and 19 touchdowns -- but also nine interceptions.
  Life as an Ignatius QB
  Hearing people talk about the mystique surrounding St. Ignatius quarterbacks is one thing. Experiencing it is another, and Williams didn't grasp the full gist of it until the season-opening kickoff.
  "I had no idea how much an impact the quarterback makes on the St. Ignatius community," Williams said. "Everyone pays attention to football here, not just the players."
  He got the chance to meet plenty of the former players during the Wildcats' practice on Thanksgiving morning, when former lettermen return and watch from the sidelines.
  He constantly meets young children who grow up wanting to wear the yellow helmet with a blue Cat's paws on the side.
  Williams never imagined getting so deep into the postseason in such a short time, but he remembers his teammates chanting, "Eleven and 11" -- winning the school's 11th state title in the year 2011 -- back in the spring.
  "To now see it become a real possibility, it's cool to see all the guys get riled up about it," he said.
  Longtime quarterbacks coach Nick Restifo likes Williams' mentality.
  "He doesn't have a favorite receiver, just throws to the open man," said Restifo, skimming the list of numerous Wildcats players who have snagged a pass or two.
  It's the only way to play quarterback at St. Ignatius, according to Williams.
  "You can't survive here with a big ego because there are no stars," he said. "We all need to know [that] when someone has to step up, someone does, and it doesn't matter who it is.
  "And when that person does, we let them take over the game."

  More outstanding work . more great proof
• Thinthickbigred

  tsst_fballfan;564199 wrote:Just make the privates figures match their geographical area. On another thread an Ursuline fan said they get kids from a 20 mile radius. Make their divisional position match the population from that 20 mile radius. I am guessing in Youngstown that easily makes them D1. But a rural private school would not move to D1 because the geographical population they draw from would be far less in most cases.

  +10
• Rocket08

  +10 dickhead?
  
  Under this plan Steubenville will add the entire state of West Virginia
  
  IDIOT
  
  +11
• rmolin73

  

  So let me get this straight. You clowns are saying that private schools recruit without penalty and that has been your stance for pretty much a year. But you post information from 9 years ago where they were penalized and fined. You guys are bigger dumb asses than I thought.
• genghis dong

  sherm03;997244 wrote:Hey Al...since skank's a ****, here's the info. From what I found, they were cited for recruiting...fined $1,000 and put on probation.
  
  http://cincinnati.com/preps/2002/02/05/pre_moeller_cited_for.html
  
  Was that so hard skank? No need to be a **** at all times.

  Yes he does sherm. I like how he acted like this was breaking news. Then acted like nothing happened to Moeller, and the OHSAA just turned a blind eye. I have also heard about 100 times from thinthick that it's impossible to catch the private schools cheating. You two are total dipshits
• landshark0731

  Goodluck to Mooney today! Bring home number 8. show em what northeast ohio football is all about!
• skank

  

  landshark0731;997596 wrote:Goodluck to Mooney today! Bring home number 8. show em what northeast ohio football is all about!

  
  
  No answer? All I want to know is why they don't schedule those three schools, or schools like them size wise.
  
  That's all. Simple question.
  
  And to the fine gentleman who asked why Massillon hasn't, probably because we were too busy playing Moeller, Ignatius, Elder, McKinley, Mentor....Etc.
  
  Come on shark, let's hear it.
• Dean Wormer

  skank;997638 wrote:No answer? All I want to know is why they don't schedule those three schools, or schools like them size wise.
  
  That's all. Simple question.
  
  And to the fine gentleman who asked why Massillon hasn't, probably because we were too busy playing Moeller, Ignatius, Elder, McKinley, Mentor....Etc.
  
  Come on shark, let's hear it.

  And losing to Moeller, Ignatius, Elder, McKinley, Mentor, etc. Play little DIII Mooney and DV Ursuline. Of course you will have to leave Massillon every other year and you guys don't like that. Now do you?
• landshark0731

  Massillon Washington 2011
  8/25 H Buchtel (6-4) [3:9] W 31-6
  9/1 H GlenOak (9-2) [1:2] L 21-22
  9/9 H Maumee (7-3) [2:6] W 49-14
  9/16 H Howard D. Woodson (DC) (6-4) [2:0] W 35-14
  9/23 H Firestone (5-5) [2:5] W 27-13
  9/30 A Archbishop Hoban (1-9) [3:9] W 38-16
  10/7 H Red Lion Christian Academy (DE) (4-5) [5:0] W 37-14
  10/13 H Warren G Harding (2-8) [1:1] W 24-7
  10/21 A Steubenville (11-1) [3:11] L 7-24
  10/29 A Canton McKinley (9-3) [1:2] L 20-23
  
  Yep an elite program who schedules DOWN!!!!
• landshark0731

  Is a shame that a d6 school played as many d3 schools as the almighty D1 Bengals!
• Thinthickbigred

  landshark0731;997655 wrote:Massillon Washington 2011
  8/25 H Buchtel (6-4) [3:9] W 31-6
  9/1 H GlenOak (9-2) [1:2] L 21-22
  9/9 H Maumee (7-3) [2:6] W 49-14
  9/16 H Howard D. Woodson (DC) (6-4) [2:0] W 35-14
  9/23 H Firestone (5-5) [2:5] W 27-13
  9/30 A Archbishop Hoban (1-9) [3:9] W 38-16
  10/7 H Red Lion Christian Academy (DE) (4-5) [5:0] W 37-14
  10/13 H Warren G Harding (2-8) [1:1] W 24-7
  10/21 A Steubenville (11-1) [3:11] L 7-24
  10/29 A Canton McKinley (9-3) [1:2] L 20-23
  
  Yep an elite program who schedules DOWN!!!!

  That is an outstanding schedule numbnuts.. How many times is WGH 2-8 and that is a rivalry and how many times is Hoban 1-9 and plays a monster schedule .. You are delusional . It is one of the best schedules in the state . Not the best but guess what in some years it could end up being the best . look at all the teams on that schedule who have state titles and runners up trophies
• Thinthickbigred

  tsst_fballfan;564510 wrote:Although I understand the logic I would not want to adversely affect the kids. They are the only innocent part of this. I fault the OHSAA for providing the loopholes and the schools for abusing the loopholes. That's where the changes need made. I have said before if I lived in Youngstown my kids would go to Mooney. I still wouldn't agree with the athletic guidelines set forth by the OHSAA and used to the fullest extent by privates.

  yep +1:thumbup:
• Thinthickbigred

  oh yeah!!;565306 wrote:i have witnessed the ursuline boys upclose first hand and i would just like to say they are extremly talented, but i sure hope they went to confession for some of the comments and things why were saying during pregame..... ursuline is a great team one that has no business being in d5 but there is ntohing you can do so it is what it is.....best of luck to the remaining teams in the playoffs

  yep
• Thinthickbigred

  justcompete;565814 wrote:If you notice, 3-4 schools are the only ones being mentioned on here. How about all of the schools (public & private) that are playing by the rules. How can you lump them in with seperation or a multiplier? I am sitting in Columbus and the Catholic schools each draw from certain Parishes and the public schools stay in their limits.
  If you want to see a great model, look at Watterson and the success they enjoy. They draw kids from Hilliard, Upper Arlington, Dublin, Worthington who each also enjoy success. No recruiting and excellent academics.
  My question is, what would a Catholic kid do from a community like Salem? The closest school they could attend would be in Louisville or Youngstown. Would you tell him or her they can't play sports because of where they live? Not fair.

  no I would not . as long as its not just the kid that can carry the rock at 6 yards a clip and they let in the girl with dislexia as well then ok
• Thinthickbigred

  Viking;569176 wrote:It could be a clean sweep this year for the private schools: D I=St. Ed's, D II=Mentor Lake Catholic (a little shaky). D III=Columbus Watterson, D IV=Kettering Alter, D V=Youngstown Ursuline, D VI=Delphos St. John

  even with two state titles this year it is 33% and they are only 5 % of the toTAL SCHOOLS
• sherm03

  

  Thinthickbigred;997753 wrote:even with two state titles this year it is 33% and they are only 5 % of the toTAL SCHOOLS

  I love that this number keeps shrinking. Now private schools are only 5%? Before, it was 12%...then 10%. Now it's 5%.
  
  I can skew the numbers however I want, too. This weekend, less than 1% of the schools will win 100% of the titles. That's not fair...
• Al Bundy

  Thinthickbigred;997753 wrote:even with two state titles this year it is 33% and they are only 5 % of the toTAL SCHOOLS

  Why don't we play the games before awarding state titles? Just because you are not much of a competitor, it doesn't mean that the kids playing against Mooney and St. Ignatius are afraid to compete this week.
• genghis dong

  Just saw a preview of Shawnee. They have one lineman 6'4" 290 and another 6'5" 275. Those kids must have been recruited. Right thinthick? You can't have kids like that unless you recruit?
• rmolin73

  

  Thinthickbigred;997739 wrote:That is an outstanding schedule numbnuts.. How many times is WGH 2-8 and that is a rivalry and how many times is Hoban 1-9 and plays a monster schedule .. You are delusional . It is one of the best schedules in the state . Not the best but guess what in some years it could end up being the best . look at all the teams on that schedule who have state titles and runners up trophies

  Harding hasn't been competetive for years and Hoban is a joke. But keep stroking skankles. One of the best schedules in the state get out of here.
• skank

  

  Dean Wormer;997654 wrote:And losing to Moeller, Ignatius, Elder, McKinley, Mentor, etc. Play little DIII Mooney and DV Ursuline. Of course you will have to leave Massillon every other year and you guys don't like that. Now do you?

  
  
  Wrong again, we are 5-0 all time vs Elder, the last being in 05, hold the all time series lead with McKinley, won the last two we've played against Mentor, and I believe we've split with Moeller over the last 4 games. Ignatius, they've owned us, but we did get em once. So, nice try. try again.
• skank

  

  genghis dong;997535 wrote:Yes he does sherm. I like how he acted like this was breaking news. Then acted like nothing happened to Moeller, and the OHSAA just turned a blind eye. I have also heard about 100 times from thinthick that it's impossible to catch the private schools cheating. You two are total dipshits

  
  
  Ok, a $1,000 fine for a football school like Moeller is nothing, (boosters), Probation? (slap on the wrist). Public censure? What good does that do. Moeller was allowed to, and DID participate in the playoffs in 2003, 2004 & 2005. So if you want to tell me some rich guy paying their fine for them, the OHSAA saying, "Don't do this again" (wink wink), and public embarrasment is a punishment, then you fellas are WAY more dumb than I thought.
• skank

  

  rmolin73;997526 wrote:So let me get this straight. You clowns are saying that private schools recruit without penalty and that has been your stance for pretty much a year. But you post information from 9 years ago where they were penalized and fined. You guys are bigger dumb asses than I thought.

  
  
  Read the article closer....You CAN read can't you?
• skank

  

  genghis dong;997535 wrote:Yes he does sherm. I like how he acted like this was breaking news. Then acted like nothing happened to Moeller, and the OHSAA just turned a blind eye. I have also heard about 100 times from thinthick that it's impossible to catch the private schools cheating. You two are total dipshits

  
  
  Never said it was breaking news, climb out from under sherms desk now and then and read the post for yourself.
  
  Haha, it's NEVER impossible to catch em, punishing them on the other hand, that's a different story....Obviously.
  
  READ THE ARTICLE CLOSER.